Vance lost us that game

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I hate having to go straight to bed at 12:30 after a game like this. I couldn't sleep. I was so pissed off and couldn't stop going over all the ways we could have won the game. Must have been 3am before I got any sleep.

Frankly I'm amazed by how much rope Vance is getting on here from some because he was missing an average CB2 and a slot corner that played 51 of 82 snaps in his last game.

Murphy has been playing well, but Vance had Thompson back and Simmons playing more snaps. Kirkpatrick has been average and shouldn't be tough to replace with little drop off. Vance failed there before the game by calling up Whittaker instead of Amukamara.

Let's be clear. Joseph's game plan stunk.

He's playing a rookie in his 2nd game. Missing the starting and backup RB and with a rookie LT coming back from injury. And he barely blitzed. He just rushed 4 four on most downs.

If your weakened at DB then you take them out of the game and stop the QB throwing comfortably. Especially when you know their run game is dead.

When he did blitz it largely worked, which made the failure to do it more often all the more confusing. Especially in the first half, where Vance just sat off and let Tua pick us off and get comfortable.

Unforgivable. Any DC in football would have been coming into that game with a heavy blitz game plan.

Of course, ultimately Kliff is the HC. He decides what happens on both sides of the ball and the buck stops with him for letting Vance play that way.

But thats all the blame Kliff should be getting. I'm also surprised how much anti Kliff there is on here today. We put up 31 points on a defense averaging 18. Sub 15 with both starting corners.

If you said to me pre game we would score 31 then I'd say "Thank you very much, 31 should win us the game easily".

Was there some questionable play calls? Sure. As Harry said there were too many run on 2nd and 8 for my liking which left us with too many 3rd and 4th down conversions but we generally got them and yes, the final drive was poor after a nice 35 yard pass to Kirk he went too conservative and tried to be smart running down the clock before we were inside comfortable FG range. We needed 10 more yards before he did that.

But we never should have been in that position. Even with the Fumble return Miami should not have score more than 24. That was not a good offense.
 

juza76

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He needs to go
Isnt a good a coach, and has been bad in the past, just a short stint with the dolphins when he got the interim head coach job, but also there wasn't nothing special
I questioned also his ability to use the better players, saw some scrubs getting lot of sction
Then we see gardeck playing few snaps getting a couple of sacks and pressure and, from that point rarely used
Deionte Thompson was playing enough well, then benched, i know Jalen is the starter, but why I have to see the Kevin peterson, the Whitaker?
Simmons was pretty hot yesterday, and he spent most of the game in the bench

I think actually with tallejo and Simmons at ILB we would be better

Hicks and Campbell is the worst starting ILB duo in the league, a combination of slowness and effortless

Defensive line is bad, but isn't just his fault, they don't put any pressure
 
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I've seen quite a bit of "Vance doesn't have the players" kind of excuses the last couple of days. That doesn't wash for me. Good coaches make players better. If you have to rely on having A1 players then your not much of a coach.

Look at the Rams. The Rams are actually giving away the least amount of points per opposition drive this year.

Their ILB's are Micah Kyzer and Kenny Young. Their starting D line includes Ebukam, Joseph-Day and the remains of Leonard Floyd. Their CB2 is Troy Hill.

Outside of Donald and Ramsey it's hardly a team of household names. Their depth at every position is a guy you never heard of.

Yet they are,

2nd in yards per game
3rd in 3rd down conversions allowed
5th in rushing yards allowed
2nd in passing yards allowed
2nd in points allowed per game

With a bunch of guys nobody here could mention more than 4 or 5 of and a DC in his first year.
 

Chopper0080

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As Vance says, the plays were his, but the effort is on the players. The defense played with the requisite amount of effort on Sunday. It was Vance's system and gameplan which were deficient. If we decide to keep Vance, we will need to add more defensive talent because Vance and his scheme will not elevate mediocre players.
 

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As Vance says, the plays were his, but the effort is on the players. The defense played with the requisite amount of effort on Sunday. It was Vance's system and gameplan which were deficient. If we decide to keep Vance, we will need to add more defensive talent because Vance and his scheme will not elevate mediocre players.
I agree to an extent, but he isn't the one that jumped offsides two times in a row, or grabbed Tua's facemask on the play that would have forced them in to 3rd and forever. Also the play where he schemed Campbell to have a free run at Tua only to run right past him followed by Baker completely whiffing in the open field.

Again this game has a completely different outcome if those things don't happen. That is 2 scoring drives that would have been punts had the players executed.
 

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The thing I would really like VJ to explain is why he decided to sit back and wait for a rookie QB to make a mistake. I mean it appeared to me that VJ was just licking his chop like a lion waiting for the meat to come across his path. Force the kid into them, make him make quick decisions and your mistakes will come. Sit back, and I got to hand it to the rookie, he was cool as a cucumber.
 
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As Vance says, the plays were his, but the effort is on the players. The defense played with the requisite amount of effort on Sunday. It was Vance's system and gameplan which were deficient. If we decide to keep Vance, we will need to add more defensive talent because Vance and his scheme will not elevate mediocre players.

What's indefensible is it was such a simple game plan. Even all us schlubs here knew the game plan to use was the same one we used in Q4 vs the Seahawks. Lot's of blitzes, especially safeties and linebackers, make the rookie uncomfortable and force errors. Simple.

Instead we rushed 4, gave the DB's big cushions and played soft. It was complete crap. The exact opposite to what any DC with a brain cell would do.
 
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I agree to an extent, but he isn't the one that jumped offsides two times in a row, or grabbed Tua's facemask on the play that would have forced them in to 3rd and forever. Also the play where he schemed Campbell to have a free run at Tua only to run right past him followed by Baker completely whiffing in the open field.

Again this game has a completely different outcome if those things don't happen. That is 2 scoring drives that would have been punts had the players executed.

The problem is those things happened too late. The Campbell blitz and miss for example. We should have been doing that in Q1, not Q4. There's no point doing things to stop the QB in Q4 when you already let them put up 24 points.

You unsettle the QB early, put them behind the chains, have Tua having to chase the game and force throws from a 2 score deficit. Then mistakes happen and you win easily.

What you don't do it let the rookie get comfortable and do exactly what he wants to do.
 

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What you don't do it let the rookie get comfortable and do exactly what he wants to do.

Exactly. You blitz early to throw him off of his game. He would have been shell shocked with the 0-6-5 defense but they saved it until the 2nd half.

Vance only seems to have 1 good quarter a game, 1 below average one, and 2 absolutely dreadful ones.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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The problem is those things happened too late. The Campbell blitz and miss for example. We should have been doing that in Q1, not Q4. There's no point doing things to stop the QB in Q4 when you already let them put up 24 points.

You unsettle the QB early, put them behind the chains, have Tua having to chase the game and force throws from a 2 score deficit. Then mistakes happen and you win easily.

What you don't do it let the rookie get comfortable and do exactly what he wants to do.
The offsides and the Tua face mask penalty happened early if I remember correctly (all on their first TD drive).

Also regardless of when these things happened it is still examples of Vance getting the team into good positions only for the players to make mistakes.

Everything I mentioned happened on TD drives, one early in the game and one late. They only had 3 TD drives so those mistakes were big. We stop one of those drives and we probably would have won the game.
 
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The offsides and the Tua face mask penalty happened early if I remember correctly (all on their first TD drive).

Also regardless of when these things happened it is still examples of Vance getting the team into good positions only for the players to make mistakes.

Everything I mentioned happened on TD drives, one early in the game and one late. They only had 3 TD drives so those mistakes were big. We stop one of those drives and we probably would have won the game.

Did Miami even punt? I don't recall them having to punt once.
 

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Our defense sucks period. Getting rid of VJ and keeping the same players will change nothing.
 

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I just rewatched all 60 minutes and came away with a different take:

The missed FG cost us the game. (Spin it any way you want - the points don't lie)..

The "scoop & score" 1Q takeaway put us in a hole we couldn't dig our way out of.

KK wound up in a play calling rut (How many times did he follow up an unsuccessfult running play with another unsuccessful running play)?

All of these problems had to do with the offense. But cut the offense some slack - they scored more than 31 pts against the Leagues top defense.

We didn't play as sucky as I originally thought.
 

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We were missing 6 starters if you count Murphey but I had faith VJ would blitz like the times it worked out great. Then he reverts back to conservative.
 

GimmedaBall

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When the Cards signed VJ, I wandered over to the Denver Broncos fan forum and local sports pages and looked at some of the comments when he was head coach for them. I guess MB and SK didn't do the same---everything being complained about now that he is our DC were called out by Bronco fans when he was their HC.
 

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The thing I would really like VJ to explain is why he decided to sit back and wait for a rookie QB to make a mistake. I mean it appeared to me that VJ was just licking his chop like a lion waiting for the meat to come across his path. Force the kid into them, make him make quick decisions and your mistakes will come. Sit back, and I got to hand it to the rookie, he was cool as a cucumber.

He out thunk himself because he was afraid of the practice squad corners not having help. That’s where a real HC comes in and makes aggressive adjustments. It’s what McVay would do.
 
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Totally disagree. I think the have the talent but are still not on the same page.

This.

I can't tell you how many football teams (soccer) that have sucked over the years in the EPL only for a coaching change to see them completely transform.

We have the talent, but coaching matters. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you aren't using it right and your game plan sucks then it doesn't matter.
 
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