Urban Asked This Question

Gee!

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Karlos Dansby and Antrel Rolle were always possible to leave, especially Dansby. The Cards offered big money to both, and both passed. Somewhat strange, and in the end, we’ll never be exactly sure why each made the decisions they did.

Are you kidding me Urban? It was the money.. Plain and simple, done deal..


Now, I could care less that these two guys left because I have faith in the Cards upper brass.. But this kind of behavior is exactly what is gonna turn of NFL fans.. When they see their players talk big game about loving where they came from (current team), only to go to the highest bidder.. How dumb do these players think we are? Dansby wanted a "winning" team.. Ya right.. He wanted the biggest check.. Rolle is now the highest paid FS.. If that dont make you think something is wrong, nothing will..

What I see as a fan is nothing I can connect with.. And eventually the players greed will doom the players that come after them, because we wont be watching.. Unlike the players that came before these guys money grabbing.. They actually tried to build a system for these current guys to prosper..

Again.. I could care less about Dansby and Rolle leaving.. Just dont think they are worth what they got.. And Calvin Pace too.. But in this me me me world.. Who has time to try to take care of the next man?

The gladiators in the roman colisieum are a thing of the past, and one day the NFL will be too..
 

Shane

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Are you kidding me Urban? It was the money.. Plain and simple, done deal..


Now, I could care less that these two guys left because I have faith in the Cards upper brass.. But this kind of behavior is exactly what is gonna turn of NFL fans.. When they see their players talk big game about loving where they came from (current team), only to go to the highest bidder.. How dumb do these players think we are? Dansby wanted a "winning" team.. Ya right.. He wanted the biggest check.. Rolle is now the highest paid FS.. If that dont make you think something is wrong, nothing will..

What I see as a fan is nothing I can connect with.. And eventually the players greed will doom the players that come after them, because we wont be watching.. Unlike the players that came before these guys money grabbing.. They actually tried to build a system for these current guys to prosper..

Again.. I could care less about Dansby and Rolle leaving.. Just dont think they are worth what they got.. And Calvin Pace too.. But in this me me me world.. Who has time to try to take care of the next man?

The gladiators in the roman colisieum are a thing of the past, and one day the NFL will be too..

Apparently our contracts that we offered were pretty much equal to what they signed. So the question is valid.
 

lauraw

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To me, Rolle and Dansby can go to hell; Hope they both miss games with syphyllis[?] next year...
 

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I think it's a very fair question, i was thinking about it myself. Why would you want to pack up all your belongings, move your families, for a job across country that pays pretty much the same amount of money? Give or take some change, but who cares on a huge amount like that.

Are they like rats leaving a sinking ship? Do they know what's about to happen without Kurt? Don't wanna turn this into a 'Matt-bashing' post, but they're much more aware of Leinart's abilities than us fans from the sidelines.

I'm not really concerned about losing the players we've lost. Some losses will hurt of course, but in the end we needed change to get better. But the fact that these guys opted to go away despite getting offered virtually the same deals is worrying me.

I'm worried!
 

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I think it's a very fair question, i was thinking about it myself. Why would you want to pack up all your belongings, move your families, for a job across country that pays pretty much the same amount of money? Give or take some change, but who cares on a huge amount like that.

Are they like rats leaving a sinking ship? Do they know what's about to happen without Kurt? Don't wanna turn this into a 'Matt-bashing' post, but they're much more aware of Leinart's abilities than us fans from the sidelines.

I'm not really concerned about losing the players we've lost. Some losses will hurt of course, but in the end we needed change to get better. But the fact that these guys opted to go away despite getting offered virtually the same deals is worrying me.

I'm worried!

If we offered Rolle 6 million per he is getting a solid (extra) chunk of change signing in NYG. Dansby's case is intriguing because it seems like we offered him a very similar deal. It may have only amounted to a million or two, but that is a lot of money. Rolle got a payday he couldn't turn down, Dansby..who knows. Maybe the Miami contract had more guaranteed money, I have no idea. These guys know their career could end on any given sunday, so they cash in when they can. From a fans perspective it pisses you off, but I can't act like I wouldn't do the same thing if I was in their shoes. Show me the $$$$$$$$$$$$
 

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I am having a very hard time trying to find fault with the Cardinal's organization. The offers they made to Rolle and to Dansby were more than (fair). The only question in my mind is, did they wait too long to make those offers? If so, did that have an effect on the two leaving.

So far as the Dansby money, they were right there with Miami. Dansby CHOSE to take the new money and run. WHY????? That is a question that our guys will have to get resolved. That may only come with frank discussion with Dansby and his agent. Was the choice to go strictly a personal choice by Dansby, or do we have some flaw in our organization that caused him to leave?

Rolle, in my opinion, is another completely different story. Greed certainly played a part in this signing, but I don't fault Graves, or even Rolle for this one. To me, the Giants have failed the biggest test this off season. Despite the tough economy. Despite the unsettled future of the NFL and the collective bargaining agreement. The Giants could not keep themselves from offering to pay unheard of money to a slightly better than average Free Safety. Remember, the reason Rolle is not a CB, is that he cannot cover. That is why he is playing safety, because he has a weakness built into his game. Yet, with all these negatives out in the open, the Giants pony-up, and pay him more than any other safety in the league. THIS, AT A TIME WHEN THE LEAGUE IS CONSIDERING WORK STOPPAGE IN ORDER TO REGAIN PHYSCAL RESPONSIBILITY.

I don't fault Graves for that. Nor do I fault Rolle or his agent. The REAL greed came on the part of the Giants, and at this time in history, when league owners should be showing restraint, this is a terrible sign to the world. They can't apparently even control themselves. I alluded to this very same flaw in discussion on this board during the past season, when the CBA and work stoppage were being discussed. I said then, that the real test to stabilizing the phiscal responsibility of the league would be the owners inability to control themselves. Unfortunately this seems again to be the case.
 
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WisconsinCard

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Are you kidding me Urban? It was the money.. Plain and simple, done deal..


Now, I could care less that these two guys left because I have faith in the Cards upper brass.. But this kind of behavior is exactly what is gonna turn of NFL fans.. When they see their players talk big game about loving where they came from (current team), only to go to the highest bidder.. How dumb do these players think we are? Dansby wanted a "winning" team.. Ya right.. He wanted the biggest check.. Rolle is now the highest paid FS.. If that dont make you think something is wrong, nothing will..

What I see as a fan is nothing I can connect with.. And eventually the players greed will doom the players that come after them, because we wont be watching.. Unlike the players that came before these guys money grabbing.. They actually tried to build a system for these current guys to prosper..

Again.. I could care less about Dansby and Rolle leaving.. Just dont think they are worth what they got.. And Calvin Pace too.. But in this me me me world.. Who has time to try to take care of the next man?

The gladiators in the roman colisieum are a thing of the past, and one day the NFL will be too..

If we offered Rolle 6 million per he is getting a solid (extra) chunk of change signing in NYG. Dansby's case is intriguing because it seems like we offered him a very similar deal. It may have only amounted to a million or two, but that is a lot of money. Rolle got a payday he couldn't turn down, Dansby..who knows. Maybe the Miami contract had more guaranteed money, I have no idea. These guys know their career could end on any given sunday, so they cash in when they can. From a fans perspective it pisses you off, but I can't act like I wouldn't do the same thing if I was in their shoes. Show me the $$$$$$$$$$$$

Agree with both of you, and just another reason why I cheer for the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.
 

CardsFan88

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Sorry greed isn't an excuse, not in business, not in the NFL.

Greed isn't good. Never is. Never has been.

Wanting more isn't greed. Wanting to be compensated fairly, or richly isn't greed. But 43 million instead of say 40 million IS greed. I don't care what people say, you still would make 40 million. If that isn't enough to keep you well for the rest of your life, guess what, 43 won't be either.

Now it's legal for people to be greedy, but let's at least quit trying to say, 'no they're not greedy', and that it is 'ok'. It isn't. It never has been. When greed rules the roost, everything fails eventually. Stock market, economy, even eventually the NFL. We get to be in a position to watch most of these fail hard, and it's only getting started.

I for one wouldn't be doing the same thing. I for one would take less, because money, has never bought me happiness. I'm pretty sure however much 'happiness' 43 million could get me, 40 would too.

These guys have to make it last the rest of their lives. Well, we manage just fine without it. We don't get millions of dollars, nor get the type of security they do.

Well they do, so they're lucky. Yep, and they get it whether they sign for 40 or 43.

Now of course if we hyperinflate, again, the difference between 40-43 million is....nothing. So either way you are always going to be fine, or the contract you signed with the highest bidder, still wasn't enough.

I personally think Rhodes>Rolle and together Rhodes+Porter would be > than Rolle+Dansby. Plus we'd spend less than half.

Greed is greed, and we don't need to structure EVERYTHING around us. Or else, greed will steal everything from us, if it hasn't already....just wait, it's about to.

So to players or anybody who thinks this type of action is normal, nope, it's ABNORMAL. Since time began normal sane people realized unfettered greed led to ruin. It's almost built into everybody. Except we forgot that. Now we think if everyone isn't greedy, we're not American. Wrong. American wasn't founded on greed. It was founded on fair compensation.

Besides someone should tell these guys they are holding MONETARY dollars. Which are basically worthless. Not yet, but soon. But hey, it was greed that put us on a monetary system so it must be good right?

We all have different barometers of what's right and what's wrong, but everyone consistently ignoring what's right, simply to get more money, eventually has consequences. This is how we use greed, and boy is that not good.

If there's one problem it isn't that we desire fair compensation, it's that we rely solely on greed to find it. That by definition isn't free market. But it is the driving force of every high paid job in the country. No, it isn't good.

Fair compensation is everyone's right, and fair compensation was never found through greed. The desire for fair compensation isn't greed. The desire for excess compensation is. There is a dividing line, yet as a society we lumped both together to our peril. NFL salaries are just a symptom of an out of whack system. I won't blame NFL salaries because they're just following other idiots leads.
 

football karma

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Sando pointed something out prior to the start of free agency that turned out to be quite prescient --

regarding Rolle: the Cards wouldn't give what he had asked and reportedly sought in free agency. Sando said that if the "market" turns out to be indeed lower, its easier psychologically to accept the lower number from somebody new than it is to go back to your original team and basically admit that they were right. I think this is true of Dansby as well.
 

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If we offered Rolle 6 million per he is getting a solid (extra) chunk of change signing in NYG. Dansby's case is intriguing because it seems like we offered him a very similar deal. It may have only amounted to a million or two, but that is a lot of money. Rolle got a payday he couldn't turn down, Dansby..who knows. Maybe the Miami contract had more guaranteed money, I have no idea. These guys know their career could end on any given sunday, so they cash in when they can. From a fans perspective it pisses you off, but I can't act like I wouldn't do the same thing if I was in their shoes. Show me the $$$$$$$$$$$$

For Dansby, the same pay in AZ is worth 5-10% more in Miami. State Taxes......
 

40yearfan

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I am having a very hard time trying to find fault with the Cardinal's organization. The offers they made to Rolle and to Dansby were more than (fair). The only question in my mind is, did they wait too long to make those offers? If so, did that have an effect on the two leaving.

So far as the Dansby money, they were right there with Miami. Dansby CHOSE to take the new money and run. WHY????? That is a question that our guys will have to get resolved. That may only come with frank discussion with Dansby and his agent. Was the choice to go strictly a personal choice by Dansby, or do we have some flaw in our organization that caused him to leave?

Rolle, in my opinion, is another completely different story. Greed certainly played a part in this signing, but I don't fault Graves, or even Rolle for this one. To me, the Giants have failed the biggest test this off season. Despite the tough economy. Despite the unsettled future of the NFL and the collective bargaining agreement. The Giants could not keep themselves from offering to pay unheard of money to a slightly better than average Free Safety. Remember, the reason Rolle is not a CB, is that he cannot cover. That is why he is playing safety, because he has a weakness built into his game. Yet, with all these negatives out in the open, the Giants pony-up, and pay him more than any other safety in the league. THIS, AT A TIME WHEN THE LEAGUE IS CONSIDERING WORK STOPPAGE IN ORDER TO REGAIN PHYSCAL RESPONSIBILITY.

I don't fault Graves for that. Nor do I fault Rolle or his agent. The REAL greed came on the part of the Giants, and at this time in history, when league owners should be showing restraint, this is a terrible sign to the world. They can't apparently even control themselves. I alluded to this very same flaw in discussion on this board during the past season, when the CBA and work stoppage were being discussed. I said then, that the real test to stabilizing the phiscal responsibility of the league would be the owners inability to control themselves. Unfortunately this seems again to be the case.

Fiscal :BIM:D

Think of Finance.
 

john h

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Are you kidding me Urban? It was the money.. Plain and simple, done deal..


Now, I could care less that these two guys left because I have faith in the Cards upper brass.. But this kind of behavior is exactly what is gonna turn of NFL fans.. When they see their players talk big game about loving where they came from (current team), only to go to the highest bidder.. How dumb do these players think we are? Dansby wanted a "winning" team.. Ya right.. He wanted the biggest check.. Rolle is now the highest paid FS.. If that dont make you think something is wrong, nothing will..

What I see as a fan is nothing I can connect with.. And eventually the players greed will doom the players that come after them, because we wont be watching.. Unlike the players that came before these guys money grabbing.. They actually tried to build a system for these current guys to prosper..

I do care about Dansby and Rolle leaving. They were good players and there is nothing wrong with going for the largest pay check. That is largely the American way. Just hope their replacements are as good or better.

A
 

nashman

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Rolle just said that his mom and money were major factors while the cards offered similar money over the course of the deal he got 5 million extra up front to sign there!
 

SoCal Cardfan

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Greed isn't good. Never is. Never has been.

Wanting more isn't greed. Wanting to be compensated fairly, or richly isn't greed. But 43 million instead of say 40 million IS greed. I don't care what people say, you still would make 40 million. If that isn't enough to keep you well for the rest of your life, guess what, 43 won't be either.

You have to put it into perspective, If you had to choose between 2 jobs that were identical, would you take the one that paid 70k? or the one that paid 73k?
 

lauraw

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But I could care less... much less, MD. Cards Czar, forgive me! I had a bad day when I made the inappropriate comment; I'm very sorry.
 

Mitch

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But I could care less... much less, MD. Cards Czar, forgive me! I had a bad day when I made the inappropriate comment; I'm very sorry.

We all deserve Mulligans here...we've all had some meltdowns at certain points. Rage on, lauraw. We love your enthusiasm.
 

chickenhead

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NY offers better endorsement deals if he thinks he can get them, so it's not just the difference in salary. He's from FL and went to Miami, which is closer and with more ties. Maybe for him living it up to the fullest involves clubs and hanging with film and music stars.

The bottom line is he accepted the same money from a place he wanted to go. And now our concern is the safety coming from NY not the one going there. Or here, I should say. But what do I know, I spend half my time in NY following the AZ Cardinals.
 

CardsFan88

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You have to put it into perspective, If you had to choose between 2 jobs that were identical, would you take the one that paid 70k? or the one that paid 73k?

That quote was more about potential hyperinflation. If hyperinflation hits, then 40 million dollars will be worth anywhere between 4 dollars and 4,000 dollars. In which case, the difference between 40 and 43 is nothing. But if we don't hit hyperinflation, 40 million is as good as 43 imo.

Personally it would depend. I would definitely not choose 73 over 70 just for the money. If we were to assume say the two jobs were in the same complex (so no extra commute or different cost of living) it would come down to the job itself, the company, the company's goals, it's outlook. (will it be one of the company's that outsource your job soon? Will it be one that can survive an extreme credit crunch?). I'm of the opinion that 20 percent of our workforce is expendable by the market. Why? Because they work in jobs that didn't exist before cheap and fraudulent credit, and won't exist after. Is this job one of these?


There's tons of questions to ask. Is the job harder? Which job give a more intrinsic value to it? Which is more upwardly mobile?

If all things were equal, I'd rather stay at 70, then leave for 73.

My dad used to work for honeywell. Great engineer. Won many awards including a GM excellence award. Well as an engineer he lost many jobs due to the economy and that time frame and he'd always get the 'we hate to lose you'. Well point is, one time, just once, he went the route of going for the better offer.

What happened? He thought he had already accrued his honeywell pension. Instead he left for the 'better job' 6 months early. Which gave more money, but was out of business in a few years. So yes money flashing in front of your face isn't everything. The one time my dad took it, he lost a pension. Just saying. There's 300 million of us, and more than 300 million different combos of what can happen. There are millions of ways collectively being greedy can backfire on you.

Dollar figures are but one metric, and not even the most important one. Especially if they are within 10 percent of each other.

As for the NFL, not every job is the same. Ask a player who's played for Detroit or in past years here in Arizona if their job here was identical to one with the Cowboys, Steelers, Patriots, etc.

Weather is a big issue. Personally speaking, if it ain't the desert, your weather imo sucks. Can't stand driving in rain. Snow? forget about it. You mean if I want to sign here there could be a 9.0 earthquake AND a volcanic eruption, AND huge Tsunami? Sorry Seattle I would never live there.

For some people, money is above all. I feel that's pretty stupid. But to each his own. However I've also seen many people 'go for the money', and then get burned and wish they hadn't gone after the money. I've seen it with regular jobs, I've seen it with sports players in general. How many times have we seen players remark how great life is and how much fun they are having AFTER they leave some place because their huge contract is up and sign somewhere else for the minimum or a couple of million?

Besides again we do this all for something that can be devalued overnight, MONEY. (not credits)

If they were the exact same job with the same circumstances and the only difference was 3k? Well again, those type of situations are few and far between. If you think your case is that way, odds are, you are missing something. You gotta go with what feels right. Are you giving up seniority? Are you due for a promotion? If none are true, then perhaps it is basically the same and you can risk taking the extra 3k. But I would want to be dang sure of everything.

But hey that 70k you work for might be the dump and the 73k might be the better place. But again, money doesn't make that decision. It's just along for the ride. You have to see the whole picture, and decide based on that. Making ANY significant decision purely on dollars and sense is idiotic (I'm not saying poor people eating ramen instead of hamburger type decisions).

It's pennywise pound foolish. It's like my dad and the pension. It's like how Robert $arver runs the team.

If you want to do something do it. If it makes sense, do it. If it's something you can build and increase your wealth or your companies profitability for the long term. Do it. Like our Arizona gov't. They want to SELL our gov't buildings....so we can LEASE them back.

This is the diametric opposite of my viewpoint. I'm more of the type to buy them back and save the money.

Football players can either chase the money, or they can accept a bit less and go to an awesome situation. For me, that choice would be obvious. When it concerns anybody signed in this off-season, what I see are players signing for top dollar no matter what the situation is, and it will probably bite many of them in the butt at least somewhat. (depends on the person how much it affects them). Thomas Jones to the Chiefs? Rolle to the Giants with bad weather? People choosing to leave for say 43 million instead of 40. People choosing to live and work somewhere else because of taxes?

I see a bunch of rich idiots who have been given their 20 pieces of silver. I can understand 5 million vs 40 million. But 40 vs 43, to me, is the same. I'll live the same life, buy the same things, send my future children to the same colleges, live in the same house, go on the same vacations, but I might not have that championship ring, or been to the playoffs 10 times, etc. Some get lucky, most do not. To each his own, but remember you reap what you sow. Where you end up is where your mind, feet, and heart take you.
 
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