TRADES

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
20,811
Reaction score
13,495
Doesn't everyone want 50 million a year? Of course a young player is going to say he wants as much money as he can get.

But he’s not worth it and that’s the point. Someone is going to pay him and good for him.

If your the Suns having a number 3 guy make 50 million a year is just not possible
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
26,458
Reaction score
7,324
Location
L.A. area
But he’s not worth it and that’s the point. Someone is going to pay him and good for him.

If your the Suns having a number 3 guy make 50 million a year is just not possible

So the Suns should not acquire anyone who might eventually be lured away by another team grossly overpaying for him?
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
20,811
Reaction score
13,495
So the Suns should not acquire anyone who might eventually be lured away by another team grossly overpaying for him?

He’s up for his 5 year 295 million extension now. This offseason is when he’s gonna sign it.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
23,031
Reaction score
14,313
Location
The Giant Toaster
He’s up for his 5 year 295 million extension now. This offseason is when he’s gonna sign it.
Pretty sure only Boston can give him that much. I agree that his upside is what it is at this point. Portland is desperate to help Dame maybe they trade for him.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
12,960
Reaction score
8,228
You seem to be ignoring the giant contract and injury issues that your going to be inheriting from Boston
Ha, no I'm not. You're trading one set of problems for another, hoping you'll get better results from the new set of question marks.
If you got a problem with Ayton getting 30 million you’re gonna lose your **** when Brown wants 50 million

I'd rather take my chances on Brown than on Ayton. 50 million is a made up number by you.
and when was the last time Brogdon was actually healthy for a full season and the playoffs?
I love you making the same argument against Brogdon, when we're running into the same problem EVERY YEAR in the postseason with CP.

Moving forward, CP is one of the few players that is as bad an injury risk as Brogdon, especially when you factor in the playoffs.
Listening to Bill Simmons today and they kinda feel the same way about Brown we do about Ayton. He comes and goes. Simmons saying they flat out cannot give him the money he wants and it’s time to move on.
To get rid of Ayton, we're going to have to take a risk - you understand this, right?
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
20,811
Reaction score
13,495
Ha, no I'm not. You're trading one set of problems for another, hoping you'll get better results from the new set of question marks.


I'd rather take my chances on Brown than on Ayton. 50 million is a made up number by you.

I love you making the same argument against Brogdon, when we're running into the same problem EVERY YEAR in the postseason with CP.

Moving forward, CP is one of the few players that is as bad an injury risk as Brogdon, especially when you factor in the playoffs.

To get rid of Ayton, we're going to have to take a risk - you understand this, right?

Your just arguing to argue at this point.

It’s a made up number? So he’s not eligible for a 5 year 295 million extension this off season? I just made that up? Bill Simmons didn’t just have a whole thing on his podcast about Brown and this extension. I’m just making it all up. Oh ok.

Soooo why would you trade one injured PG for another? How on earth does that make any sense.
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
20,811
Reaction score
13,495
Pretty sure only Boston can give him that much. I agree that his upside is what it is at this point. Portland is desperate to help Dame maybe they trade for him.

That’s the exact team Simmons brought up. They’re desperate to make a win now move to keep Dame happy.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
12,960
Reaction score
8,228
Your just arguing to argue at this point.
Lol, good talk.
It’s a made up number? So he’s not eligible for a 5 year 295 million extension this off season? I just made that up? Bill Simmons didn’t just have a whole thing on his podcast about Brown and this extension. I’m just making it all up. Oh ok.
We're all aware of what he's eligible to make. Ayton was eligible to make more this last offseason and....oh yeah, he didn't supermax out! Crazy how that works, huh?
Soooo why would you trade one injured PG for another? How on earth does that make any sense.
What on earth are you expecting as a return for an oft injured point guard at 37, on a 30M dollar deal?
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
10,289
Reaction score
7,699
That won't help us win next year, which is essentially the window. The KD trade really put this team in a pickle. It's all or nothing next year.
Really? You think we can't possibly get a rookie who can produce at the level of a DLO or Coby White. Lets just say I highly disagree with that.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
10,289
Reaction score
7,699
That’s the exact team Simmons brought up. They’re desperate to make a win now move to keep Dame happy.
If I am Boston and I do get offered #3 and Simons for him, they would be crazy not to do it. The salary advantages with this new CBA make it a no brainer if Scoot is even 60% of the player he is expected to be.

Especially after Brown did not produce in the playoffs like a guy making a super max should.

And I'll say it right now, Portland will still not be good enough to make a legit run with Brown either. Basically the are getting a guy like McColugh back, and Denver is still going to be around, and hopefully the Suns.
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
20,811
Reaction score
13,495
Lol, good talk.

We're all aware of what he's eligible to make. Ayton was eligible to make more this last offseason and....oh yeah, he didn't supermax out! Crazy how that works, huh?

What on earth are you expecting as a return for an oft injured point guard at 37, on a 30M dollar deal?

You do understand there are two Max contracts right.

Ayton didn’t get a super max because he wasn’t eligible for a super max. Ayton got the max he was eligible for.

Brown is eligible for a super max because he’s been selected to an all NBA team.

Crazy how that works huh. Smh
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
14,646
Reaction score
8,941
Location
Tempe, AZ
Really? You think we can't possibly get a rookie who can produce at the level of a DLO or Coby White. Lets just say I highly disagree with that.

Better than Coby, for sure, but short of somehow getting Scoot then there isn't a PG in this draft class that will be more productive than D'Lo next season. Other than Ja, Halliburton, and Cade there haven't been rookie PG's more productive than D'Lo over the last few years and 2 of them were top 2 picks handed the keys to their teams future. Halliburton was really good but I don't think he could have been PG 1 on a championship team as a rookie. He hasn't been the playoffs yet. None of those guys were championship level starting PG's their rookie year.

I'm not seeing this better rookie PG that you do unless we can somehow turn Ayton or Paul into Scoot and that's a big gamble for a team with a 1 year window.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
12,960
Reaction score
8,228
You do understand there are two Max contracts right.
Yes, thanks so much!
Ayton got the max he was eligible for.
No, he definitely did not get the maximum money he was eligible for! For an offer sheet from another team, yes, he signed for the max amount - that's still not the max he could make. The maximum amount of money he could have made would have been a five-year max extension in the $172.5 million range and amounted to up to $207 million with incentives.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
18,439
Reaction score
8,848
Yes, thanks so much!

No, he definitely did not get the maximum money he was eligible for! For an offer sheet from another team, yes, he signed for the max amount - that's still not the max he could make. The maximum amount of money he could have made would have been a five-year max extension in the $172.5 million range and amounted to up to $207 million with incentives.
Correct.
 

Sparky16

Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Posts
492
Reaction score
436
Location
Phoenix
He is also going to take shots away from Booker and KD, there is a reason the Laker benched him. Let the new CBA play out, the Suns are not the only team F'd by the new CBA, there might be a lot of movement this summer. The Suns cannot go into the second apron, they get hammered with so many penalties.

Who? Just look at New Orleans, BI is up for a huge extension. Can't do it under the new CBA without going into the second apron. they are 4 million from the tax as is. Want to keep Alvarado? Valenchunes? Right there have to make some calls, does CJ go? Likely. When is the last time a team like NO has paid the tax?

Who else is F'd? OKC, there is no way they are going to keep their 4 studs. SGA, Giddey, Chet and Williams. All those guys are 40-50m guys.
Wizards F'd
GS majorly F'd
Boston F'd
Lakers F'd
Clippers all F'd
Nuggets F'd next year
Minn F'd next year

The Suns are not the only team that will need to figure out their salaries. But you need to understand in the new CBA you get two super stars and everyone else fights for the balance of $70m. That's why Paul or Ayton has to be gone, they make way too much.

Now, I am not a fan of James youtube Jones I don't think he understands rosters that well (I also don't think Ishbia is that fond of Jones either, I think it would have been a bad look if both Monty and Jones were **** canned), so I am sure he will just keep brining back former Suns. But a really good GM would be able to make some savvy moves to build around your primary scorers. IMO the Suns have one of the best situations, you don't need scoring, you need two way role players that protect and spread the floor for your two top 10 scorers.
This is why "IF" PDX is offering the 3rd overall and filler for DA you take it. BOOK/KD will hold the SuperMax slots for the next 3 years anyway. When KD steps down then you have Scoot Henderson take on that max salary if he is what they day he is. With the Suns luck they will trade then he will go 2nd overall and miss out
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
10,289
Reaction score
7,699
Better than Coby, for sure, but short of somehow getting Scoot then there isn't a PG in this draft class that will be more productive than D'Lo next season. Other than Ja, Halliburton, and Cade there haven't been rookie PG's more productive than D'Lo over the last few years and 2 of them were top 2 picks handed the keys to their teams future. Halliburton was really good but I don't think he could have been PG 1 on a championship team as a rookie. He hasn't been the playoffs yet. None of those guys were championship level starting PG's their rookie year.

I'm not seeing this better rookie PG that you do unless we can somehow turn Ayton or Paul into Scoot and that's a big gamble for a team with a 1 year window.
It doesn't need to be a PG. It needs to be a guard with a little bit of handle, Book can and most likely will be the PG.
 

Fumats20

Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2022
Posts
182
Reaction score
136
Location
Home
....NBA teams are going to start building around draft picks and younger project type guys as the bulk of their rosters, with vets who are willing (or forced) to take historically lower pay also fitting in. Veterans with egos too big to be willing to take less money are going to end up on the outside looking in.

Exactly.

The NPBA didn't like draft picks being discarded like trash when those very picks are needed to build its future as vets grow old. So if you not contributing to the talent pool, you will be penalized. You don't value development, you weren't smart enough or good enough to develop what you pick, you stuck in that penalty stage until those contracts keeping you there expire. And when you come out from under this, act like its your job to develop too.

The other caveat to the new agreement is that teams have an easier time extending rookie contracts. It was said to allow teams more time for players who took longer to develop.

This new CBA was calculated to put pressure on teams to develop their draft picks in addition to any goal they are trying to reach.
 
Last edited:

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
20,811
Reaction score
13,495
Yes, thanks so much!

No, he definitely did not get the maximum money he was eligible for! For an offer sheet from another team, yes, he signed for the max amount - that's still not the max he could make. The maximum amount of money he could have made would have been a five-year max extension in the $172.5 million range and amounted to up to $207 million with incentives.

The yearly dollar amount is the same the only difference is the extra year. It’s still the same dollar amount just one less year.

So what’s the point of your argument here? You legitimately think the Suns are going to trade for a player they have to pay 50 million a year? You think the Suns are going to have 3 max players?
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
12,960
Reaction score
8,228
So what’s the point of your argument here? You legitimately think the Suns are going to trade for a player they have to pay 50 million a year?
You don't know he'll make 50 million, and if they trade the equivalent salaries of Paul and Ayton, it would be about a wash.
You think the Suns are going to have 3 max players?
This may surprise you, but they already have 3 max players! And another guy making near max money!
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
20,811
Reaction score
13,495
You don't know he'll make 50 million, and if they trade the equivalent salaries of Paul and Ayton, it would be about a wash.

This may surprise you, but they already have 3 max players! And another guy making near max money!

so this whole argument is based on he’s gonna take a discount.

So say in your world the Suns have 3 super max players KD, Booker and Brown how are you filling out this roster and with who
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
14,646
Reaction score
8,941
Location
Tempe, AZ
The yearly dollar amount is the same the only difference is the extra year. It’s still the same dollar amount just one less year.

So what’s the point of your argument here? You legitimately think the Suns are going to trade for a player they have to pay 50 million a year? You think the Suns are going to have 3 max players?

He's making about $6 million less over the life of the deal because the annual raises are smaller. Resigning with the home team gives up to 8% raises while elsewhere is limited to 4.5% raises annually. So the first year money was the same but year 2, 3, and 4 he makes less.

Shai gets a max deal worth $138,493,000 over the first 4 years while Ayton's 4 years is lower. $132,929,000 over 4 years. His salary is about a million less than Shai and other players from his draft class who signed max deals.

Spotrac has all the numbers.

And
 

overseascardfan

ASFN Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Posts
8,754
Reaction score
2,057
Location
Phoenix
You must be registered for see images attach

A lot of length and defense coming in to slow down opposing defenses. Plus Powell provides a third scorer to add to Booker and Durant.

BOS gets an upgrade a C and clears some of the log jam at PG (Pritchard, Brogdon & White remain).

LAC beats out LAL for Paul who provides a solid vet to back up Hyland.

If PHX can develop Bazley, he can be a solid option as starting PF with his size and tools. Then sign a guy like Thomas Bryant to a minimum deal and use #52 on an athletic combo forward and PHX should be set for next year.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
10,289
Reaction score
7,699
You must be registered for see images attach

A lot of length and defense coming in to slow down opposing defenses. Plus Powell provides a third scorer to add to Booker and Durant.

BOS gets an upgrade a C and clears some of the log jam at PG (Pritchard, Brogdon & White remain).

LAC beats out LAL for Paul who provides a solid vet to back up Hyland.

If PHX can develop Bazley, he can be a solid option as starting PF with his size and tools. Then sign a guy like Thomas Bryant to a minimum deal and use #52 on an athletic combo forward and PHX should be set for next year.

That is ridiculous.

Clippers aren't giving up Norm Powell. I seriously doubt Celtics are looking to take on a big money deal like Ayton's with the new CBA, they are looking to dump salary. Washington wants Shamet for what reason?
 

overseascardfan

ASFN Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Posts
8,754
Reaction score
2,057
Location
Phoenix
That is ridiculous.

Clippers aren't giving up Norm Powell. I seriously doubt Celtics are looking to take on a big money deal like Ayton's with the new CBA, they are looking to dump salary. Washington wants Shamet for what reason?
If LAC are seriously interested in Paul, they will have to trade for him because the LAL can offer him more and playing with his buddy Lebron makes them the favorites should Paul get waived. Powell will be 31 next year and has three years left on his deal at nearly $20M a year while Paul is essentially an expiring contract so it helps them with their cap situation and they still have Mann & Hyland.

BOS doesn't take on that much in additional salary (around $3M) and actually gets younger with Ayton. Ayton's deal is for 3 more years, Smart has 3 years left on his and Williams has 3 as well so BOS isn't taking on any longer term contracts than they already do. Their cap situation depends on what they do with Jaylen Brown and his upcoming contract which will be huge because he made an All NBA Team. Plus, BOS is paying nearly $60M a year for 3 PGs, they need to balance out their cap to other positions.

Thinking about it, I was wrong about Shamet for Wright swap. Wright is not the player he was with TOR, Shamet has more value that a 31 back up PG who wouldn't be an upgrade over Payne. Shamet would provide a young shooter off the bench which could be of value for any team. I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Shamet especially if they can't find a replacement shooter to fill out the bench with. I don't think PHX is bringing back Ross or Warren.
 
Top