This Team is About To Be Broken Up!

SunsFanFirst

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You guys grossly overrate what Ayton is worth. He is too soft to play the 5 and too slow to play the 4. That will never change. His trade value is only going to continue to go down. We should have unloaded him last offseason. We need to sell NOW to the highest bidder and cut our losses.
 

AzStevenCal

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You guys grossly overrate what Ayton is worth. He is too soft to play the 5 and too slow to play the 4. That will never change. His trade value is only going to continue to go down. We should have unloaded him last offseason. We need to sell NOW to the highest bidder and cut our losses.
Is that why so many teams are reported to be in hot pursuit of him? If you're just saying he hasn't consistently performed as a max player, you're probably right. But he's a better player than many players were when they were extended off of their rookie contracts. That's the contract where teams pay for what the player is and what he might become and overpaying for that potential is just life in the NBA. And failing to do it lets you lose guys like Jalen Smith for peanuts.
 

Mainstreet

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You guys grossly overrate what Ayton is worth. He is too soft to play the 5 and too slow to play the 4. That will never change. His trade value is only going to continue to go down. We should have unloaded him last offseason. We need to sell NOW to the highest bidder and cut our losses.

I suspect the Suns system is not conducive to take advantage of Ayton's strengths. If he goes to a team like the Spurs who will accentuate him in their offense, I expect him to eventually become an All-Star.

If the Suns trade Ayton for peanuts, they will regret it.
 

SunsFanFirst

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Ayton may help pull a crumby team up to a first round exist but he will never be part of a championship team with a max or close to max contract. You might say he was born 20-30 years to late but even then he is too soft to bump with the bigs of the 80’s and 90’s.

Teams know if we dont trade Ayton now we will get nothing for him next year. We are not in a position of power here. We are screwed if we max him because it will wreck whatever window we have left and we wont be able to move him. Its a lose/lose. Im not saying we get peanuts for him but we arent getting a haul either. This is why I said the time to move him was last offseason.
 

SunsFanFirst

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We did not need another season too confirm what we already knew.. he was a bust a #1 and would never be that dominant center we have so long coveted as Suns fans.
 

AzStevenCal

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We did not need another season too confirm what we already knew.. he was a bust a #1 and would never be that dominant center we have so long coveted as Suns fans.
There's a huge gap between bust and dominant center. He isn't a dominant center (most nights) but he is dominant occasionally and even when he doesn't dominate, he's still better than a top pick bust. Like I've said before, this contract is the one time in a player's career where you pay him not just for what he's done but what you believe he will be able to do.

If we are absolutely convinced his work ethic or off court interests or his desire to succeed will keep him from reaching his potential maybe you look for a deal but none of the rumored trades return enough to even warrant a conversation. Giving him 177M over 5 years is going to hurt some if he doesn't improve but giving up on him now is ever worse. He's probably only worth 25M per right now but that's still a far better asset than we're likely to get in return.
 

SunsFanFirst

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I agree with just about everything you say. Except I have given up on him. We have seen his full potential. He is a bust in that no one in their right mind would ever pick him #1 again hindsight 20/20. He will never be worth a max deal. This is as good as it gets. On top of that this is no longer a centers game anymore. Its 3 and D. Ayton is too soft banging for boards, he isnt a shot blocker, and he is slow. He will never be worth more to us than he is right now (he was worth more last offseason while he had two years left on his rookie deal). If we max him we will never win a championship so long as he is on the team. If we do not trade him now he will walk away next season and we will get nothing. Im so sick of Arizona teams letting players like this with value walk for nothing. Lets let someone else cripple their present and future by maxing him. Someone has to be willing to give us a decent starter (yes we wont be able to get someone as good as him but we should be able to get a someone with better value) and a decent draft pick or two hoping a change of scenery will magically teach him to be aggressive and squeeze some more out if him
 

Mainstreet

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We did not need another season too confirm what we already knew.. he was a bust a #1 and would never be that dominant center we have so long coveted as Suns fans.

I don't like to use the word bust in describing a #1 pick that doesn't fulfill expectatations but Anthony Bennett comes close to that description.

Certainly it does not apply to Deandre Ayton.
 

DJ Tabooh

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He is definitely not a bust!
Yeah bust isn’t it at all. Is he inconsistent and not always dominant….sure. But as we’ve discussed on this board when he’s right he’s a top 3-5 center. Now the bigger question is, do you need a dominant center to win a title….

I’d argue that wing players 3’s and 4’s are the key to winning. So if he do end up trading DA, I’d want a versatile wing who can play the 4 as well in some small ball lineups. Toronto or Detroit make the most sense with Jerami Grant or Pascal Siakam. Pascal would be a great #2 next to Book and is solid defensively while still in his prime.
 

SunsFanFirst

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Good grief.. any way you frame it we blew the 2018 Draft. I agree you dont need a dominant center to win. I would go even further and say to spend max money on one guarantees you will never win a championship. People here still think he can be our Shaq or Duncan. Come on man! He is closer to Mark West 2.0
 

Chaplin

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Good grief.. any way you frame it we blew the 2018 Draft. I agree you dont need a dominant center to win. I would go even further and say to spend max money on one guarantees you will never win a championship. People here still think he can be our Shaq or Duncan. Come on man! He is closer to Mark West 2.0
No he's not. Come on.
 

AzStevenCal

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Good grief.. any way you frame it we blew the 2018 Draft. I agree you dont need a dominant center to win. I would go even further and say to spend max money on one guarantees you will never win a championship. People here still think he can be our Shaq or Duncan. Come on man! He is closer to Mark West 2.0
Sorry but that's absurd. He's no Duncan or Shaq but he's much closer to those two than he is to Mark West. If you were rating big men from 1 to 100, both Duncan and Shaq come in near 100. Mark West would be a 13, Ayton is a 70 and unlike the other names in this post, we've yet to see his prime. And those are actual ratings. (that I just made up)
 

Mainstreet

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Sorry but that's absurd. He's no Duncan or Shaq but he's much closer to those two than he is to Mark West. If you were rating big men from 1 to 100, both Duncan and Shaq come in near 100. Mark West would be a 13, Ayton is a 70 and unlike the other names in this post, we've yet to see his prime. And those are actual ratings. (that I just made up)

I never saw a player get so many ticky tack fouls as Mark West. If he even looked at a player it was called a foul.
 

AzStevenCal

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I never saw a player get so many ticky tack fouls as Mark West. If he even looked at a player it was called a foul.
Yeah the old joke about him picking up regular fouls from the bench was pretty true and not just because it actually happened. For most of his career, he should have been limited to being that 3rd or 4th center you bring in to rough up an opponent.
 

Mainstreet

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Yeah the old joke about him picking up regular fouls from the bench was pretty true and not just because it actually happened. For most of his career, he should have been limited to being that 3rd or 4th center you bring in to rough up an opponent.

Mark West looked pretty good to Suns fans who were consistently deprived of a higher tier center until Deandre Ayton came along. He would make a nice depth center in today's NBA.
 
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