There’s still a possibility we draft Nabers

oaken1

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I would ask you:

Would you rather fill the Hopkins role in the offense or the Kirk role?
Tough ask considering we didn't have anything like Boom Boom McBride when we had those guys...

But we need a true X and 6'3 fills that role better than 5'11-1/2

It's a tough choice because Malik is definitely the most dynamic playmaker WR in this group...

Lots of guys here bitched because we picked a slot corner in the second...but now we are okay with picking a slot wr top 5? When we have a handful already....

But then you go back to BPA...Alt or Nabers seem to be BPA if Harrison is gone
 

Krangodnzr

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Tough ask considering we didn't have anything like Boom Boom McBride when we had those guys...

But we need a true X and 6'3 fills that role better than 5'11-1/2

It's a tough choice because Malik is definitely the most dynamic playmaker WR in this group...

Lots of guys here bitched because we picked a slot corner in the second...but now we are okay with picking a slot wr top 5? When we have a handful already....

But then you go back to BPA...Alt or Nabers seem to be BPA if Harrison is gone
BPA is totally subjective and also matters on what you ask your receivers to do within the scheme.

There is probably a team that would look at the Nabers/Odunze argument and would say Odunze is better.
 

oaken1

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Nabers contested catch rate was abysmal compared to Odunze. That's a fact, and Murray really needs an outside receiver who can make those alert plays. It was a staple of the offense when the Cardinals were really good.
But it was a staple of a completely different offense.

Part of the reason I been stumping for Rice is his routes...it looks like Petzing is trying to turn kyler into an on schedule pocket passer...those guys need wr's they can trust to make the right read and be on their spot when the ball gets there.
Does odunze really run better routes than nabers?? If so...then why we're so many of his catches contested? Did he play in a toss it up and pray offense?
 

Chopper0080

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I would ask you:

Would you rather fill the Hopkins role in the offense or the Kirk role?
Personally, the appeal of Nabers is that he creates enough space that less contested catches are required. That is the best case scenario for any offense. My concern is with Kyler and his ability to be accurate enough to take advantage of it. I feel like we see this issue with Marquise Brown. We bicker about Brown needing to be better at the catch point but in reality, if the ball is thrown earlier or better, he wouldn't have to be.
 
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DVontel

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Personally, the appeal of Nabers is that he creates enough space that less contested catches are required. That is the best case scenario for any offense. My concern is with Kyler and his ability to be accurate enough to take advantage of it. I feel like we see this issue with Marquise Brown. We bicker about Brown needing to be better at the catch point but in reality, if the ball is thrown earlier or better, he wouldn't have to be.
But Brown is also much smaller in height & weight with shorter arms. It’s definitely not the same here.
 

Krangodnzr

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Personally, the appeal of Nabers is that he creates enough space that less contested catches are required. That is the best case scenario for any offense. My concern is with Kyler and his ability to be accurate enough to take advantage of it. I feel like we see this issue with Marquise Brown. We bicker about Brown needing to be better at the catch point but in reality, if the ball is thrown earlier or better, he wouldn't have to be.
I mean I get this.

When I look at Malik Nabers, I see a guy running so wide open. I don't ever see anyone challenge him. Never pressed. I know this is the same thing @DVontel said about Ceedee Lamb (which is funny he isn't holding Nabers to this standard).

I just ran through a mixtape of his biggest plays, and not a single one was he really challenged at the catch point. He fought through contact a few times, but very often he's running with complete free releases and against safeties playing one high or two high looks. It just doesn't look like NFL defenses.
 
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DVontel

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When I look at Malik Nabers, I see a guy running so wide open.
Are you viewing this as a negative thing?
Never pressed
Probably because he knows how to beat it?
I know this is the same thing @DVontel said about Ceedee Lamb (which is funny he isn't holding Nabers to this standard).
What in the hell does CeeDee Lamb, a prospect from 4 years ago, have to do with Malik Nabers or Rome Odunze? Are any of them remotely the same player?




This is quite a post. It’s almost like you prefer your WR to not create the most space or your WR to not get open in a quick second. Like you prefer the defender to be on his hip on every step.
 
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DVontel

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This is Krang out-smarting himself just like he did with Tyree Wilson & Will Anderson.

Can’t help but to think there’s some bias against SEC players.
 

Krangodnzr

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Are you viewing this as a negative thing?

Probably because he knows how to beat it?

What in the hell does CeeDee Lamb, a prospect from 4 years ago, have to do with Malik Nabers or Rome Odunze? Are any of them remotely the same player?




This is quite a post. It’s almost like you prefer your WR to not create the most space or your WR to not get open in a quick second. Like you prefer the defender to be on his hip on every step.
You literally didn't address what I said...at all.

Deflection.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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What would test me is if Denver offered Pat Surtain, 12, and a 2025 1. If Minnesota offered 11, Justin Jefferson, +. Giants offered Thibodeaux and 6. Saints give up Olave, 14, and a 1st and 3rd in 2025.

These are the only type of trades that would interest me.
So no trade for you, got it.

None of those are happening.



But I would do any of them as well
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I could see each of those teams making a trade like that. Being in QB limbo really sucks, as we all know.
I can’t recall the last time we saw a star level player included in a trade up for a QB. Dj moore? Is he considered that level? Seems a level below to me.
 

kerouac9

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I can’t recall the last time we saw a star level player included in a trade up for a QB. Dj moore? Is he considered that level? Seems a level below to me.
I went back and forth on this with CBus not too long ago. It depends on your definition and scale. For me, it goes Elite - Superstar - Star - Solid starter - Replacement Level - Below replacement-level.

On that scale, Moore is a star. This is a rough heuristic, but since Moore's rookie season he's been outside the top 20 in fantasy points once, and that time he was 21st. Last season he was sixth among WRs. That's a star to me.
 

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My take on this take.

Agree on Nabers. The question will be about a potential trade down if MHJ is gone. My guess is that Monti would trade down vs taking Nabers, but that wouldn't necessarily be my preference unless the Cardinals got a legitimate NFL player back vs just a ton of picks.

What skews my view of the Nabers vs Odunze argument is fit with Murray. Maybe it is overblown but with what Murray has shown so far, I kinda feel like contested catching ability outweighs run after catch ability. I also feel like Odunze is a more polished player and Nabers is more raw...that may matter more with Murray. Just thinking out loud here.

Regarding Fuaga, I go back and forth. I think he is an awesome RT prospect. I don't know if he could flip to the LT spot which I still feel is important for a top 20 player. If you think he has the athleticism to do so, he had better tape than Fashanu last year, and it would be a debate between the two. I am just not knowledgeable enough to make that determination (I would lean no). I disagree about Fuaga not being a top 15 player, he is IMO. He is a rock solid prospect and I can't see 15 other better prospects from this class. I am not sure a RT only prospect should be drafted in the top 20, and agree with K9 about asset allocation to different position groups being important. That said, how much to take that into account will be clearer after free agency.

I think if our concern about Nabers is that Kyler can't get the best out of his skillset then Nabers isn't the problem.

I think Fuaga is great in some areas and weak in others. I think you are right in that he's RT only. His athleticism looks limited and he struggles against smaller, quicker rushers. I don't think he's a lock to transfer his skills to the NFL, and there are several tackles I like more.

I'm generally not a fan of tackles that size. Guys that weight often struggle with NFL speed.
 
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BritCard

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Nabers contested catch rate was abysmal compared to Odunze. That's a fact, and Murray really needs an outside receiver who can make those alert plays. It was a staple of the offense when the Cardinals were really good.

Everyone keeps using contested catch rates to push Odunze over Nabers.

But Nabers has a better contested catch rate than MHJ.
 

Chopper0080

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Being nervous of Nabers because of Kyler is still so confusing me.

Acting as if Nabers is the same height of Dortch & Moore and Kyler can only throw to WRs that are taller than 6’3.
I have seen Kyler over his career miss receivers running open, and get to read late which causes contested catch situations and limits YAC. IMO, finding space and creating after the catch are what makes Nabers special. Nabers is not special on contested catches. That is why I say that I while I believe Nabers is the better prospect, I wonder if Kyler can maximize his strengths.

For me, it is less about height than you are making it out to be.
 

Krangodnzr

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I have seen Kyler over his career miss receivers running open, and get to read late which causes contested catch situations and limits YAC. IMO, finding space and creating after the catch are what makes Nabers special. Nabers is not special on contested catches. That is why I say that I while I believe Nabers is the better prospect, I wonder if Kyler can maximize his strengths.

For me, it is less about height than you are making it out to be.
It's play style. My concern is that I mostly see a guy busting two deep coverage where he gets free releases.

I think that an outside receiver is a bigger need. Greg Dortch can make some of the plays you see Nabers make.
 
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