The Suns with the 2018 #1 overall pick select....

[SunsTzu]

Good Lord, EVERYONE wants him with the #1 pick. What are you talking about? Pardon us for being realistic and pointing out he is not a David Robinson or Hakeem.

I'm talking about other message boards and outlets. Honestly it's not at all difficult to find overly critical scouting reports about him that I'm surprised you'd even question the post.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about. A site with in depth analysis listing him below Wendell Carter. And I've seen plenty of other draft enthusiasts putting him in the same range.
https://www.thestepien.com

Not thinking he's the second coming is one thing, saying he's a mid level prospect in this draft is what I disagree with.

 

[TJ]

Eh he got schooled by that undersized kid from Stanford. And I think the kid from Texas a&m (not Williams) did a number on him too. I’m not fretting his defense but I have to see a lot more from him before I call him a good defender.

Reid Travis is going to be a problem in the NBA. Very underrated talent and very athletic. He did have his way against Ayton, but that’s not a guy who I say Ayton should’ve shut down completely.

As for A&M, I think Davis was Dusan’s guy and Ayton was on Williams. Williams had a terrible game that night (as did most everyone).

Ayton’s defense also improved when conference play began, which was when he started altering a considerable amount of shots.

 

[TJ]

The way some people tell it Ayton isn't even a lottery pick. Never seen such a negative narrative against such an obvious elite talent. If anything I'm impressed with how productive Ayton was able to be given how ill fitting his supporting cast was. Spent so much time playing with another C that killed spacing and forced him to spend too much time defending the perimeter.

I’m fine with the nitpicking. He’s not going to be Wilt Chamberlain Day 1. He’ll need fine tuning like every draft pick. But to say he has major holes is silly. Mo Bamba is a guy who has major concern offensively for a high level prospect. I think he has the most bust potential of any potential Top-5 pick

 

[TJ]

BTW - I would rather have Bagley than Doncic if McD decides to pass on Ayton. Bagley has a much higher floor.

 

[hsandhu]

I'm talking about other message boards and outlets. Honestly it's not at all difficult to find overly critical scouting reports about him that I'm surprised you'd even question the post.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about. A site with in depth analysis listing him below Wendell Carter. And I've seen plenty of other draft enthusiasts putting him in the same range.
https://www.thestepien.com

Not thinking he's the second coming is one thing, saying he's a mid level prospect in this draft is what I disagree with.

If you are talking about realgm, it's a lot of European fans, who are idiots. Not representative of suns fans, check out Twitter overwhelming for ayton

 

[TJ]

I watched every gUidE game with Ayton playing. So here are a few observations:

*Uofa has horrid spacing and many time the defenses made a point to crowd the key to keep Ayton out.
*Majority of the time Ayton played at the top left of key just inside the wing vs down low in the paint. I never understood this strategy.
* Ayton also played majority of the game with another big and he would match up against PFs.
* He doesn't have a great touch outside the arc, but it also took David a few years to start hitting that shot.
* He is a much better help defender than a low post defender, probably the reason he was matched up more on pfs.

Overall he is right on par with David when he drafted, it will be up to Ayton and his health if he can improve like AD. He should be our pick at #1 for sure!!! So excited to see how this team comes together over this summer.

My PG targets:
Stop gap Proven Vet with great assist:turnover ratio, ability to hit open 3s, 6'1" +, good-great perimeter defender. 2-3 year contract for flexibility
- K. Walker
- G. Dragic
- M. Bogdan (longer deal)
- E. Turner

PF targets:
Mid level vet, 3&D type, rebounder would be a plus. Chriss may fill this role, but still need a sold defender that at times can cover the post. Spacing is going to be key in this new offense.
-P. Milsaps
- T. Gibson
- K. Faried
- T. Young
- N. Mirotic
- J. Henson

I am sure there is more but it is past my bed time

Good analysis. People thought having two 7 footers for Arizona was a good thing and it actually wasn’t. Ayton is a 5 who can stretch the floor, not a stretch 4 a la Lauri Marrkanen, and Dusan was a typical back-to-the-basket 5 who played garbage defense. Could not play packline defense with that and guards and wings who couldn’t defend a 5th grader.

The Admiral is a great comparison because of the length and athleticism, but Robinson didn’t have Ayton’s outside shot.

 

[Raindog]

If you are talking about realgm, it's a lot of European fans, who are idiots. Not representative of suns fans, check out Twitter overwhelming for ayton

This + +

Taking seriously the basketball opinions on RealGM is like relying on IMDB for serious movie reviews.

And even there, the majority seem to be coming around to Ayton being the correct pick.

 

[Raindog]

BTW - I would rather have Bagley than Doncic if McD decides to pass on Ayton. Bagley has a much higher floor.

Agreed... though I can't imagine McD would pass on Ayton for Bagley.

 

[hsandhu]

This + +

Taking seriously the basketball opinions on RealGM is like relying on IMDB for serious movie reviews.

And even there, the majority seem to be coming around to Ayton being the correct pick.

Really, I haven't checked i assumed it was 80% for doncic

 

[Raindog]

Really, I haven't checked i assumed it was 80% for doncic

Latest poll up there shows Ayton slightly ahead. Of course, that could be just because all of the European folks were asleep most of the evening.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would give them 16, and the Suns picks in 2019 and 2021 plus their pick of Chriss or Warren.

Personally I'd rather try and trade for Young. I'd offer the Miami pick, the Milwaukee pick along with the 16 and 31 from this season. That might be enough to get Cleveland to bite if Lebron is leaving. If he's staying, I suspect he'd insist on drafting Trae if he's still there. If we have to move ahead of the 8th spot, we'd probably have to include TJ too.

 

[Hoop Head]

Personally I'd rather try and trade for Young. I'd offer the Miami pick, the Milwaukee pick along with the 16 and 31 from this season. That might be enough to get Cleveland to bite if Lebron is leaving. If he's staying, I suspect he'd insist on drafting Trae if he's still there. If we have to move ahead of the 8th spot, we'd probably have to include TJ too.

Brian Windhorst said the other day that Lebron is going dark when the Cavs season ends. He won't speak with them until July 1st when they can negotiate a new contract and he won't give the team any input on the draft, trades, or other decisions. He plans on treating the Cavs like any other team trying to sign him this summer and the only advantage they'll have is being his hometown team that can offer more than anywhere else.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Brian Windhorst said the other day that Lebron is going dark when the Cavs season ends. He won't speak with them until July 1st when they can negotiate a new contract and he won't give the team any input on the draft, trades, or other decisions. He plans on treating the Cavs like any other team trying to sign him this summer and the only advantage they'll have is being his hometown team that can offer more than anywhere else.

Interesting. I hadn't heard that. But what do you mean about Cleveland being able to offer more? Is that just a comment about it being close to where he grew up or are you talking money. If money, I hadn't thought there would be any difference in the amount that could be offered.

 

[mojorizen7]

The Suns franchise should be expelled from Phoenix if they draft a PG over Ayton. Ship the team off to New Zealand or Albuquerque.

 

[Hoop Head]

Interesting. I hadn't heard that. But what do you mean about Cleveland being able to offer more? Is that just a comment about it being close to where he grew up or are you talking money. If money, I hadn't thought there would be any difference in the amount that could be offered.

More money, they can offer an extra year and larger raises because they have his bird rights. Windhorst said all of that in a post game interview after the game 1 loss, I'm trying to find some info online for it to reference it specifically but the way he was talking tonight on ESPN seems like he's just preparing the "Lebron is leaving Cleveland" narrative that will be everywhere when the playoffs are over until he signs somewhere this summer.

 

[mojorizen7]

The Suns should be adding three point shooters galore. That should be a prerequisite for any new addition. Add Ayton and then add players who can space the floor.

They need a point guard who can shoot now.

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[Hoop Head]

This article mentions it,

Windhorst called it a “vitally important draft pick” and said James won’t have any input on what the Cavaliers do, whether it’s draft someone they think is best for the future of the franchise, a player most likely to get along with James, or trade the pick for a current player. But even with all of that uncertainty, Windhorst argues that the Cavaliers might still be the best place for James to end up.

Apparently he talked about Lebron not having any input on the Woj podcast that's linked in this article also. This is saying he may stick it out in Cleveland just because there won't be a ton of options for him this summer that put him in a great position to compete for a title right away.

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/lebron-james-great-situation-cleveland-cavaliers-brian-windhorst-espn/2/

 

[AzStevenCal]

More money, they can offer an extra year and larger raises because they have his bird rights. Windhorst said all of that in a post game interview after the game 1 loss, I'm trying to find some info online for it to reference it specifically but the way he was talking tonight on ESPN seems like he's just preparing the "Lebron is leaving Cleveland" narrative that will be everywhere when the playoffs are over until he signs somewhere this summer.

I'm not a cap expert by any means but I don't believe that's quite accurate. Having his Bird rights will allow the Cavs to go over the cap to sign him but I don't think that has any bearing on number of years or size of raises. I'm not even sure if they have the right to offer an extra year but maybe someone that knows the cap rules better can correct me here.

 

[Phrazbit]

Trading up and getting 1 & 2 is impossible.

Most prognosticators put this as a draft where Doncic and Ayton clearly stand out above the rest and honestly... what would it take for you guys to even THINK about trading our pick?

3 first round picks and TJ Warren wouldn't be enough to get Sacramento in a conversation... it would literally be something like... Booker.

In the NBA 4 quarters do not equal a dollar because you've only got so many minutes to go around. Getting 4 quality players does not even remotely compare to the potential of having a superstar.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Personally I'd rather try and trade for Young. I'd offer the Miami pick, the Milwaukee pick along with the 16 and 31 from this season. That might be enough to get Cleveland to bite if Lebron is leaving. If he's staying, I suspect he'd insist on drafting Trae if he's still there. If we have to move ahead of the 8th spot, we'd probably have to include TJ too.

Ayton
Doncic
Young
Bagley
Bamba
JJJ
Porter Jr.
Mikal Bridges
Carter

I'd be a little hesitant to trade Miami 2021, but if combining those four picks got us into the top 9, I think it would be worth it. Young would be the dream scenario.

 

[hsandhu]

This + +

Taking seriously the basketball opinions on RealGM is like relying on IMDB for serious movie reviews.

And even there, the majority seem to be coming around to Ayton being the correct pick.

And on the arizonasports 98.7 website at the moment it is 84-16 for ayton, even with the lead suns writer, a moron, pushing hard for doncic.

I re-listened to gambo, he said they'll bring in guys and not announce anything but it will be ayton. Later on twitter he said he is 100% confident... so as long as nothing changes.

Plus, booker knows this pick can determine his entire career. I cant see anyway he would not push for ayton.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not a cap expert by any means but I don't believe that's quite accurate. Having his Bird rights will allow the Cavs to go over the cap to sign him but I don't think that has any bearing on number of years or size of raises. I'm not even sure if they have the right to offer an extra year but maybe someone that knows the cap rules better can correct me here.

When resigning a player the team they're on are able to sign them for 5 years compared to 4 that other teams can offer. Also the raises for a player they're resigning can be up to 8% annually compared to the 5% raises that other teams could offer. I thought it was common knowledge amongst most fans here that teams can offer more resigning players than new teams could. That's part of why players resign with their current teams so often, the extra year mainly providing more guaranteed money.

Here is a link to info on raises and lengths of contracts, the very first listed here is for Bird free agents and it's 5 years and 8% compared to non-Bird FA's at 4 years and 5%.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q53

 

[TJ]

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[Russ Smith]

Has to be Ayton the only other guys in the conversation IMO are Bagley and Bamba and neither of them is so clearly going to be better that you can pass on Ayton. Even if Ayton never improves at all, which seems unlikely given his age and how relatively new he is to the game, he's already a starting caliber 5 for 10 years in the NBA.

With Bagley the gating factor is his outside shot, his mechanics are pretty good but he's been inconsistent because honestly he never needed it in HS or AAU so he shot it for fun more than anything. If some shot doctor can get him to where he's a good outside shooter, which I honestly think WILL happen, he might wind up better than Ayton. He is MUCH quicker, he plays harder IMO, he's a terrific rebounder in his own right, has the potential to be a very good passer, has good hands, but he's not strong enough to dominate the paint in the NBA the way he did in college and HS so he'll need that outside shot. Ayton is strong enough, just needs coaching he's very limited in low post moves right now, and unlike Bagley, he's already a good outside shooter.

 

[SirStefan32]

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I just don't see it. I would have loved Doncic at #2, but unless a major red flag appears about Ayton, I just don't see how they pick him over Ayton.