The Marion/Utah deal that Utah would actually accept

F-Dog

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Suns trade: Shawn Marion
Utah trades: Andrei Kirilenko, Ronnie Brewer


Why it works for the Suns: If the Suns are looking for stability, Kirilenko is the one player in the league who comes closest to filling Marion's shoes. The Suns pay less money up front while getting the security of a younger player on a longer contract.

Ronnie Brewer was universally acknowleged as a steal in last year's draft, and might wind up with a Marionesque toolbox in a few years. He'll step in immediately as the team's backup SF (ahead of Alando Tucker).

Kirilenko especially has a rep as a high-character person, and would almost certainly fit in well in the Suns' locker room. Brewer is a hard worker without any red flags off the court.

Kirilenko and Brewer have both shown tremendous athletic talent that has (so far) gone untapped in Jerry Sloan's deliberate system. There's enormous risk for the Suns in this trade, but also the possibility of enormous reward, because they'd be putting the acquired players in situations well-suited to their respective talents.


Why it doesn't work for the Suns: Kirilenko has the Shaq/Cabarkapa wrist injury on his shooting arm, which prevents full flexion on his shot. He is supposedly in the middle of a two- to three-year odyessy in which he's completely re-working his shooting stroke to compensate for this.

(Also, Brewer broke his shooting arm as a child and still can't fully extend it, resulting in a shot that has been described as Marionesque.)

Beyond current injuries, Kirilenko is injury-prone in the Marcus Camby mold--thin and narrow with huge hops, he is consistently put in situations where players undercut him, leading to bad falls.

Although he moves well off the ball, there's no guarantee Kirilenko will be able to match Marion's impact in that area.

Like a younger Marion, Kirilenko is a much better off-ball defender than on-ball, where he regularly bites on fakes. And because of his frame, I imagine he's even less capable of defending centers (or Tim Duncan) than Marion is.

Brewer has talent but is not a sure thing, either. His lack of burn under Jerry Sloan was slightly troubling if predictable.


Why it works for Utah: Marion's contract matches up with Okur's and Boozer's, allowing the Jazz to pick two of the three players to re-sign and still be able to afford extensions for Deron Williams and Paul Millsap.

Marion is more of a SF than Kirilenko, and would fill that position with an All-Star for 40mpg, 80 games per year.

Kirilenko has thrown down the gauntlet even harder than Marion, offering to void his contract and breaking all ties to the team. There is some question whether he'll show up for training camp.

There's a decent chance Kirilenko will take the Vince Carter route if he's forced to play for Sloan. If he does, the result will be almost indistinguishable from his actual performance from last season.


Why it doesn't work for Utah: They'll do this. Trust me on this one.


:shrug:
 
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Sunsman44

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And why not Kirilenko and Millsap?

It appears if Jazz want to rid crying Kirilenko so much and would love Marion in return, they'd sure be willing to give up a Paul Millsap.

Might as well trade Marion for Kirilenko straight up. Brewer is as good as...........well, nothing.
 
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F-Dog

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And why not Kirilenko and Millsap?
Because the Jazz will not give up Millsap. They won't take Banks' contract, either.

If they were willing to do one of those things, there probably would have been a deal with Phx a month ago.
 

elindholm

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No love for my proposal of Marion and Banks for Jamison and Haywood? I like Jamison because he has a great health record, except for a little blip last season, and has shown a great willingness to play whatever role is asked, including his Sixth Man year in Dallas not too long ago.
 
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Jamison is not a good defender. I would compare him to Shareef Abdur-Rahim on that end--the opposing coach doesn't immediately scream 'mismatch' when he steps in, but he leaves a hole in the team's defense that the other four players will have to account for.

I agree that it would be nice to get his skills and durability, but putting Jamison in a lineup with Nash, Grant Hill and/or Amare is asking for trouble.
 

cly2tw

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Why wouldn't Utah accept Banks' contract instead of sending Brewer to us? AK + Giricek for Marion + Banks adds only 3 years of less than 15 mil for them but substracts at least 2 years 33 mil on AK's vs. Marions. Unless they don't want Marion's skill set and a chance to extend Williams without LT, it's a good deal for them too.

Maybe the Odom deal is just a decoy to bait Utah do the deal with us.
 
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F-Dog

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Why wouldn't Utah accept Banks' contract instead of sending Brewer to us?
Because their entire salary sheet is structured to give them maximum flexibility in the summer of 2009. Taking Banks' contract right now could easily cost them a max player in two years.
 

cly2tw

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Because their entire salary sheet is structured to give them maximum flexibility in the summer of 2009. Taking Banks' contract right now could easily cost them a max player in two years.

Well, with AK on the roster they have even less flexibility. Which other deal could they get? Moreover, in two years Banks' contract will not be too hard to move.
 

nowagimp

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Suns trade: Shawn Marion
Utah trades: Andrei Kirilenko, Ronnie Brewer

Why it works for the Suns: If the Suns are looking for stability, Kirilenko is the one player in the league who comes closest to filling Marion's shoes. The Suns pay less money up front while getting the security of a younger player on a longer contract.

Ronnie Brewer was universally acknowleged as a steal in last year's draft, and might wind up with a Marionesque toolbox in a few years. He'll step in immediately as the team's backup SF (ahead of Alando Tucker).

Kirilenko especially has a rep as a high-character person, and would almost certainly fit in well in the Suns' locker room. Brewer is a hard worker without any red flags off the court.

Kirilenko and Brewer have both shown tremendous athletic talent that has (so far) gone untapped in Jerry Sloan's deliberate system. There's enormous risk for the Suns in this trade, but also the possibility of enormous reward, because they'd be putting the acquired players in situations well-suited to their respective talents.


Why it doesn't work for the Suns: Kirilenko has the Shaq/Cabarkapa wrist injury on his shooting arm, which prevents full flexion on his shot. He is supposedly in the middle of a two- to three-year odyessy in which he's completely re-working his shooting stroke to compensate for this.

(Also, Brewer broke his shooting arm as a child and still can't fully extend it, resulting in a shot that has been described as Marionesque.)

Beyond current injuries, Kirilenko is injury-prone in the Marcus Camby mold--thin and narrow with huge hops, he is consistently put in situations where players undercut him, leading to bad falls.

Although he moves well off the ball, there's no guarantee Kirilenko will be able to match Marion's impact in that area.

Like a younger Marion, Kirilenko is a much better off-ball defender than on-ball, where he regularly bites on fakes. And because of his frame, I imagine he's even less capable of defending centers (or Tim Duncan) than Marion is.

Brewer has talent but is not a sure thing, either. His lack of burn under Jerry Sloan was slightly troubling if predictable.


Why it works for Utah: Marion's contract matches up with Okur's and Boozer's, allowing the Jazz to pick two of the three players to re-sign and still be able to afford extensions for Deron Williams and Paul Millsap.

Marion is more of a SF than Kirilenko, and would fill that position with an All-Star for 40mpg, 80 games per year.

Kirilenko has thrown down the gauntlet even harder than Marion, offering to void his contract and breaking all ties to the team. There is some question whether he'll show up for training camp.

There's a decent chance Kirilenko will take the Vince Carter route if he's forced to play for Sloan. If he does, the result will be almost indistinguishable from his actual performance from last season.


Why it doesn't work for Utah: They'll do this. Trust me on this one.


:shrug:

Good analysis F-Dog, I like it. I didnt know about AK's wrist injury, good info. When did this happen? Did it coincide with the plunge in his outside shooting percentage?
 
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F-Dog

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Good analysis F-Dog, I like it. I didnt know about AK's wrist injury, good info. When did this happen? Did it coincide with the plunge in his outside shooting percentage?

That was the injury that ended his 2004/5 season.

I'm not sure what his outside shooting was like the next season (all his percentages were down last season), but it has apparently been a continuing problem since then.
 

YouJustGotSUNSD

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So who here has been rethinking their stance on the AK+Brewer - Marion trade?

Brewer is absolutely demolishing in steals and looks to have a lock on the MIP award, and AK has been pounding away blocks like nobody's business. They both have decent assist numbers too. Brewer would be a great backup for hill and AK seems to be back in full force after his emotional roller coaster.

Nash/Banks
Bell/Barbosa
Hill/Brewer
AK/Skinner
Stat/Diaw

Solid and Deep
 
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YouJustGotSUNSD

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Allegedly yes, but that doesnt refute the fact that many of us scoffed at the ak-brewer potential.

Was talking about people opinions on the deal, not the politics of negotiations.
 

asudevil83

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So who here has been rethinking their stance on the AK+Brewer - Marion trade?

Brewer is absolutely demolishing in steals and looks to have a lock on the MIP award, and AK has been pounding away blocks like nobody's business. They both have decent assist numbers too. Brewer would be a great backup for hill and AK seems to be back in full force after his emotional roller coaster.

Nash/Banks
Bell/Barbosa
Hill/Brewer
AK/Skinner
Stat/Diaw

Solid and Deep

after pimping both Brewer and AK like that i have to ask you why again does Utah do this? sounds to me like they are getting the crap end of the stick.

also, have you seen Utah's salary structure?

lets say Marion doesnt opt out. 09/10 they'll have to probably resign:

Marion
Boozer
Okur
Deron

and most likely all 4 of these guys are going to take HUGE contracts to resign.
 

YouJustGotSUNSD

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I was making a hindsight argument guys. Most of us shyed away from this deal which was reported to be on the table. Both those players are having great seasons.

Hindsight discussion, come on guys. No one here is saying the deal is still on the table. Hindsight.
 

cly2tw

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I was making a hindsight argument guys. Most of us shyed away from this deal which was reported to be on the table. Both those players are having great seasons.

Hindsight discussion, come on guys. No one here is saying the deal is still on the table. Hindsight.

Well, I have been supporting the idea from start. I'd even have done Kirilenko for Marion straight up, plus Giricek for Banks for salary balances, without Brewer who Utah would not have dealt anyway.:D
 

nowagimp

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I'd have to say I would consider this deal seriously as it would not hurt the suns defensively and it would make them deeper as it appears brewer is going to be a player.
 

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