The importance of a nose-tackle

[Catfish]

Now that the post-season is officially underway for the Cards, and we know that KW will not be back next season, it is time that we take a very serious look at the nose-tackle position on this team.

The fact that Lleinart is more than likely our new starting QB, means that our offense will probably not be the high scoring machine we have been used to. That, in turn, translates to a change in defensive philosophy. The D can no longer be the soft unit that allows points to be easily tallied upon the board against us.

I would think that this will probably make us a team that relies on the run to set up the pass as an offensive unit. I would also think that we will probably become a team that shuts down the run on defense, and that forces the opponent to pass to score against us.

Right now we have what I believe to be a couple of pretty decent Corners in DRC, and in Toler, (based on what we saw of him in the Saints game). One more good pick-up in the draft would go a long way toward helping to make us the team that you do not pass so successfully against.

So far a stopping the run is concerned, it is not so readily seen just how successfully we can do that. Robinson was definitely NOT what we needed to see at nose-tackle. Watson, while having good size and build for the position, has still not shown that he has the strength needed at that position, (although he might be able to show that during ota's later this spring). Having the extra several months to heal from his surgery and gain strength back may help him to get back to where he was getting before the injury. The fact that Robinson was able to keep him from starting, however, shows just how far Watson has to go the get back in the saddle at the n ose.

In the meantime, there are three really great looking prospects coming out of college this year, any of which look to be able to step into our system and play the nose as a starter. They are DAN WILLIAMS, 6' 2'', 329 lbs, out of Tennessee, TERRENCE CODY, 6' 4", 370 lbs., out of Alabama, and TORRELL TROUP, 6' 3", 310 lbs, out of the University of Central Forida.
They are ranked one, two, and three, as nose tackles in this draft out of all the DT prospects.

You have all heard about Dan Williams and Mount Cody from the Senior bowl and all the hype surrounding them during the season. Troup is not one who has had a huge press following, but he may be just as effective to fill in that position for the Cards, as the other two are.

Troup was successful and instrumental in holding the opposing team to just 79 yards rushing, and a total of 10 points allowed for the entire East/West Shrine game. He accomplished what Williams and Cody did in the Senior Bowl. He is an extremely strong legged individual, who has the ability to push even the double-team when fresh, AND he has the ability to call on his violent hands to separate him from the blocker when necessary. The really good thing about him is that he almost certainly will be availabe in the second round of the draft, although he is considered a strong riser among prospects, and he just might be there in the third, but probably not where we will pick.

I am not sure that Williams will be available to us where we pick, but Cody should be there for us in the first round. Troup should be there for us in the second. I feel that it is imperative that we sign one of these two nose tackles in the upcoming draft, even it Watson shows a leap forward in his strengthening after last year's surgery. Watson, teamed with either of the other two would make a formidable combination spelling each other, especially if Branch can be added to the mix on occasion as he also spells the DE's. An extra benefit, would be the formidable goal line defense we could place at the line of scrimmage with someone like Cody at the nose, flanked by Watson and Branch, and them flanked by Campbell and Dockett.

Having a truly solid nose-tackle would make our defense very sound against the run, especially if we can bring in a couple of fresh young hard-hitting linebackers. A rush linebacker would help also. I know that this would require us to spend maybe 4 or 5 picks on defense this year in the draft, but we have almost necessitated that by our nearly total attention the the offensive side of the ball in recent years. The good thing is, that this class of prospects is set up to reward the team that drafts for defense this year.

Virtually all championship teams that I have watched over the years have been able to run the ball, and to stop the run. I think that this would be the way to build the defense that we will need to put on the field to compliment the game that Leinart will give us. I also believe that it is necessary to do this, so that we can put pressure on the opponent, late in games to seal our lead. To me, the presence of a deep and solid nose-tackle position, is the key to having that kind of success. Thoughts?????

 

[WildBB]

require us to spend maybe 4 or 5 picks on defense this year in the draft, but we have almost necessitated that by our nearly total attention the the offensive side of the ball in recent years. The good thing is, that this class of prospects is set up to reward the team that drafts for defense this year.

Not total attention to offense. Just Last yr. C. Brown (2nd), R. Johnson (3rd), G. Toler (4th). Also signed McFadden - FA.
2008:
2008 1 16 16 Cardinals Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Tennessee State
2008 2 19 50 Cardinals *Calais Campbell DE Miami
2008 4 17 116 Cardinals Kenny Iwebema DE Iowa
Signed Haggins and LaBoy- FA's
2007:

2007 2 1 33 Cardinals *Alan Branch DT Michigan
2007 3 5 69 Cardinals Buster Davis ILB Florida State BUST

Virtually all championship teams that I have watched over the years have been able to run the ball, and to stop the run. I think that this would be the way to build the defense that we will need to put on the field to compliment the game that Leinart will give us. I also believe that it is necessary to do this, so that we can put pressure on the opponent, late in games to seal our lead. Thoughts

?????

Sure, we have to ensure continued success in putting up points as well in a balanced attack. That takes pressure off the D as well and keeps them fresher off the field more often.

 

[MrYeahBut]

The D can no longer be the soft unit that allows points to be easily tallied upon the board against us.

I can't stand the fact that this has been the case for the last few years. The fact that Warner is gone should have nothing to do with it. They should never have been allowed to become soft in the first place

Edit to add...Super Bowl, Titans game, both Packer games, Saints game....wth was that crap. ok got that off my chest



.

 

[Catfish]

Hey BB-----I know we signed DRC, Campbell, Iwebema, Branch, and Davis, and I am not addressing Free Agency at all, only drafts. Branch was drafted as a DT but didn't want to play there. He is playing as a DE. Davis was a bust. DRC is a finesse pick, not a tackler. Out of 5 draft selections by the FO in three years, one is playing out of position, (the position we need a bad dude to play, Nose Tackle), one is a shee shee fu fu corner that would only make a tackle if Prime Time himself made one first, and we all know that ain't going to happen. The big hitting linebacker we thought we had was a bust. Two DE's don't cut the mustard, especially tall skinny ones.

As for any Free Agents we brought on board, they were all older types, not young big hitters that we need on defense. McFadden won't even turn around to face the ball, so what kind of corner is that??? Rolle was supposed to be that corner, but couldn't turn and run with a receiver, ANY RECEIVER, and he still can't. Okeafor, Berry, and even Rod Hood didn't make any ballcarrier or receiver shake in their boots fearing they were going to get hit.

We need, (especially the defense), to get younger, meaner, stronger, and tougher. We need a young defense that people fear. The offense has plenty of weapons for Leinart to work with, even if we don't add any. At least two offensive add-ons would cover a QBOF to begin training, and maybe a young OT to get into the mix as well.

I say add a NT, CB that hits, (see Devin McCourty, from Rutgers),
Two linebackers, one outside, and one inside, and a FS that can stay with a receiver and is fast enough to cover some ground.

 

[imaCafan]

Brings to mind the thread where someone stated a good NT will make the LB's and even the DB's look better, kind of a domino affect. I agree pick #1 should be a NT as long as it's not a reach type pick. Williams or even Cody #1.....

 

[Duckjake]

Brings to mind the thread where someone stated a good NT will make the LB's and even the DB's look better, kind of a domino affect. I agree pick #1 should be a NT as long as it's not a reach type pick. Williams or even Cody #1.....

NT has to be a concern for the Cards with Robinson turning 36 in June. Inquiring minds want to know what the future holds for Gabe Watson and Alan Branch.

As for running the ball and stopping the run to win, that went out the window when the NFL decided to change the way they enforced the rules on illegal contact and pass interference. Everyone agrees it is a quarterbacks league now. To win you have to protect your passer while getting pressure on theirs.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Hey BB-----I know we signed DRC, Campbell, Iwebema, Branch, and Davis, and I am not addressing Free Agency at all, only drafts. Branch was drafted as a DT but didn't want to play there. He is playing as a DE. Davis was a bust. DRC is a finesse pick, not a tackler. Out of 5 draft selections by the FO in three years, one is playing out of position, (the position we need a bad dude to play, Nose Tackle), one is a shee shee fu fu corner that would only make a tackle if Prime Time himself made one first, and we all know that ain't going to happen. The big hitting linebacker we thought we had was a bust. Two DE's don't cut the mustard, especially tall skinny ones.

As for any Free Agents we brought on board, they were all older types, not young big hitters that we need on defense. McFadden won't even turn around to face the ball, so what kind of corner is that??? Rolle was supposed to be that corner, but couldn't turn and run with a receiver, ANY RECEIVER, and he still can't. Okeafor, Berry, and even Rod Hood didn't make any ballcarrier or receiver shake in their boots fearing they were going to get hit.

We need, (especially the defense), to get younger, meaner, stronger, and tougher. We need a young defense that people fear. The offense has plenty of weapons for Leinart to work with, even if we don't add any. At least two offensive add-ons would cover a QBOF to begin training, and maybe a young OT to get into the mix as well.

I say add a NT, CB that hits, (see Devin McCourty, from Rutgers),
Two linebackers, one outside, and one inside, and a FS that can stay with a receiver and is fast enough to cover some ground.

If I were you I'd delete this entire post. It makes you look bad IMO.

 

[Catfish]

If I were you I'd delete this entire post. It makes you look bad IMO.

It seems to me our defense was exposed in the playoffs.

l. DRC was a good, (maybe could be great), shut-down corner during the season. He was at least good enough to force the other teams to throw to the other side from where he lined up most of the time. He did not play the run however. He patterns himself like Dieon that way. Chasing the ball carrier to the sideline and pushing him out of bounds is NOT playing the run, and leaves you as only half a cornerback, especially since you are giving up ground all the while you are chasing him to the sideline. DRC needs to get stronger so that he can use his body to tackle the ball carrier. The cornerback that I talked about, (McCourty does just that, he plays the pass AND the run, and does both very well). He is a special teams dream player, and has returned kick-offs for TD's.

2. There is little doubt that Buster Davis was a huge bust for us. I don't think there is even any question about this.

3. What we had planned for NT didn't work out. We went after Watshon and Branch to fill that requirement. Branch has become a permanent DE, and has not shown a propensity to play the Nose. Watson got hurt, and has not gotten back to anywhere even close to what he was before surgery. The fact that Robinson, who is much lighter, is still stronger than Watson shows how far he has to go to take over that spot.

4. When I said that 2 tall skinny DE's don't cut it, I only meant that they are the only ones who really filled the shoes they were drafted to fill. That, in my opinion, just doesn't cut the mustard. Two ends out of an entire defensive unit doing what they should be doing, is just not good enough for me.

It was not our offense that was exposed this year, it was the defense, THE SAME DEFENSE THAT COST US THE SUPER BOWL. Running off Pendergast did not cure that problem. We still don't have a Nose TAckle that can command a double team, so that our DE's can get to the QB or the ball carrier often enough. We were using Wilson out of position, and pretty much negated his play this year. Rolle was spotty at best. McFadden was pretty much a no show. If our defense doesn't need fixing, then what does? I just don't see that asking to fix what is broken, makes me look Bad. If it does, then so be it, at least I am proposing a way to make us a complete team, not just one that scores.

 

[Reddog]

It seems to me our defense was exposed in the playoffs.

l. DRC was a good, (maybe could be great), shut-down corner during the season. He was at least good enough to force the other teams to throw to the other side from where he lined up most of the time. He did not play the run however. He patterns himself like Dieon that way. Chasing the ball carrier to the sideline and pushing him out of bounds is NOT playing the run, and leaves you as only half a cornerback, especially since you are giving up ground all the while you are chasing him to the sideline. DRC needs to get stronger so that he can use his body to tackle the ball carrier. The cornerback that I talked about, (McCourty does just that, he plays the pass AND the run, and does both very well). He is a special teams dream player, and has returned kick-offs for TD's.

2. There is little doubt that Buster Davis was a huge bust for us. I don't think there is even any question about this.

3. What we had planned for NT didn't work out. We went after Watshon and Branch to fill that requirement. Branch has become a permanent DE, and has not shown a propensity to play the Nose. Watson got hurt, and has not gotten back to anywhere even close to what he was before surgery. The fact that Robinson, who is much lighter, is still stronger than Watson shows how far he has to go to take over that spot.

4. When I said that 2 tall skinny DE's don't cut it, I only meant that they are the only ones who really filled the shoes they were drafted to fill. That, in my opinion, just doesn't cut the mustard. Two ends out of an entire defensive unit doing what they should be doing, is just not good enough for me.

It was not our offense that was exposed this year, it was the defense, THE SAME DEFENSE THAT COST US THE SUPER BOWL. Running off Pendergast did not cure that problem. We still don't have a Nose TAckle that can command a double team, so that our DE's can get to the QB or the ball carrier often enough. We were using Wilson out of position, and pretty much negated his play this year. Rolle was spotty at best. McFadden was pretty much a no show. If our defense doesn't need fixing, then what does? I just don't see that asking to fix what is broken, makes me look Bad. If it does, then so be it, at least I am proposing a way to make us a complete team, not just one that scores.

So what are you saying? We should draft a NT?

 

[Cards Czar]

Here is my Top 11 NT ranking for the upcomming draft.

1. Dan Williams, Tenn, 6-2, 329, 5.23 , 1 rounder.

2. T. Cody, Ala, 6-4, 370, 5.72, late 1 - early 2nd.

3. Cam Thomas, N.C., 6-4, 331, 5.18, Late 2nd -3 rounder.

4. Torell Troup, C. Fl., 6-3, 310, 5.28, 3-4 rounder.

5. Linval Joseph, E. Carolina, 6-6, 322, 5.32, 5-6 rounder.

6. Jay Ross, E. Carolina, 6-3, 314, 5.09, 5-6 rounder.

7. Al Woods, LSU, 6-4 312, 5.36, 6-7 rounder.

8. Travis Ivey, Maryland, 6-4 341, 5.23, 6-7 rounder.

9. Abe Koroma, W. Ill, 6.2 1/2, 317, 5.12, 7-PFA.

10. Kade Weston, Georgia, 6-4, 325, 5.28, 7-PFA.

11. Elom Udofia, Stanford, 6-1, 326, 5.18, 7-PFA.

 

[Catfish]

So what are you saying? We should draft a NT?

Yes, I AM saying we should draft a nose tackle, and do it high in the draft, (picks one, two, or three). We lack the franchise piece to build our 3/4 defense around.

I am also saying we need to spend about 5 of our seven picks on defense this year. We need to address ILB, Rush OLB, a complete corner, and a FS as well, and these should be in addition to any signings we have already made to this point.

I know that only leaves two picks for offense, but that is not where we are hurting. We have created enough offensive players and playmakers to allow us to spend those two picks on possibly an OT, and maybe a QB trainee for the practice squad. We should get Leinart's backup through free agency.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Hey BB-----I know we signed DRC, Campbell, Iwebema, Branch, and Davis, and I am not addressing Free Agency at all, only drafts. Branch was drafted as a DT but didn't want to play there. He is playing as a DE. Davis was a bust. DRC is a finesse pick, not a tackler. Out of 5 draft selections by the FO in three years, one is playing out of position, (the position we need a bad dude to play, Nose Tackle), one is a shee shee fu fu corner that would only make a tackle if Prime Time himself made one first, and we all know that ain't going to happen. The big hitting linebacker we thought we had was a bust. Two DE's don't cut the mustard, especially tall skinny ones.

Branch was a DT in college, not the NG. Watson and Terrance Taylor occupied that spot at Michigan. A 3-4 DE typically is a 4-3 DT. Stop hating on the player. It's not Branch's fault, nor was it Calvin Pace's or Antrel Rolle's fault that they were drafted out of position for team's scheme at that time.

DRC is a Pro Bowler in his second season. If he is able to make a good return form injury next year he will likely be one of the top 5 players at his position in the game. Have you ever played football? If so what position. Asking that guy to bulk up and tackle everybody would slow him down and nick him up. The man is able to cover like only a few in the world can. To try and take him away from that would be ridiculous. He hits when necessary. Should the Colts be looking for a mobile QB in the draft since Manning is so slow and never seems to run for 1st downs?

As for any Free Agents we brought on board, they were all older types, not young big hitters that we need on defense. McFadden won't even turn around to face the ball, so what kind of corner is that??? Rolle was supposed to be that corner, but couldn't turn and run with a receiver, ANY RECEIVER, and he still can't. Okeafor, Berry, and even Rod Hood didn't make any ballcarrier or receiver shake in their boots fearing they were going to get hit.

Rolle was press corner who was asked to play 10 yards off the ball. BTW he is a very good tackler and definitely hits. Okeafor and Berry were 4-3 pass rushers whose jobs were to get after the QB, not play ILB. Rod Hood was a CB, what are you talking about??? How many big hitting CBs do you know of? Please tell me.

Where are these "young FA big hitters" you speak of? News flash bud, those rarely exist--when they do you have to overpay to get them. If these players were that good their original teams wouldn't be letting them walk away in their prime. Good teams don't overpay for players, them get them cheaper than market value via the draft.

We need, (especially the defense), to get younger, meaner, stronger, and tougher. We need a young defense that people fear. The offense has plenty of weapons for Leinart to work with, even if we don't add any. At least two offensive add-ons would cover a QBOF to begin training, and maybe a young OT to get into the mix as well.

This isn't baseball. You can't be great at everything when there is a salary cap. The D will get better as this will be their 2/3rd year in a new system.

I say add a NT, CB that hits, (see Devin McCourty, from Rutgers),
Two linebackers, one outside, and one inside, and a FS that can stay with a receiver and is fast enough to cover some ground.

We have a first and a (2nd year) third at the FS position right now. Don't hold your breath waiting for us to pick another one unless Rolle is cut. We also have a very young OLB group. Don't be shocked if we add a vet to that group and go elsewhere in the draft. I agree we need two ILBs.

It seems to me our defense was exposed in the playoffs.

l. DRC was a good, (maybe could be great), shut-down corner during the season. He was at least good enough to force the other teams to throw to the other side from where he lined up most of the time. He did not play the run however. He patterns himself like Dieon that way. Chasing the ball carrier to the sideline and pushing him out of bounds is NOT playing the run, and leaves you as only half a cornerback, especially since you are giving up ground all the while you are chasing him to the sideline. DRC needs to get stronger so that he can use his body to tackle the ball carrier. The cornerback that I talked about, (McCourty does just that, he plays the pass AND the run, and does both very well). He is a special teams dream player, and has returned kick-offs for TD's.

McCourty has done NOTHING!!! He is a college player. Trying to equate him to DRC is laughable at best. Staying in front on a RB and pushing him out of bounds is EXACTLY what a coach wants from a 2nd year CB who has HOF potential. McFadden is about as physical CB as there is in the league. How did that work out for us? We definitely need another good DB, but hating on DRC is just dumb.

2. There is little doubt that Buster Davis was a huge bust for us. I don't think there is even any question about this.

And why did we draft him again? Oh yeah, he was a thumper, hell of a hitter. Ooooo let's get more guys just like him.

3. What we had planned for NT didn't work out. We went after Watshon and Branch to fill that requirement. Branch has become a permanent DE, and has not shown a propensity to play the Nose. Watson got hurt, and has not gotten back to anywhere even close to what he was before surgery. The fact that Robinson, who is much lighter, is still stronger than Watson shows how far he has to go to take over that spot.

When did Branch become a permanent DE? You obviously didn't watch him much this year because he made quite a few plays as the NT. How do you know that Robinson is stronger than Watson and why would it really matter anyhow?

4. When I said that 2 tall skinny DE's don't cut it, I only meant that they are the only ones who really filled the shoes they were drafted to fill. That, in my opinion, just doesn't cut the mustard. Two ends out of an entire defensive unit doing what they should be doing, is just not good enough for me.

Who are you talking about????? Our DE's were the only decent players on our unit this past year??

Campbell is 300 lbs. I guess he isn't fat but the man is far from skinny. He looks like a bigger version of Julius Peppers or Dwight Freeney to me and appears to be just what the doctor ordered since he was fantastic this year and will go down as one of the great Cardinal defenders IMO. I am going to guess that the other guy you're talking about is Iwebema but he's far from skinny too. This is a mess.

It was not our offense that was exposed this year, it was the defense, THE SAME DEFENSE THAT COST US THE SUPER BOWL. Running off Pendergast did not cure that problem. We still don't have a Nose TAckle that can command a double team, so that our DE's can get to the QB or the ball carrier often enough. We were using Wilson out of position, and pretty much negated his play this year. Rolle was spotty at best. McFadden was pretty much a no show. If our defense doesn't need fixing, then what does? I just don't see that asking to fix what is broken, makes me look Bad. If it does, then so be it, at least I am proposing a way to make us a complete team, not just one that scores.

Our starting defense didn't cost us the SB, injuries did. Sometimes that happens in football. Hell, if Graves goes out and fills the team with these "big hitters" you want then we are going to see a whole lot more of them. Do you realize that going into the playoffs both of our starting DE's, a starting OLB, both starting ILBs, our #1 CB, our starting FS, both of our PB WRs, our starting RB, and our starting LT were all either hurt and out or playing hurt? What other defense in the NFL would have still been good missing all of that?? The Saints D was great in the beginning of the year and then when they lost a few D-linemen and CBs and got torched a few times everyone wrote the team off because of their "pathetic" D. That sure wasn't the case.

Our defense had the most sacks they've had in the last 25 years but they couldn't get after the QB??? What position should Wilson be playing? Rolle was VERY good this year. It's not asking for fixing that makes you look bad it's showing that you have zero knowledge about this team, and being really loud about it, that makes you look bad. Yes we need a NT. You should have just left it at that IMO.

 

[Hypothesis]

When did Branch become a permanent DE? You obviously didn't watch him much this year because he made quite a few plays as the NT. How do you know that Robinson is stronger than Watson and why would it really matter anyhow?


Who are you talking about????? Our DE's were the only decent players on our unit this past year??

Campbell is 300 lbs. I guess he isn't fat but the man is far from skinny. He looks like a bigger version of Julius Peppers or Dwight Freeney to me and appears to be just what the doctor ordered since he was fantastic this year and will go down as one of the great Cardinal defenders IMO. I am going to guess that the other guy you're talking about is Iwebema but he's far from skinny too. This is a mess.


Our defense had the most sacks they've had in the last 25 years but they couldn't get after the QB??? What position should Wilson be playing? Rolle was VERY good this year. It's not asking for fixing that makes you look bad it's showing that you have zero knowledge about this team, and being really loud about it, that makes you look bad. Yes we need a NT. You should have just left it at that IMO.

You made some very good points throughout your post. Just going to point out a few things.

*Alan Branch rarely ever lined up at NT in our defense. He was mainly used at RE. He did line up over guard in our short yardage and goal line defense, and also did show his athleticism in doing stunts where he would end up bull rushing the center and even split a few double teams on those stunts. But he was not our NT. Robinson was our main guy at the nose with Watson being his main back up, however, we did use Dockett at the nose quite often in some of our packages, mainly obvious passing downs.

But I don't agree with the statement that Branch is a permanent DE.

*Iwebema is a skinny/small DE for the 3-4. He is listed at 6'4 274-280 pounds depending what sites you look at. DD is listed at 285 lbs, but he is built much better for the position and is much stronger. Iwebema lacks that low center of gravity and the lower body mass to be a real effective DE in a 3-4. He'd be a good 4-3 rush end in my opinion as he does have good speed and quickness however.

Linval Joseph out of East Carolina, 6-6 322 pounds is someone I'd like the Cards to look at in this draft in the middle rounds. I think this guy will develop into an exceptional 3-4 DE.

*Our sack totals were a little misleading. Unlike other teams that can generate a pass rush with 3 or 4 guys, because they have playmaking pass rushers, our sacks came a little different. With the exception of a small handful of sacks, our sacks either came from coverage sacks (hard to believe eh), blitzes or the opposing QB knowing if he held the ball a little longer than he would against most teams, a huge play would open up with one of his receivers down field. Though we did pretty good when it came to sacks...our qb hurries, hits and knockdowns were atrocious.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

*Our sack totals were a little misleading. Unlike other teams that can generate a pass rush with 3 or 4 guys, because they have playmaking pass rushers, our sacks came a little different. With the exception of a small handful of sacks, our sacks either came from coverage sacks (hard to believe eh), blitzes or the opposing QB knowing if he held the ball a little longer than he would against most teams, a huge play would open up with one of his receivers down field. Though we did pretty good when it came to sacks...our qb hurries, hits and knockdowns were atrocious.

this is easily one of the best points i've seen made on this board in a long time. generating sacks alone is nice, but not completely effective if you can't generate them out of base defense without blitzing. for every effective blitz resulting in a sack you're likely giving up 2 or 3 first downs or even TDs as a result of having to bring extra defenders. so yes, our scheme was able to dial up more sacks, but it also left us a lot more vulnerable than if we had a stud passrusher who could single-handedly generate heat.

 

[Duckjake]

How many big hitting CBs do you know of? Please tell me.

I agreed with almost everything else you said except this. I just watch too many other teams whose secondary makes crisp hard open field tackles while our guys dive into the ground grabbing air or actually run away from the ball carrier*. It's not just that our guys aren't big hitters, they don't hit at all.

I got so upset at Rod Hood doing this that I started a thread on it two years ago. Now DRC and McFadden are doing it. It has to be something inherent in the defensive philosophy of the Cardinals.

 

[DoTheDew]

Branch was a DT in college, not the NG. Watson and Terrance Taylor occupied that spot at Michigan. A 3-4 DE typically is a 4-3 DT. Stop hating on the player. It's not Branch's fault, nor was it Calvin Pace's or Antrel Rolle's fault that they were drafted out of position for team's scheme at that time.

Not to nit-pick but Michigan ran a 3-4 often and would put Branch at DE in that line-up. He was usually next to Watson in their 3-4 in fact before Watson came here. Yes he was a DT when they went with 4 down linemen, but they were a 3-4 team for much of Branch's college career there.

 

[Catfish]

Hey CardsfanMD, Did you even read my posts? There is no hating on any of our players. I only said what is evident. Branch and Watson were brought in to be our Nose Tackle tandem. Branch has since moved to DE (although he does sub occasionally at Nose). Watson has been injured and came back much weaker than he was prior to the injury. We have not had his full services for one and a half seasons now. Who knows if he will be strong this year? I said that Robinson is smallish at the nose and is getting up in years. The fact that he still is our starter, shows how far Watson has to go the get back to where he was. Bottom line, we STILL need a kickass nose tackle who can command the double team so that our DE's can work free into the backfield to harrass the QB.

I did not hate on DRC. I only stated that he plays only the pass, and will not tackle. This is a trend started by none other than Deion Sanders, and in my estimation it stinks. Right now he is not in the HOF, but he will probably get there. He wouldn't get there with my vote though, because he never played the run, and would frequently turn his back to the ball carrier. Our entire secondary plays like this with the exception of Adrian Wilson, and is a HUGE reason why we play so soft at the end of games. How different would the Titans game have been if just one DB would have forced a tackle on 4th down in any one of the 4 situations where they went for it and made it on 4th and long. How many other games might have been won, INCLUDING THE SUPERBOWL IF WE COULD HAVE MADE JUST ONE STOP ON THE OPPONENT'S LAST BIG DRIVE.

I am not hating on anybody, not Branch, not DRC, not Rolle, and for sure not Darnell Docket or Callais Campbell. If everyone else played like those two did this year on defense, we would be in the Super Bowl, not the Saints.

I am pointing out weaknesses that need to be addressed, and until we address them, we will suffer more of the same. We can't score our way out of everything. We need a defense that keeps our offense in the game. That starts with a nasty nose tackle in the 3-4 which is the base defense we play. We don't have one right now, and until we get one, we can kiss solid defense goodby, just like we did with our soft secondary.

 

[WildBB]

I say add a NT, CB that hits, (see Devin McCourty, from Rutgers),
Two linebackers, one outside, and one inside, and a FS that can stay with a receiver and is fast enough to cover some ground.

I'd love to have McCourty from the little I've seen him. I'm all for drafting D this year and I believe you'll see it, big time.

Still a little concerned with the overall OL though.

 

[Lorenzo]

Dan Cody!! I hope the cowboys get him! either that or move leorard davis over to that spot.

but in all seriousness yes. Every true 34 defense needs to have a plug to stop the run in the middle. look at dallas....jay ratliff made the pro bowl, but he is not a run stuffing nose tackle. He is strong enough to hold fort and athletic enough to run down a QB or RB in the backfield and make glamour plays. but he can be neutralized with a double team. look at guys like casey hampton, jamal williams, and vince wilfork who dominate the front against the run.

 

[kerouac9]

Cards were 17th against the run last year. That's not really the problem. The problem was their 24th-place rating against the pass.

A bonus-baby nose tackle isn't really going to change that. As DJ said earlier, this is a QB-driven league now, and that doesn't look to be changing.

Pass rush pass rush pass rush pass rush.

 

[Stout]

Cards were 17th against the run last year. That's not really the problem. The problem was their 24th-place rating against the pass.

A bonus-baby nose tackle isn't really going to change that. As DJ said earlier, this is a QB-driven league now, and that doesn't look to be changing.

Pass rush pass rush pass rush pass rush.

Certainly the pass defense was a bigger problem, but the run was definitely a big problem too. 17th in the league is misleading, because how many times were we in 5-man fronts and pounding the line with run blitzes? Yeah, that'll help out your overall numbers against the run (although we were still burned by it plenty, especially late in the year), but it leaves your defense wide open to play action...which made our pass defense worse.

I want a nose tackle, yes, and I want one high in the draft, but only if the value is there.

 

[kerouac9]

Certainly the pass defense was a bigger problem, but the run was definitely a big problem too. 17th in the league is misleading, because how many times were we in 5-man fronts and pounding the line with run blitzes? Yeah, that'll help out your overall numbers against the run (although we were still burned by it plenty, especially late in the year), but it leaves your defense wide open to play action...which made our pass defense worse.

I want a nose tackle, yes, and I want one high in the draft, but only if the value is there.

You could just as easily say that our run defense number is inflated because we faced such a great number of very good RBs this year. Frank Gore twice, Chris Johnson, Steven Jackson, MoJo, Steve Slaton, DeAngelo Williams, etc. And that our pass defense number should be even more troubling because we got shredded by the likes of Vince Young, Alex Smith, etc.

I think we need help at NT. There's no question about that. But some of our rush defense woes this season I saw as being a limited Gerald Hayes who wasn't filling gaps in the middle like he's done in the past.

It's not that I don't trust our scouting department to locate NTs. I think they did a great job with Bryan Robinson, who was better than I think any of us expected. But I think people should look carefully at more than weights as they decide who's a one-gap and who's a two-gap DT in the draft.

 

[Stout]

You could just as easily say that our run defense number is inflated because we faced such a great number of very good RBs this year. Frank Gore twice, Chris Johnson, Steven Jackson, MoJo, Steve Slaton, DeAngelo Williams, etc. And that our pass defense number should be even more troubling because we got shredded by the likes of Vince Young, Alex Smith, etc.

I think we need help at NT. There's no question about that. But some of our rush defense woes this season I saw as being a limited Gerald Hayes who wasn't filling gaps in the middle like he's done in the past.

It's not that I don't trust our scouting department to locate NTs. I think they did a great job with Bryan Robinson, who was better than I think any of us expected. But I think people should look carefully at more than weights as they decide who's a one-gap and who's a two-gap DT in the draft.

Oh, I agree that we shouldn't just see a big fatty and say he's our NT salvation. I just think it isn't the time to say that picking a guy like Cody in the 1st would be stupid. We don't even have a clear reference as to where players are going to be ranked heading into the draft, and we will not know which players the coaches truly covet. Cody could move to the top ten, or he could fall to the 4th round, based on the coming month-and-a-half.

As to what we need to repair on defense, I think we should target the best defensive player out there that fits our system in the first round. The only reason we should go offense is if a top-ten talent on our board falls to us. Otherwise, go with defense. If that's a MLB, an OLB, a NT, then you go with it. Heck, they might even decide on a CB or a S. I think DE is pretty much not going to be on the list for the 1st round, although I desperately covet Odrick.

 

[Mulli]

Oh, I agree that we shouldn't just see a big fatty and say he's our NT salvation. I just think it isn't the time to say that picking a guy like Cody in the 1st would be stupid. We don't even have a clear reference as to where players are going to be ranked heading into the draft, and we will not know which players the coaches truly covet. Cody could move to the top ten, or he could fall to the 4th round, based on the coming month-and-a-half.

As to what we need to repair on defense, I think we should target the best defensive player out there that fits our system in the first round. The only reason we should go offense is if a top-ten talent on our board falls to us. Otherwise, go with defense. If that's a MLB, an OLB, a NT, then you go with it. Heck, they might even decide on a CB or a S. I think DE is pretty much not going to be on the list for the 1st round, although I desperately covet Odrick.

Agree.

 

[Proteus]

You could just as easily say that our run defense number is inflated because we faced such a great number of very good RBs this year. Frank Gore twice, Chris Johnson, Steven Jackson, MoJo, Steve Slaton, DeAngelo Williams, etc. And that our pass defense number should be even more troubling because we got shredded by the likes of Vince Young, Alex Smith, etc.

I think we need help at NT. There's no question about that. But some of our rush defense woes this season I saw as being a limited Gerald Hayes who wasn't filling gaps in the middle like he's done in the past.

It's not that I don't trust our scouting department to locate NTs. I think they did a great job with Bryan Robinson, who was better than I think any of us expected. But I think people should look carefully at more than weights as they decide who's a one-gap and who's a two-gap DT in the draft.

The 49ers were 3rd in yards per carry allowed with 3.4 ypc and we were in a 5 way tie with 4.5 ypc while facing most of the same backs.

Next year we'll be playing a lot of those backs again : Frank Gore (twice), Steven Jackson (twice), and DeAngelo Williams.

Steve Slaton wasn't a very good back this season with his whopping 3.3 ypc.

Can Gerald Hayes get back to full health and stay there?