The Durant Sweepstakes

Covert Rain

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Deandre Ayton is worth the max if Michael Porter Jr. and Zion Williamson are worth the max.
Team's value the Foward positions higher than center it appears. On top of that Zion by many is still considered a potential generational player. Michael Porter Jr was also projected originally to be a Superstar. Ayton plays center has never been projected to be that level of a player. I am not saying that Zion or Porter JR. gets there either.

Just the reality of today's NBA.
 

Mainstreet

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Team's value the Foward positions higher than center it appears. On top of that Zion by many is still considered a potential generational player. Michael Porter Jr was also projected originally to be a Superstar. Ayton plays center has never been projected to be that level of a player. I am not saying that Zion or Porter JR. gets there either.

Just the reality of today's NBA.

The reality of the situation is the Suns do not value young talent. They didn't even bring in any undrafted free agents from the 2022 draft.
 

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If it's market value, you will get it unless you undervalue it.

Neither MPJ or Zion is a Center. Zion is a dominant jack of all trades forward, similar to Giannis except shorter. MPJ is an offensive dynamo who can score from anywhere on the court over anyone.

Ayton is a defensive Center who isn't a great rim protector but is average in that regard. What he excels at defensively is switching onto the perimeter but he's also proven he can't get back to the basket and help as a weak side deterrent or rebounder. On offense he's a good shooter but ultimately his strength is scoring around the basket, which the league is moving away from more and more, especially when guys can't get to the basket on their own and need to be set up.

Market value for a Center like Ayton isn't what Zion and MPJ got but more in line with guys like Nurkic, Jonas Valencunis, Wendell Carter, Mitchell Robinson. Their games are closer to Ayton than MPJ or Zion..
 

Chaplin

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The reality of the situation is the Suns do not value young talent. They didn't even bring in any undrafted free agents from the 2022 draft.
That is quite an accusation. At this moment in time, I think they value players that will get them to a championship. Doesn't matter if they are "young" or not. This is a business, you don't sign players just to sign them. You overvalue every fringe player out there, so this isn't a surprising take. The reality isn't that they don't like young players, the reality is that they don't care about young players that won't make a big contribution to a championship run. Rightly or wrongly, that's how it is.
 

Proximo

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Deandre Ayton is worth the max if Michael Porter Jr. and Zion Williamson are worth the max.

Actually you are pretty much just worth what the market is willing to pay you. Sometimes that means you get lucky and get overpaid like Porter, but more times than not the market gets close to your value.
 

Proximo

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That is quite an accusation. At this moment in time, I think they value players that will get them to a championship. Doesn't matter if they are "young" or not. This is a business, you don't sign players just to sign them. You overvalue every fringe player out there, so this isn't a surprising take. The reality isn't that they don't like young players, the reality is that they don't care about young players that won't make a big contribution to a championship run. Rightly or wrongly, that's how it is.
I don't think it's an accusation, I think it is certified fact.

James Jones has said he does not like inexperienced players in interviews, and the roster speaks for itself - other than Ayton, who is leaving there are no players you can really describe as young on it. Even the 2 way guys he goes after typically are 25 or older.
 

Mainstreet

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Actually you are pretty much just worth what the market is willing to pay you. Sometimes that means you get lucky and get overpaid like Porter, but more times than not the market gets close to your value.

At least we don't have long to wait as the NBA Moratorium ends tomorrow.
 

Covert Rain

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The reality of the situation is the Suns do not value young talent. They didn't even bring in any undrafted free agents from the 2022 draft.
The reality is the Suns value of Ayton seems to match many other teams in the NBA when it comes to Centers with those numbers. In retrospect it looks like the Suns were right. So I don’t think you can say Ayton’s situation is all about them not valuing young talent.
 

cheesebeef

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Actually you are pretty much just worth what the market is willing to pay you. Sometimes that means you get lucky and get overpaid like Porter, but more times than not the market gets close to your value.
This.
 

Mainstreet

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The reality is the Suns value of Ayton seems to match many other teams in the NBA when it comes to Centers with those numbers. In retrospect it looks like the Suns were right. So I don’t think you can say Ayton’s situation is all about them not valuing young talent.

If the Suns were right they wouldn't have drafted Ayton. We will find out his market value soon enough.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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If it's market value, you will get it unless you undervalue it.
Except sometimes you don’t get it, which means it wasn’t market value for you. I swear if good business people made bad transactions because other people made bad transactions society would’ve crumbled around us.
 

Mainstreet

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Except sometimes you don’t get it, which means it wasn’t market value for you. I swear if good business people made bad transactions because other people made bad transactions society would’ve crumbled around us.

Deals for free agents can't be consummated until tomorrow yet people are willing to give Ayton away for pennies on the dollar.

Btw, we were talking about a shirt.
 

GatorAZ

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Indiana has two first rd picks next year after the Brogdon deal. If we could flip Ayton to Indy for Turner/picks (extend Turner for 3/60) and send six 1st rounders to Brooklyn with Bridges, Saric and Craig I’d be on board.
 

AzStevenCal

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Deandre Ayton is worth the max if Michael Porter Jr. and Zion Williamson are worth the max.
Yes to the Porter comparison but no on the Zion comp IMO. New Orleans gave themselves a lot of protection on that max deal, similar to what Philadelphia did with their oft-injured star so they won't be as exposed as the numbers suggest.

Zion missed a lot of games and obviously they have to be scared to death about his health and his weight but he showed true superstar ability when he did play. I'd wager DA will have a better overall career than Williamson but if that guy gets and stays healthy/in shape he'll rack up several MVP awards.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Deals for free agents can't be consummated until tomorrow yet people are willing to give Ayton away for pennies on the dollar.

Btw, we were talking about a shirt.
Who, exactly, is talking about giving him away for pennies on the dollar? People are just beginning to be realistic that (a) he wants out; and (b) the demand for him just doesn’t seem to be as great as it was made out to be.

And I have no idea what you’re talking about regarding a shirt.
 

Mainstreet

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Who, exactly, is talking about giving him away for pennies on the dollar? People are just beginning to be realistic that (a) he wants out; and (b) the demand for him just doesn’t seem to be as great as it was made out to be.

And I have no idea what you’re talking about regarding a shirt.

It's in regard to post #675.
 

Mainstreet

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Indiana has two first rd picks next year after the Brogdon deal. If we could flip Ayton to Indy for Turner/picks (extend Turner for 3/60) and send six 1st rounders to Brooklyn with Bridges, Saric and Craig I’d be on board.

If Turner could be extended that wouldn't be a bad trade.
 

Covert Rain

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If the Suns were right they wouldn't have drafted Ayton. We will find out his market value soon enough.
How so? Drafting a player and wanting to pay his market value when his contract are up are different things. You are acting like it’s been only the Suns balking at paying him the max. Someone might step up but I believe there are only two teams left with enough cap space to sign him to a 4 year max offer. Detroit and Indiana right?
 

Mainstreet

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How so? Drafting a player and wanting to pay his market value when his contract are up are different things. You are acting like it’s been only the Suns balking at paying him the max. Someone might step up but I believe there are only two teams left with enough cap space to sign him to a 4 year max offer. Detroit and Indiana right?

We will not know Ayton's market value until the moratorium is lifted.

There are sign-and-trade options as well.
 

AzStevenCal

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Indiana has two first rd picks next year after the Brogdon deal. If we could flip Ayton to Indy for Turner/picks (extend Turner for 3/60) and send six 1st rounders to Brooklyn with Bridges, Saric and Craig I’d be on board.
Yuck. Just yuck. He's due to recieve 193 Million over the next 4 years, how many NBA players are worth that kind of money in their mid to late 30's? On top of that overpay you want us to give up all our picks/swaps plus Ayton and Bridges? Scary move IMO.
 

cheesebeef

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Deals for free agents can't be consummated until tomorrow yet people are willing to give Ayton away for pennies on the dollar.
Who is willing to give Ayton away for pennies on the dollar? There are people worried the SUNS are going to give Ayton away for pennies on the dollar and aren’t happy about that.
 

Mainstreet

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Who is willing to give Ayton away for pennies on the dollar? There are people worried the SUNS are going to give Ayton away for pennies on the dollar and aren’t happy about that.

There are those in the media who have suggested sign-and-trades like that.

I do worry that James Jones may undervalue Ayton's value. I'm hoping that is incorrect.
 

cheesebeef

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There are those in the media who have suggested sign-and-trades like that.

I do worry that James Jones may undervalue Ayton's value. I'm hoping that is incorrect.
Ah, I thought you meant posters here.

And we might have to face facts… Ayton might not be that valued in the league. Listening to multiple radio shows, national and local in Phoenix, it seems like very few people see Ayton as a big trade chip and certainly not anything close to the type of player to build a blockbuster trade around.
 

Mainstreet

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Ah, I thought you meant posters here.

And we might have to face facts… Ayton might not be that valued in the league. Listening to multiple radio shows, national and local in Phoenix, it seems like very few people see Ayton as a big trade chip and certainly not anything close to the type of player to build a blockbuster trade around.

I think most of the posters here are hoping for the best.

As I understand it, the Nets couldn't take Ayton's new contract if they wanted too unless it's a multi-team trade.

If a team gives Ayton an offer sheet I hope the Suns match and trade him at a later date if they must.
 

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