The Ayton Plan

[Cheesebeef]

True in the public sense. However, it helps his team knows with certainty he was always getting a max coming out of this situation.

yeah, but the same could be said about Kyler. That dude is going to get paid eventually, just a question of who? Also, coming off that monster post-season and gettting within 2 wins of the title, I actually think Ayton had and has a bigger leg to stand on than Kyler... no pun intended.

 

[Mainstreet]

yeah, but the same could be said about Kyler. That dude is going to get paid eventually, just a question of who? Also, coming off that monster post-season and gettting within 2 wins of the title, I actually think Ayton had and has a bigger leg to stand on than Kyler... no pun intended.

Yeah. If I were to bet who has the better career, I would pick Ayton.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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His talking game has improved by leaps and bounds.

 

[Cheesebeef]

His talking game has improved by leaps and bounds.

thing is, I buy him and what he's saying too. I don't think it's lip-service. the team's culture wouldn't allow him to make himself bigger than the team. So much credit has to go to Monty/James Jones for creating that out of a complete and utter trash heap.

and... as much as I hate the guy, Sarver deserves credit as well for hiring those guys.

 

[Mainstreet]

thing is, I buy him and what he's saying too. I don't think it's lip-service. the team's culture wouldn't allow him to make himself bigger than the team. So much credit has to go to Monty/James Jones for creating that out of a complete and utter trash heap.

and... as much as I hate the guy, Sarver deserves credit as well for hiring those guys.

Agree. Ayton wants to be that guy.

Sarver does deserve credit for hiring James Jones, Monty Williams and paying Chris Paul. It doesn't happen without his commitment to winning.

 

[Chaplin]

His talking game has improved by leaps and bounds.

Well, he did say that he needed to improve his rebounding. And what did he do? The very next game he had 19 REBOUNDS.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

thing is, I buy him and what he's saying too. I don't think it's lip-service. the team's culture wouldn't allow him to make himself bigger than the team. So much credit has to go to Monty/James Jones for creating that out of a complete and utter trash heap.

and... as much as I hate the guy, Sarver deserves credit as well for hiring those guys.

I wasn’t talking ish. I was just pointing out that he’s gone from entering the league talking about a second contract to talking about winning. That’s a sign of positive influences rubbing off on him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wasn’t talking ish. I was just pointing out that he’s gone from entering the league talking about a second contract to talking about winning. That’s a sign of positive influences rubbing off on him.

Didn’t accuse you of talking ish so shut your damn mouth!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Didn’t accuse you of talking ish so shut your damn mouth!

We need better influences to rub off on you!

 

[Cheesebeef]

We need better influences to rub off on you!

I'd take anyone to rub on or off me at this point!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not only has Ayton’s rebounding gone in the tank save one explosion, but he’s shot 7 free throws in the last 9 games. That’s .78 free throw attempts per game. We know he doesn’t shoot a lot of them, but come on big guy, you just can’t continue to play this soft. 15 games this season without even a single FT attempt.

 

[Hoop Head]

Not only has Ayton’s rebounding gone in the tank save one explosion, but he’s shot 7 free throws in the last 9 games. That’s .78 free throw attempts per game. We know he doesn’t shoot a lot of them, but come on big guy, you just can’t continue to play this soft. 15 games this season without even a single FT attempt.

There is no excuse for someone's whose entire offense is based on playing at the rim. That's how guards get so many FT attempts, attacking the basket.

He's really not playing like a max player. He'll get the max but any hope of getting that extra year, that he wanted, is basically gone. I don't see JJ giving it to him even if he has a great postseason either. He disappears far too often.

I won't be heart broken if we decide to seek out a sign and trade either. I'm not sure who we'd bring back but I imagine we could find a solid defensive big who costs a fraction what Ayton will and won't disappear nearly as often.

 

[Chaplin]

Not only has Ayton’s rebounding gone in the tank save one explosion, but he’s shot 7 free throws in the last 9 games. That’s .78 free throw attempts per game. We know he doesn’t shoot a lot of them, but come on big guy, you just can’t continue to play this soft. 15 games this season without even a single FT attempt.

His low rebound numbers aren’t as egregious vs Toronto, he wasn’t getting a lot of help there. He was consistently surrounded by three players on the glass and they all had extremely long arms.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

His low rebound numbers aren’t as egregious vs Toronto, he wasn’t getting a lot of help there. He was consistently surrounded by three players on the glass and they all had extremely long arms.

I’d take that as a valid excuse if we didn’t see other players still grab volume rebounds when they’re the biggest guy on the floor and no one is helping. Not to mention, this 7 rebound game is not far removed from his spate of 16 games averaging 8 per game. Makes the 19 and 10 of the last two games outliers.

All that said, I didn’t watch the game, so I have no real idea the effort. And I know you don’t shrink from criticizing Ayton, so I’ll take your word.

 

[Chaplin]

I’d take that as a valid excuse if we didn’t see other players still grab volume rebounds when they’re the biggest guy on the floor and no one is helping. Not to mention, this 7 rebound game is not far removed from his spate of 16 games averaging 8 per game. Makes the 19 and 10 of the last two games outliers.

All that said, I didn’t watch the game, so I have no real idea the effort. And I know you don’t shrink from criticizing Ayton, so I’ll take your word.

He had a few questionable plays but in this game I didn’t think Ayton was bad.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There is no excuse for someone's whose entire offense is based on playing at the rim. That's how guards get so many FT attempts, attacking the basket.

He's really not playing like a max player. He'll get the max but any hope of getting that extra year, that he wanted, is basically gone. I don't see JJ giving it to him even if he has a great postseason either. He disappears far too often.

I won't be heart broken if we decide to seek out a sign and trade either. I'm not sure who we'd bring back but I imagine we could find a solid defensive big who costs a fraction what Ayton will and won't disappear nearly as often.

I have my concerns about DA but I have to say, I don't just think you're wrong I think you're incredibly wrong.

Even on his bad nights he's one of the best big men we've ever had and we've searched forever for a big man like him that can play both sides of the ball. Secondly, he has stepped up in big moments and while I'd like consistency from him nightly, I'll take a guy who shines in big moments over any "solid defensive big" in the game today.

I'm not in any way equating these two but I remember similar complaints about Shaq after they won their first championship. All too often he'd mail it in on defense and he'd miss a fair amount of games too but when it counted he was the most dominant force in the game. DA is not that force but he is still a matchup nightmare for the rest of the league when he's focused.

If we decide to trade him, I think we'll regret it for a few million years unless our return nets us a young two way star big man that other teams HAVE to account for every night. He's so frustrating but it's the gap between his good nights and bad nights that has us on edge with him. But most of his bad nights are still better than most centers in the game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I have my concerns about DA but I have to say, I don't just think you're wrong I think you're incredibly wrong.

Even on his bad nights he's one of the best big men we've ever had and we've searched forever for a big man like him that can play both sides of the ball. Secondly, he has stepped up in big moments and while I'd like consistency from him nightly, I'll take a guy who shines in big moments over any "solid defensive big" in the game today.

I'm not in any way equating these two but I remember similar complaints about Shaq after they won their first championship. All too often he'd mail it in on defense and he'd miss a fair amount of games too but when it counted he was the most dominant force in the game. DA is not that force but he is still a matchup nightmare for the rest of the league when he's focused.

If we decide to trade him, I think we'll regret it for a few million years unless our return nets us a young two way star big man that other teams HAVE to account for every night. He's so frustrating but it's the gap between his good nights and bad nights that has us on edge with him. But most of his bad nights are still better than most centers in the game.

Agreed

 

[Cheesebeef]

He had a few questionable plays but in this game I didn’t think Ayton was bad.

i thought the Raptors set the tone early rebounding wise when Ayton had 2 first half rebounds. He was okay last night. But I won't pin the loss on him. It was a team effort to lose that one.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Agreed

borg.

 

[Hoop Head]

I have my concerns about DA but I have to say, I don't just think you're wrong I think you're incredibly wrong.

Even on his bad nights he's one of the best big men we've ever had and we've searched forever for a big man like him that can play both sides of the ball. Secondly, he has stepped up in big moments and while I'd like consistency from him nightly, I'll take a guy who shines in big moments over any "solid defensive big" in the game today.

I'm not in any way equating these two but I remember similar complaints about Shaq after they won their first championship. All too often he'd mail it in on defense and he'd miss a fair amount of games too but when it counted he was the most dominant force in the game. DA is not that force but he is still a matchup nightmare for the rest of the league when he's focused.

If we decide to trade him, I think we'll regret it for a few million years unless our return nets us a young two way star big man that other teams HAVE to account for every night. He's so frustrating but it's the gap between his good nights and bad nights that has us on edge with him. But most of his bad nights are still better than most centers in the game.

Because the Suns have such a bad history with Centers doesn't mean we should pay top dollar for someone who is above average. Above average is our best ever, which is more of an indictment of previous talent than praise to DA.

I get it that he shows up in big moments like he did in the playoffs last year but a lot of good that will do if we don't get there. He's been little help in us being the best team in the league this year. His impact this season has been about the same as McGee, Biyombo, or Jalen Smith when he was given time. That's not worth max money. I know it'll be hard to replace but I trust the front office if that's what they decide to do.

 

[GatorAZ]

Ayton’s RFA max which we’d match is 4 years // $133m

1st year: $30.2m
2nd year: $31.7m
3rd year: $33.3m
4th year: $35m

It’s a lot but not franchise crippling. The 5-year max with 8% instead of 5% raises probably would’ve drained us.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ayton’s RFA max which we’d match is 4 years // $133m

1st year: $30.2m
2nd year: $31.7m
3rd year: $33.3m
4th year: $35m

It’s a lot but not franchise crippling. The 5-year max with 8% instead of 5% raises probably would’ve drained us.

with cap going up, would it look as bad? i know all contracts will go up accordingly but if we get him at the MAX before the cap goes up, we get a little better deal, no?

 

[sportscentral]

as long as ayton and chris paul stay together who knows what will happen

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[Hoop Head]

I wish contracts could be front loaded for the max. Pay him the max because what I worry about with Ayton the most is when Chris Paul is gone.

 

[Phrazbit]

Ayton’s RFA max which we’d match is 4 years // $133m

1st year: $30.2m
2nd year: $31.7m
3rd year: $33.3m
4th year: $35m

It’s a lot but not franchise crippling. The 5-year max with 8% instead of 5% raises probably would’ve drained us.

I don't think we're getting that deal. No one is going to do us the favor of offering him a contract that they know we will match. If we don't sign him before free agency it is going to fester, teams are going to sit back, tell him if he was on their team they'd offer him a 5 year deal, bash the Suns for not doing so, and wait for the relationship to get really toxic.

I hate to say it, but I think he gets traded if we don't come to terms with him before the draft.

He struggles with self motivation (a worry that would be amplified by a big contract), and he often isn't as physical as we would like... but when he has it going he is the absolute perfect center for this team and one of the best in the NBA. If we trade him to a crappy team with a "meh" coach, I think his career will plateau hard, but if he ends up on another contender with guys who keep him accountable then we will look like idiots.