The Ayton Plan

JCSunsfan

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If Saric comes back, we'll have another! Unfortunately none are very effective at the 4, where we could use another piece.
I kinda agree. In my mind, Cam Johnson is a three who plays four. But he has been pretty effective as a four. It is sorta hard to wrap my brain around him just being a four--as in starting level. We have Jae and Cam at the four. It would be nice to have a bigger player as an option there. Jae plays bigger than he is. Stix might be the longer-term solution if somehow miraculously we could keep him.
 

JCSunsfan

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Yeah at some point it might have to be DA covering the minute gaps at the 4 although there's always the small chance that Smith will get as comfortable at the 4 as he's recently become at the 5.
I do think DA could play alongside another center because of his defensive versatility. This would be especially true if the other center had some outside shooting ability.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I kinda agree. In my mind, Cam Johnson is a three who plays four. But he has been pretty effective as a four. It is sorta hard to wrap my brain around him just being a four--as in starting level. We have Jae and Cam at the four. It would be nice to have a bigger player as an option there. Jae plays bigger than he is. Stix might be the longer-term solution if somehow miraculously we could keep him.
I never thought Cam could play 4 before, but he seems to be the best fit of anyone outside of Jae on our roster. He's definitely bulked up, and if he could continue to gain strength, could be a really intriguing stretch 5. If

Very few teams have pound it in the post 4's, and Ayton can clean up a lot of mess.
 

Muggz

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I never thought Cam could play 4 before, but he seems to be the best fit of anyone outside of Jae on our roster. He's definitely bulked up, and if he could continue to gain strength, could be a really intriguing stretch 5. If

Very few teams have pound it in the post 4's, and Ayton can clean up a lot of mess.
I wasn't having much fun watching Cam play the 4. Then he showed up for the bubble w/ 10lbs of extra muscle. Still wasn't great but def passable as a backup. I think he's still gaining muscle and maybe height. I love that he's driving to the rim now and his shot makes my balls tickle.
 

Finito

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The QO is a one-year deal. He is not going to do that. Too risky. I think DA will be happy with a four-year $127.9 million offer. This is business. This is negotiating. JJ is negotiating from a position of strength that was designed to be so by the CBA. If all you are doing is making the person you are negotiating with happy, you have already lost the negotiation. A four-year $127.9 million deal is not an insulting offer.

Your fooling yourself if you think he’s just gonna take what they offer him. If he ends up on that all defense team it’s the Luca Max and it ain’t up for debate.

He wants the Max with the kickers and some team will offer it to him
 

Mainstreet

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Your fooling yourself if you think he’s just gonna take what they offer him. If he ends up on that all defense team it’s the Luca Max and it ain’t up for debate.

He wants the Max with the kickers and some team will offer it to him

As I understand it, another team in free agency can't offer Ayton the max plus incentives ($207 million) the Suns could offer.

Luka was signed for 5 years/ $207 million with incentives.

So the Suns only have to match the max amount another team can offer in order to keep him.

I don't believe another team can offer the incentives or pay Ayton as much as the Suns can in RFA.
 

Finito

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As I understand it, another team in free agency can't offer Ayton the max plus incentives ($207 million) the Suns could offer.

Luka was signed for 5 years/ $207 million with incentives.

So the Suns only have to match the max amount another team can offer in order to keep him.

I don't believe another team can offer the incentives or pay Ayton as much as the Suns can in RFA.

I think it’s a lock he’s getting that max with kickers. He’s not going to take anything less from the Suns and he shouldn’t
 

Mainstreet

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I think it’s a lock he’s getting that max with kickers. He’s not going to take anything less from the Suns and he shouldn’t

I think the Suns will offer Ayton the max but I'm doubtful about the kickers. All the Suns have to do is match an offer in RFA without the bonuses.

Of course Ayton could play out his option but not many players are willing to take the risk of injury.
 

Cheesebeef

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I’ll be stunned if Ayton makes 1st or 2nd team all defense. 1st team is locked up by Rudy, Giannis, Draymond, 2nd Team is gonna go to Embiid at Center and the prob wings. Maybe he takes the spot Bam has taken on those teams the last couple years but I still think people here think much more highly of Ayton’s D than the rest of the basketball watching world.
 

Phrazbit

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Rudy, Giannis, Draymond, Embiid, Thybulle and, of course, Mikal Bridges.

Ayton might have a shot of Draymond misses serious time with this back issue, otherwise I don't see a slot for him.
 

JCSunsfan

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Your fooling yourself if you think he’s just gonna take what they offer him. If he ends up on that all defense team it’s the Luca Max and it ain’t up for debate.

He wants the Max with the kickers and some team will offer it to him
He won't be on the all defensive team. I like him and would love for that to happen, but I just do t see it.
 

JCSunsfan

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I think it’s a lock he’s getting that max with kickers. He’s not going to take anything less from the Suns and he shouldn’t
Well. The great thing is we can revisit this discussion in July and we will know.

I have been proven wrong before.
 

Phrazbit

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Well. The great thing is we can revisit this discussion in July and we will know.

I have been proven wrong before.

I wouldn't be surprised if July comes and goes without him being signed. I think there is a real chance it plays out like Bledsoe's situation did, other teams will not offer him a contract because they know we will match and there is no reason to do us any favors, they'd love to see things get toxic here.

Of course, that goes out the window if we win the whole thing, then he gets paid in full.
 

JCSunsfan

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I wouldn't be surprised if July comes and goes without him being signed. I think there is a real chance it plays out like Bledsoe's situation did, other teams will not offer him a contract because they know we will match and there is no reason to do us any favors, they'd love to see things get toxic here.

Of course, that goes out the window if we win the whole thing, then he gets paid in full.
I wouldn't be surprised by the Bledsoe scenario. He only gets paid in full if he plays like a star in the playoffs. If he turtles it things will get interesting.
 

AzStevenCal

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I wouldn't be surprised by the Bledsoe scenario. He only gets paid in full if he plays like a star in the playoffs. If he turtles it things will get interesting.
I wouldn't either if Ayton had two bad knees and Rich Paul as his agent but otherwise, yeah I think it's an incredible long shot to expect it to go down the same way.
 

Hoop Head

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I think the Bledsoe scenario is less likely nowadays since the waiting time for restricted free agents is down to 48 hours after they sign the offer sheet. That is much better for everyone involved instead of the wait back when Bledsoe was a RFA. I think it was a 7 day wait then, might have been more.
 

AzStevenCal

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I think the Bledsoe scenario is less likely nowadays since the waiting time for restricted free agents is down to 48 hours after they sign the offer sheet. That is much better for everyone involved instead of the wait back when Bledsoe was a RFA. I think it was a 7 day wait then, might have been more.
Plus it was much easier to scare off bidders from the few teams that might have been interested in trading for Eric Bledsoe (and dealing with Rich Paul) as opposed to the almost league-wide market for Ayton.
 

Covert Rain

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Plus it was much easier to scare off bidders from the few teams that might have been interested in trading for Eric Bledsoe (and dealing with Rich Paul) as opposed to the almost league-wide market for Ayton.
All it would likely take is the Suns pre-emptively making a comment that we will match any offer made by any other team and it would do the trick.
 

AzStevenCal

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All it would likely take is the Suns pre-emptively making a comment that we will match any offer made by any other team and it would do the trick.
It was the fear of being tied up for most of the signing period that made this tactic work but two things have changed. First off, they can only tie it up for a small part of the signing period but even more importantly the league made it clear there would be stiff penalties if any organization ever did this again.
 

Covert Rain

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It was the fear of being tied up for most of the signing period that made this tactic work but two things have changed. First off, they can only tie it up for a small part of the signing period but even more importantly the league made it clear there would be stiff penalties if any organization ever did this again.
True but the Suns before the season is out can make it clear they have every intention of signing Ayton in the offseason. I do not believe there is rule to prevent teams from talking about their own players before the free agency/offseason begins.
 

AzStevenCal

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True but the Suns before the season is out can make it clear they have every intention of signing Ayton in the offseason. I do not believe there is rule to prevent teams from talking about their own players before the free agency/offseason begins.
I don't know if that's allowed or not but no, I don't think it would have any impact across the league. Again, once a team makes an offer the owning team can no longer sit on it. We have to decide within 48 hours to match that deal or let him go so the threat is no longer there.
 

Covert Rain

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I don't know if that's allowed or not but no, I don't think it would have any impact across the league. Again, a team can make an offer but the owning team can no longer sit on it. We have to decide within 48 hours to match that deal or let him go so the threat is no longer there.
My point is there will be teams that might think about making an offer. If the Suns announce they have no intention of letting him go that will likely reduce the field for Ayton. The 48 hour thing is moot IMO. The entire maneuvering might be moot. Ayton's team will except nothing less than max and Ayton will get that from the Suns or another team.
 
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AzStevenCal

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My point is there will be teams that might think about making an offer. If the Suns announce they have no intention of letting him go that will likely reduce the field for Ayton. The 48 hour thing is moot IMO. The entire maneuvering might be moot. Ayton's team will except nothing more than max and Ayton will get that from the Suns or another team.
Yes, Ayton will get the max. I believe it will be from us, something would have to change between now and then to keep it from happening (injury, turn into Ben Simmons in the postseason etc.).
 

Covert Rain

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Yes, Ayton will get the max. I believe it will be from us, something would have to change between now and then to keep it from happening (injury, turn into Ben Simmons in the postseason etc.).
I am just not sure what the Suns do in the offseason should they not win the title this year. Chris will fall off a cliff at some point and there won't be any slowly falling off. I am worried about what Sarver will do with the guys we have locked up and adding Ayton's contract on top of that will do with his decision making with the rest of the roster. I am going to enjoy this season because I won't be surprised if Sarver mucks things up for money next season.
 
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Mainstreet

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I am just not sure what the Suns do in the offseason should they not win the title this year. Chris he will fall off a cliff at some point and there won't be any slowly falling off. I am worried about what Sarver will do with the guys we have locked up and adding Ayton's contract on top of that will do with his decision making with the rest of the roster. I am going to enjoy this season because I won't be surprised if Sarver mucks things up for money next season.

I'd ride with this same group next season aside from some minor tweaks. A power forward and a replacement for Payton would be my primary focus. Hopefully the Suns can keep Ayton, McGee, Biyombo and Cam Johnson.

Sarver may not be around after the NBA investigation.
 

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