The Ayton Plan

[1Sun]

Yeah, this story is completely loaded against Sarver but I highly doubt Woj has any access to the front office doings. Until I see otherwise, I'm going to assume they are arguing over which max contract is his comp. Ayton's agent is pushing for Luka treatment, the FO wants to deal with him like he's MPJ. In the end, it will probably land between them.

Just FYI, Woj is easily the best and most reliable NBA reporter out there. He is almost never wrong.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just remember who on this board called it first, when nobody else would...

I've never seen someone so needy, you have to be the worst "pre-gloater" I've ever seen. You make a million ridiculous statements and then you try to claim success with your predictions the minute a rumor starts that supports your position. If this is that important to your ego could you at least save the gloating until something actually happens?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, this story is completely loaded against Sarver but I highly doubt Woj has any access to the front office doings. Until I see otherwise, I'm going to assume they are arguing over which max contract is his comp. Ayton's agent is pushing for Luka treatment, the FO wants to deal with him like he's MPJ. In the end, it will probably land between them.

Lol... you guys keep doubting Woj, even though he’s the most respected basketball journalist who consistently has scoops from inside every team for years.

 

[Chaplin]

If this goes south, you can take solace in the nuance of the negotiations.

This is a black and white negotiation - either you pay him what the market dictates, or you risk alienating him or having him walk. Sarver et al can play as many semantic games as they want, but this is not a complicated negotiation. Pay the man.

You completely missed the point.

 

[Chaplin]

Lol... you guys keep doubting Woj, even though he’s the most respected basketball journalist who consistently has scoops from inside every team for years.

Who's doubting Woj?

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah, this story is completely loaded against Sarver but I highly doubt Woj has any access to the front office doings. Until I see otherwise, I'm going to assume they are arguing over which max contract is his comp. Ayton's agent is pushing for Luka treatment, the FO wants to deal with him like he's MPJ. In the end, it will probably land between them.

I completely disagree. He has gotten the inside scoop multiple times over the years. In fact, I remember multiple times our local guys interviewing him on morning sports radio about his reports...only for our local guys to say they have heard the same thing. Dude is pretty consistent. Not to mention you better believe that the agent or possibly Ayton himself is talking to the press on the side.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If this goes south, you can take solace in the nuance of the negotiations.

This is a black and white negotiation - either you pay him what the market dictates, or you risk alienating him or having him walk. Sarver et al can play as many semantic games as they want, but this is not a complicated negotiation. Pay the man.

This is a bad, bad story for the Suns. Just when I start getting really interested in them again, this story comes out.

Ayton isn't quite worth the max, but few players really are. There is almost always a risk when you sign a player long term.

This team used to throw out big contracts to very risky guys. It would work sometimes, and it would fail others. The alternative is to not give out big contracts or only give them to guys who are 100% deserving of them....which is exceedingly rare.

 

[Covert Rain]

This is a bad, bad story for the Suns. Just when I start getting really interested in them again, this story comes out.

Ayton isn't quite worth the max, but few players really are. There is almost always a risk when you sign a player long term.

This team used to throw out big contracts to very risky guys. It would work sometimes, and it would fail others. The alternative is to not give out big contracts or only give them to guys who are 100% deserving of them....which is exceedingly rare.

There would be teams lining up to sign him to the max. So he is worth the max. I get what you are saying that from purely a production standpoint he might not be up to snuff but the market says he is max.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lol... you guys keep doubting Woj, even though he’s the most respected basketball journalist who consistently has scoops from inside every team for years.

I'm not doubting him, I'm suggesting this story is told from just one angle.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You completely missed the point.

Ha, not at all. You think this is a complicated negotiation, I do not. The market is set - it's a matter of whether or not Sarver will pay up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ha, not at all. You think this is a complicated negotiation, I do not. The market is set - it's a matter of whether or not Sarver will pay up.

Is it? Yes, he's going to get a max deal but not all max deals are created equal. What if he's demanding something like a player option for year 4 and 5? Do we just bend over and give it to him? We've been hearing for more than a month that the deal probably won't be done until October 8th, maybe it's just taking that long?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Is it? Yes, he's going to get a max deal but not all max deals are created equal. What if he's demanding something like a player option for year 4 and 5? Do we just bend over and give it to him? We've been hearing for more than a month that the deal probably won't be done until October 8th, maybe it's just taking that long?

Yes, it's possible that he's demanding something outlandish, but what seems more likely...that Ayton is holding out for something ridiculous, or that Sarver is trying to get the best deal?

Hopefully this is all posturing, but if it ends up that the Ayton camp wasn't holding out for something out of the ordinary, and Sarver made it unnecessarily complicated, that would undo a lot of the good will created last year.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yes, it's possible that he's demanding something outlandish, but what seems more likely...that Ayton is holding out for something ridiculous, or that Sarver is trying to get the best deal?

Hopefully this is all posturing, but if it ends up that the Ayton camp wasn't holding out for something out of the ordinary, and Sarver made it unnecessarily complicated, that would undo a lot of the good will created last year.

I have no idea. I'm confident that Sarver will try to get the best deal he can, I'm not willing to accept that he'll sabotage the future for pennies though. He's had plenty of opportunities to see that you have to spend money in this league to make money and with possibility of gambling income, I believe he knows this team has to be relevant.

I'm not very knowledgeable about the cap or player deals but I suspect we're trying to avoid the language that will put us into super max territory if DA happens to qualify or they are arguing over a player/team 5th year option. Maybe something like the way MPJ's contract was set up where the final year is only partially guaranteed.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Ken Kendrick is so happy to read this story.

Ayton is absolutely in Young / Doncic land because he is a do everything center.

I wouldn't trade Bridges for MPJ straight up.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not doubting him, I'm suggesting this story is told from just one angle.

why?

 

[TJ]

Ken Kendrick is so happy to read this story.

Ayton is absolutely in Young / Doncic land because he is a do everything center.

I wouldn't trade Bridges for MPJ straight up.

Ayton is a far more polished as a defender than almost everyone in that draft class. Doncic is worthless on the defensive end, but his offensive game is out of this world.

The max extension is a no-brainer and those who are doubting it either have had their heads in the sand for the past several months, or dont understand how the market works in basketball. There are about 20 +/- center-needy teams in the league. If Ayton became a free agent today, he'd have a max contract by dinner time.

 

[Hoop Head]

I still believe playing tough with Ayton's extension factors into playing tough with Mikal also. Had we signed Ayton to a max right away then Mikal's camp has more leverage to push for more. That's part of why having 2 valuable youngsters coming off rookie deals in the same year can be difficult.

We still retain rights to match any offer next summer. I don't want things hanging over the team all season but there's no guarantee that no extension this summer means we can't lock them up next summer.

 

[1Sun]

I still believe playing tough with Ayton's extension factors into playing tough with Mikal also. Had we signed Ayton to a max right away then Mikal's camp has more leverage to push for more. That's part of why having 2 valuable youngsters coming off rookie deals in the same year can be difficult.

We still retain rights to match any offer next summer. I don't want things hanging over the team all season but there's no guarantee that no extension this summer means we can't lock them up next summer.

That is EXACTLY what was said about Joe Johnson at the exact same stage (except Ayton has shown more and has had more lesser players from his draft class sign for the max).

We all know how that turned out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ayton is a far more polished as a defender than almost everyone in that draft class. Doncic is worthless on the defensive end, but his offensive game is out of this world.

The max extension is a no-brainer and those who are doubting it either have had their heads in the sand for the past several months, or dont understand how the market works in basketball. There are about 20 +/- center-needy teams in the league. If Ayton became a free agent today, he'd have a max contract by dinner time.

There's not much doubting here, we all agree he is going to get a max contract. If we blow this there will be a long line of teams trying to get him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ayton is a far more polished as a defender than almost everyone in that draft class. Doncic is worthless on the defensive end, but his offensive game is out of this world.

The max extension is a no-brainer and those who are doubting it either have had their heads in the sand for the past several months, or dont understand how the market works in basketball. There are about 20 +/- center-needy teams in the league. If Ayton became a free agent today, he'd have a max contract by dinner time.

Pfft....he'd have a max contract the moment he was a free agent and probably people ringing his door bell.

 

[1Sun]

There's not much doubting here, we all agree he is going to get a max contract. If we blow this there will be a long line of teams trying to get him.

And this franchise might not ever again sign a free agent worth signing as long as Sarver is the managing general partner of the ownership group.

 

[Proximo]

I will say this, as stupid as this is, the Suns are really at no risk in losing Ayton. He is restricted and they can and will match the max.

There is really no reason not to give him the money now. It just hurts the organization's reputation with every player in the league.

Even if they think Ayton's performance is going to tank this season for some reason, it won't matter. He will still be 23 and have enough potential some team will offer him the max.

 

[1Sun]

I will say this, as stupid as this is, the Suns are really at no risk in losing Ayton. He is restricted and they can and will match the max.

There is really no reason not to give him the money now. It just hurts the organization's reputation with every player in the league.

Even if they think Ayton's performance is going to tank this season for some reason, it won't matter. He will still be 23 and have enough potential some team will offer him the max.

Which means that Sarver STILL hasn't learned his lesson, even after a full decade of being the laughing stock of the league...

 

[Mainstreet]

Theoretically the Suns are not at risk of losing Ayton because the Suns can pay him more money and they can match any offer when he becomes a RFA.

However, once a player sours on a team, it's hard to get that respect back. The Suns don't need a Ben Simmons or a Joe Johnson situation.

 

[Finito]

Yeah, this story is completely loaded against Sarver but I highly doubt Woj has any access to the front office doings. Until I see otherwise, I'm going to assume they are arguing over which max contract is his comp. Ayton's agent is pushing for Luka treatment, the FO wants to deal with him like he's MPJ. In the end, it will probably land between them.

Luka and Ayton aren’t playing for the same extensions. Luka made all NBA that puts him in a different category

Ayton wants those built into his new contract and Suns want a flat max, but if I’m the Suns and you make all NBA that’s great for the team that means you’ve turned into the player we wanted you to be.

Sarver is going to Sarver