The 2022 NBA Play-In Tournament + Playoffs Thread

[Mainstreet]

Point is they didn't assess 2 they called it a flagrant 2. If they had explained it as we called one for the face and one for the pulldown I would not have objected. The ref did mention face and pulldown but he didn't say that equals a 2. It was Javie on tv who explained he thought the hit to the face had to have been the 2 because the pulldown didn't warrant a flagrant since he clearly was trying to hold him up.

My guess is that's what they did but they didn't explain it. Neither of the contacts warrant a 2 IMO, but I can see the argument each of them warrant a 1.

Here is the definition of a Flagrant 2 foul from the NBA. It seems to meet the definition. If there was a strike to the face prior to the take down that would fit item 2. See below:


Flagrant Foul Penalty 2: Unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent

When a flagrant foul call is made, referees conduct a review and consider the following:

1. Whether the foul call be categorized as a flagrant 1 or flagrant 2 (thus ejection) or stay as a common foul or changed to a technical foul
2. Whether any other players committed unsportsmanlike acts immediately prior to and/or immediately following the foul.

Flagrant Fouls

Referees may use replay whenever they are not reasonably certain whether a foul meets the criteria for a flagrant foul. Previously, the foul had to be called flagrant on the floor in order to initiate instant replay. The definition for a flagrant foul is: Flagrant Foul Penalty 1: Unnecessary...

official.nba.com

 

[Mainstreet]

I feel the opposite, I want payback.

I will take an NBA championship over payback.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

lol: even Stat Muse is on on the fun…

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Point is they didn't assess 2 they called it a flagrant 2. If they had explained it as we called one for the face and one for the pulldown I would not have objected. The ref did mention face and pulldown but he didn't say that equals a 2. It was Javie on tv who explained he thought the hit to the face had to have been the 2 because the pulldown didn't warrant a flagrant since he clearly was trying to hold him up.

My guess is that's what they did but they didn't explain it. Neither of the contacts warrant a 2 IMO, but I can see the argument each of them warrant a 1.

Yeah it’s don’t think a dude gets any credit when he pulls a jersey of a guy in the air to the point of it making it dangerous if he they just continues to hold onto the jersey as “I’m trying to hold him up.” That’s after you’ve created the danger, and it’s impossible to hold someone up - particularly a grown nba player - by the jersey. That’s just realizing you got caught and trying to avoid damage to your own team
Imo.

Green is a great defender. He’s also dangerous. He got what was coming to him for that play.

 

[somethingshesaid]

I feel the opposite, I want payback.

This is a difficult philosophical question. Would we like the Suns to meet the harder opponent in the Finals (Bucks, of course) and therefore earn more satisfaction, or meet the easier opponent (Celtics) and have an easier path to a championship?

It depends on how much faith you have in this Suns group. I don't trust it, because it sleepwalks often enough to make me nervous; so I'd rather see them meet the Celtics. (So what if every team sleepwalks. Irrelevant--those teams aren't here.)

And why do I think the Celtics would be the easier opponent? It's not the Bucks' "size and athleticism," it's the Bucks' experience. If the Suns met the Celtics in the finals, the Suns would have the advantage of having some Finals experience while the Celtics would have none at all. It would be like the first couple of games of the 1993 Finals. The Suns looked un-confident, while Phil Jerkson believed his Bulls won due to their greater experience.

 

[Covert Rain]

I was shocked how little effort ja makes on defense. I’d hunt him. It’s not that he’s bad, it’s he just doesn’t even try. I don’t know if he’s bad or good because often he’s nowhere near his man after going for steals. I suppose that’s okay when you’ve got lots of rim protection behind you, but the better teams are going to make you pay in a playoff series.

EXACTLY. You don't get credit for trying to hold a guy up after yanking him down first. Stephen A Smith (the human tool) tried to make that argument. Sorry. He deserved to get tossed. By the rules those both were non-basketball moves.

 

[Russ Smith]

Here is the definition of a Flagrant 2 foul from the NBA. It seems to meet the definition. If there was a strike to the face prior to the take down that would fit item 2. See below:


Flagrant Foul Penalty 2: Unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent

When a flagrant foul call is made, referees conduct a review and consider the following:

1. Whether the foul call be categorized as a flagrant 1 or flagrant 2 (thus ejection) or stay as a common foul or changed to a technical foul
2. Whether any other players committed unsportsmanlike acts immediately prior to and/or immediately following the foul.

Flagrant Fouls

Referees may use replay whenever they are not reasonably certain whether a foul meets the criteria for a flagrant foul. Previously, the foul had to be called flagrant on the floor in order to initiate instant replay. The definition for a flagrant foul is: Flagrant Foul Penalty 1: Unnecessary...

official.nba.com

That seems to be discussing when they call a common foul and then upgrade it. I don't think that's what happened. I don't really care we won without him all I'm saying is if they added the 2 together to get a flagrant 2, tell us that. They would have gotten far less complaining had they said that.

They kind of hinted at it but didn't outright say we had 2 flagrant 1's so that's an ejection

 

[Russ Smith]

lol: even Stat Muse is on on the fun…

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the hometown guys after the game IMO were over the top with that even Adonal Foyle was saying 5 on 8. I thought we had some weird calls or no calls and I didn't like the ejection but I don't think it was THAT bad.

Kerr for his part after the game they asked him he said we fouled too much early, there was some stuff I didn't like and you saw me arguing for those, but the fouls early we just fouled too much.

Curry even who was clearly amused by some of the calls he was asked about Klay saying I played angry in the 2nd half and he said why did he say, I wonder if it's because we missed some shots we should have made. In other words he didn't think Klay should have been mad at the refs.

I think in a weird way the ejection helped the Warriors win it both motivated them in the 2nd half and I think it changed some of the rotations so that Kerr felt he had to play Poole with Steph and Klay and that was really the difference.

 

[Finito]

And literally everyone on ESPN and the guys at halftime etc. He had his left hand on the jersey and then reaches with his right hand to try and hold him up. Damian Lillard, who nearly came to blows with Draymond a couple of years ago, said on twitter he didn't get the call because Draymond tried to hold him up.

And Steve javie who's not a Warrior fan said it can't be for the pulldown because he tried to hold him up so I assume it's for the contact to the face.

Well if ESPN said so then that makes it all better

 

[Mainstreet]

That seems to be discussing when they call a common foul and then upgrade it. I don't think that's what happened. I don't really care we won without him all I'm saying is if they added the 2 together to get a flagrant 2, tell us that. They would have gotten far less complaining had they said that.

They kind of hinted at it but didn't outright say we had 2 flagrant 1's so that's an ejection

I think the definition stands alone but items 1 and 2 are things the referee can consider.

 

[Mainstreet]

@Russ Smith

I'm not sure if you read it but here is what the Crew Chief had to say. I just ran across it.

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[LoyaltyisaCurse]

the hometown guys after the game IMO were over the top with that even Adonal Foyle was saying 5 on 8. I thought we had some weird calls or no calls and I didn't like the ejection but I don't think it was THAT bad.

Kerr for his part after the game they asked him he said we fouled too much early, there was some stuff I didn't like and you saw me arguing for those, but the fouls early we just fouled too much.

Curry even who was clearly amused by some of the calls he was asked about Klay saying I played angry in the 2nd half and he said why did he say, I wonder if it's because we missed some shots we should have made. In other words he didn't think Klay should have been mad at the refs.

I think in a weird way the ejection helped the Warriors win it both motivated them in the 2nd half and I think it changed some of the rotations so that Kerr felt he had to play Poole with Steph and Klay and that was really the difference.

The refs were really bad yesterday...most of their crap decisions went against the Warriors...In game and in the moment it always feels intentional. In review, they just sucked and happened to disfavor the Warriors on the whole.

 

[Russ Smith]

@Russ Smith

I'm not sure if you read it but here is what the Crew Chief had to say. I just ran across it.

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And I accept that. I don't think they explained that well during the game. 2 flagrant 1's throw him out I'm ok with.

 

[Finito]

The refs were really bad yesterday...most of their crap decisions went against the Warriors...In game and in the moment it always feels intentional. In review, they just sucked and happened to disfavor the Warriors on the whole.

I honestly don’t remember a game where someone didn’t feel slighted

 

[Mainstreet]

And I accept that. I don't think they explained that well during the game. 2 flagrant 1's throw him out I'm ok with.

The Warriors won yesterday so this is only for context. Jokic was ejected for this play against Cam Payne in last year's playoffs.

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[Covert Rain]

That seems to be discussing when they call a common foul and then upgrade it. I don't think that's what happened. I don't really care we won without him all I'm saying is if they added the 2 together to get a flagrant 2, tell us that. They would have gotten far less complaining had they said that.

They kind of hinted at it but didn't outright say we had 2 flagrant 1's so that's an ejection

My issue is that the slap itself could be upgraded to a flagrant 2 if it was obvious, he wasn't going for the ball. They said during the telecast he "wound up". I really didn't see that. IMO it could be argued he was going for the ball and missed. I have seen way more obvious slaps like that. So, to me, the ensuing flagrant foul (pulling him down) had to be part of the decisions to eject him or you don't eject him IMO. It was CLEAR that he tried to yank him down before holding him up. Those two things together make it a no brainer.

Only considering the slap? I would agree not enough there for an ejection.

 

[Russ Smith]

The refs were really bad yesterday...most of their crap decisions went against the Warriors...In game and in the moment it always feels intentional. In review, they just sucked and happened to disfavor the Warriors on the whole.

There were some bad ones again the ball out off of Memphis that they didn't make a call on and then said jumpball that was really bad but the refs told Kerr because nobody made a call, they couldn't review it. If that's true, they need to change that rule. The refs didn't know so they didn't want to make the wrong call, but by not calling anything, they got the play wrong since it was clearly out off brooks.

I'll take the win we stole one at home and considering how well Jackson and Morant shot from 3 that's pretty big to do that with Draymond missing half the game. I expect Bane to play better the next game so the Warriors will have to up theirs. Need better shot selection from Klay and more aggressive play from Wiggins.

 

[Covert Rain]

@Russ Smith

I'm not sure if you read it but here is what the Crew Chief had to say. I just ran across it.

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There it is. So, I am going to repeat. Totally warranted and necessary when taking into account both incidents.

 

[nashman]

I think it’s funny everyone talking about Bucks or Celtics totally disregarding Miami Heat as though they have no chance….being the 1 seed in the east must not mean anything. The Heat will be a tough out imo for anyone…

 

[Chaplin]

The Warriors won yesterday so this is only for context. Jokic was ejected for this play against Cam Payne in last year's playoffs.

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He got a lot of flak for it in real time, but I loved Book's response in a hostile environment.

 

[Cheesebeef]

First thought watching the GS game is that game threads are going to be unreadable between all the complaining about the refs both teams’ fans are going to do.

Second thought… the Warriors ALWAYS get a great shot. Their offense is pretty in motion and we’re gonna have to play our A game on D to beat them.

 

[95pro]

First thought watching the GS game is that game threads are going to be unreadable between all the crying about the refs both teams’ fans are going to do.

Second thought… the Warriors ALWAYS get a great shot. Their offense is pretty in motion and we’re gonna have to play our A game on D to beat them.

This thread got like that during the Grizz/Warriors game, and this is a suns board. Yeah i'm not looking forward to the non-suns fans posting in the suns/warriors if it comes to that.

 

[somethingshesaid]

I think it’s funny everyone talking about Bucks or Celtics totally disregarding Miami Heat as though they have no chance….being the 1 seed in the east must not mean anything. The Heat will be a tough out imo for anyone…

Accepted, but everyone else probably--like me--briefly thought of the Miami Cold in the conference finals, and accepted that either the Celtics or Bucks would beat them. If the Cold prove me wrong, good, because that would mean the Bucks are eliminated.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This thread got like that during the Grizz/Warriors game, and this is a suns board. Yeah i'm not looking forward to the non-suns fans posting in the suns/warriors if it comes to that.

Hopefully the GS fans will just keep posting in the NBA playoffs thread (this thread) and not bombard the other ones.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This thread got like that during the Grizz/Warriors game, and this is a suns board. Yeah i'm not looking forward to the non-suns fans posting in the suns/warriors if it comes to that.

It won’t just be Warriors fans. We have our own blame the zebras for everything crew on our end also. Putting them together is gonna make for fugly threads.