Suns updates and discussion for the 2023-24 season

Lorenzo

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we're going to lose in the play-in

but remember dallas just last year tanked to avoid the play-in altogether and they're rolling now but make no mistake it's over this year - vogel will be fired and we will find a different architect

to those who don't think this is on vogel - im not doing any lengthy responses trying to debate this - and even if it were so we're pretty pot committed to the mid card trips we've gamble'd on

mid card trips are a good hand but even better with a pair like nurk and allen - i swear this starting line up can work - not this year tho - zero chance
I think the suns can win multiple playoff series this year. last year dallas were struggling a fair amount over multiple weeks at the end the season. their alleged tanking took place in the final couple of games when they realized their season was all but over. the suns have been playing well down the stretch. I think when there are a couple of bad games it is too easy to panic.
 

BirdGangThing

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I think the suns can win multiple playoff series this year. last year dallas were struggling a fair amount over multiple weeks at the end the season. their alleged tanking took place in the final couple of games when they realized their season was all but over. the suns have been playing well down the stretch. I think when there are a couple of bad games it is too easy to panic.
What are you charging for grams?
 

Raindog

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The Mavericks stole Gafford and Washington Jr.

Too bad the Suns couldn't have been more patient.
Unfortunately, such moves were never in the cards with Jones as GM. He waits around every trade deadline to sift through whatever leftovers are in the remainder bin. I guess he thinks he's being "clever" that way.

Also, he is idiotically obsessed with building a roster entirely of undersized, mediocre wings because he stupidly believes that post play has entirely disappeared from the league.
 

Dback Jon

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Unfortunately, such moves were never in the cards with Jones as GM. He waits around every trade deadline to sift through whatever leftovers are in the remainder bin. I guess he thinks he's being "clever" that way.

Also, he is idiotically obsessed with building a roster entirely of undersized, mediocre wings because he stupidly believes that post play has entirely disappeared from the league.
Sounds like Jones and Keim hang out together.

Both think they are smarter/more clever than they are, both love leftovers, both don't understand the game.
 

Hoop Head

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I'm curious if the coaching debacle in Milwaukee played any role in Vogel making it through the whole season. The Bucks fired Adrian Griffin early, just before Christmas, and the sentiment amongst Suns fans shifted drastically at the same time to "Fire Vogel". That loss against the Mavs on Christmas was the straw that broke the camels back. The Bucks however were a 1-2 seed in the East and looked good, albeit not as good as anyone hoped given what they paid to acquire Dame. Then Doc struggled there mightily and they'll likely see an early postseason exit also. Was it the right move to can Griffin? Not based on their play on the court before or after doing so. I think the Suns hoped the ship would get back on course here and used that as an example of why you don't make a big move midseason, especially without a better replacement in place. I fully expect Vogel to be fired after we lose in round 1, giving us plenty of time to find a replacement. Hopefully James Jones is also shown the door when Vogel gets the boot. This is his 3rd coach, time to cut him off.
 

Dr dumas

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I think the suns can win multiple playoff series this year. last year dallas were struggling a fair amount over multiple weeks at the end the season. their alleged tanking took place in the final couple of games when they realized their season was all but over. the suns have been playing well down the stretch. I think when there are a couple of bad games it is too easy to panic.
I disagree. This team has quite playing or showing any effort. Vogel has lost this team and it shows.
 

Proximo

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I'm curious if the coaching debacle in Milwaukee played any role in Vogel making it through the whole season. The Bucks fired Adrian Griffin early, just before Christmas, and the sentiment amongst Suns fans shifted drastically at the same time to "Fire Vogel". That loss against the Mavs on Christmas was the straw that broke the camels back. The Bucks however were a 1-2 seed in the East and looked good, albeit not as good as anyone hoped given what they paid to acquire Dame. Then Doc struggled there mightily and they'll likely see an early postseason exit also. Was it the right move to can Griffin? Not based on their play on the court before or after doing so. I think the Suns hoped the ship would get back on course here and used that as an example of why you don't make a big move midseason, especially without a better replacement in place. I fully expect Vogel to be fired after we lose in round 1, giving us plenty of time to find a replacement. Hopefully James Jones is also shown the door when Vogel gets the boot. This is his 3rd coach, time to cut him off.
Coaching changes made mid season are only done in times of crisis. It's just not a good idea to try to switch things up in the middle of the season.

I really don't understand what people think James Jones has done wrong. He got us all the minimum salary players we wanted pre season. He did not not make the Durant or the Beal deal.
I think firing him would be straight up wrong - he is not to blame for this season. If you want to blame management it's all Ishbia's fault.
 

Suns_fan69

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Coaching changes made mid season are only done in times of crisis. It's just not a good idea to try to switch things up in the middle of the season.

I really don't understand what people think James Jones has done wrong. He got us all the minimum salary players we wanted pre season. He did not not make the Durant or the Beal deal.
I think firing him would be straight up wrong - he is not to blame for this season. If you want to blame management it's all Ishbia's fault.
I'd give JJ a positive grade on the Royce O'neale trade too. He's a great fit for the team.
 

Chaplin

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Coaching changes made mid season are only done in times of crisis. It's just not a good idea to try to switch things up in the middle of the season.

I really don't understand what people think James Jones has done wrong. He got us all the minimum salary players we wanted pre season. He did not not make the Durant or the Beal deal.
I think firing him would be straight up wrong - he is not to blame for this season. If you want to blame management it's all Ishbia's fault.
Well, James Jones did hire Frank Vogel... so there's that.
 

95pro

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Coaching changes made mid season are only done in times of crisis. It's just not a good idea to try to switch things up in the middle of the season.

I really don't understand what people think James Jones has done wrong. He got us all the minimum salary players we wanted pre season. He did not not make the Durant or the Beal deal.
I think firing him would be straight up wrong - he is not to blame for this season. If you want to blame management it's all Ishbia's fault.

He got the best available guys with min salaries. Can't blame him for acquiring those guys, they had nothing but upside at that cost.

And as for being on his 3rd coach, Monty was gone after those two playoff exits. Any coach would be gone if they lost like that two years in a row.
Can't blame JJ for that, that coach and almost the complete roster is gone.

Ishbia triggered this hole we are in by trying too much to put his stamp on this team. Coaching this past summer was slim pickings.
 

Raindog

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Coaching changes made mid season are only done in times of crisis. It's just not a good idea to try to switch things up in the middle of the season.

I really don't understand what people think James Jones has done wrong. He got us all the minimum salary players we wanted pre season. He did not not make the Durant or the Beal deal.
I think firing him would be straight up wrong - he is not to blame for this season. If you want to blame management it's all Ishbia's fault.
You mean he got us all the minimum salary players that he had to dump at mid-season to start over again rebuilding the bench? And all while consistently ignoring the team's two biggest weaknesses - the lack of a PG and interior defense/offense/depth.

And who says he didn't make the Beal deal? Or what his input to the Durant deal was exactly... if one is questioning the quality of either of those acquisitions.

And that's not even getting into how little he did to try and improve the team in prior seasons that may have been on the cusp of winning it all. Or boofing the drafts that might have helped because he doesn't "believe" in drafting developable young talent.

Beyond that, what exactly has he done to improve the franchise to begin with? Most of the talent that formed the core of the 2020 and late teams was here before he was in charge. Except for Chris Paul, of course, who forced his way here because Monty was coaching. So maybe you can give Jones credit for hiring Monty... but the rest fell in his lap. Even the trade to bring Oubre here only happened because he screwed up the original intended trade for... well, some Brooks who no one was ever really certain which.

But then he ended up holding onto Chris Paul too long, Ayton too long, screwed up the handling of the Crowder situation. Gave a big contract to a useless Landry Shamet. As Chaplin mentioned, hired Vogel.

And even beyond all that, why should Jones get a pass on the team's underachieving the last four years any more than anyone else? The guy making the personnel decisions for multiple years is just as responsible as the coaching if the results aren't there.
 

Suns_fan69

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Under the radar a bit, but Book has now played 66 games, and is eligible for post-season awards/All-NBA team. Not sure if he'll get the votes, especially with the team's lackluster play, but he has a shot at 3rd team realistically. Note, All-NBA teams are position-less this year.
 

Chaplin

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Under the radar a bit, but Book has now played 66 games, and is eligible for post-season awards/All-NBA team. Not sure if he'll get the votes, especially with the team's lackluster play, but he has a shot at 3rd team realistically. Note, All-NBA teams are position-less this year.
Considering the number of stars that AREN'T eligible, I think he has a great chance at 3rd team for sure.
 

Suns_fan69

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Considering the number of stars that AREN'T eligible, I think he has a great chance at 3rd team for sure.
In rough order from what i've seen/read:
Jokic, Giannis, Luka, SGA, Tatum
Brunson, AD, Lebron, Kawhi, Steph
KD, Jaylen Brown, Ant, Sabonis, Fox, Haliburton, Maxey, Zion, Gobert, PG13

So, it's not a given; the competition for 3rd team is going to be fierce

 

Cheesebeef

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Considering the number of stars that AREN'T eligible, I think he has a great chance at 3rd team for sure.
I don’t think he gets there. One Sun at most gets in and I’m betting it’s Durant over Book.
 

AzStevenCal

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You mean he got us all the minimum salary players that he had to dump at mid-season to start over again rebuilding the bench? And all while consistently ignoring the team's two biggest weaknesses - the lack of a PG and interior defense/offense/depth.

And who says he didn't make the Beal deal? Or what his input to the Durant deal was exactly... if one is questioning the quality of either of those acquisitions.

And that's not even getting into how little he did to try and improve the team in prior seasons that may have been on the cusp of winning it all. Or boofing the drafts that might have helped because he doesn't "believe" in drafting developable young talent.

Beyond that, what exactly has he done to improve the franchise to begin with? Most of the talent that formed the core of the 2020 and late teams was here before he was in charge. Except for Chris Paul, of course, who forced his way here because Monty was coaching. So maybe you can give Jones credit for hiring Monty... but the rest fell in his lap. Even the trade to bring Oubre here only happened because he screwed up the original intended trade for... well, some Brooks who no one was ever really certain which.

But then he ended up holding onto Chris Paul too long, Ayton too long, screwed up the handling of the Crowder situation. Gave a big contract to a useless Landry Shamet. As Chaplin mentioned, hired Vogel.

And even beyond all that, why should Jones get a pass on the team's underachieving the last four years any more than anyone else? The guy making the personnel decisions for multiple years is just as responsible as the coaching if the results aren't there.
I think you put far too much blame on JJ but I'd fire him too. Not for what you list but simply because this mess has occurred on his watch. How much blame he deserves for this mess matters little to me, he's proven that he either can't make the right calls or he's not forceful enough to keep others from making bad decisions for this organization. He's either the true GM decision maker for the Suns or he isn't, either way, farewell.
 

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