Suns @ Clippers 11-2-15

sunsfan88

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This is an encouraging loss. I've never been this upbeat after a loss.

Our defense is good except for pick and roll and transition. Our rebounding is sick.

To have almost beat LAC on the road despite Kieff playing like absolute crap in the first half and Bledsoe and Knight being horribly off is pretty good.

Tyson Chandler is the ******** man. I felt bad we wasted his efforts but hope he continues this.

One thing we need for sure is this...a good 3pt shooting SF. Both our SFs, Warren and Tucker blow from beyond the arc. Tucker doesn't even have the confidence to shoot it anymore, he passed up many times.

It sucks for Bledsoe and Knight because the opposing defenses just stay in the key on them.

We also need a backup SG that can shoot the 3 ball well. Weems isn't the answer, Goodwin can't shoot and Booker will never play under Hornacek even when healthy because of Hornacek's "never play rookies meaningful minutes" rule. Plus sure maybe Booker's not ready.

If we can trade Tucker and get a good shooting SF even if he isn't a great defender (open your eyes, neither is Tucker anymore) and get a good shooting backup SG like Morrow or something, we're set.

How sad is it that the ideal SF who fits what I'm talking about is Marcus Morris :(

We just need spacing. Oh and Kieff can **** if he ever attempts that many 3s in his life again. I don't care if he made some in the second half, it's the law of statistics that if you keep shooting so much some will bound to fall. Drive to rim every play or take open midrange shots, that should be his game entirely. Maybe 2-3 three point attempts a game just to keep the defense honest but that's it. Don't turn into Channing Frye.

It's a shame that Hornacek doesn't hold him accountable and allowed him to ruin the first half for the Suns by continuing to play him despite Leuer not being in foul trouble or anything. Kieff now knows no matter how piss poorly he plays, he won't get benched and he will get opportunities to continue to suck.
 
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Phrazbit

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If we can trade Tucker and get a good shooting SF even if he isn't a great defender (open your eyes, neither is Tucker anymore) and get a good shooting backup SG like Morrow or something, we're set.

How sad is it that the ideal SF who fits what I'm talking about is Marcus Morris :(


I think its more sad that you think Marcus Morris is a good shooter. Career 36% 3pt shooters are not big time spacing threats, especially ones like Morris who have a slow release and allow defenses to easily recover. And Marcus is more than just not "great" on defense, he is manure.
 

Absolute Zero

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Yep, I will take a 6 point loss at the Clippers in our first meeting this season. I expect our team will play a lot better later in the season if we can stay healthy.

Nice to have Chandler on the team! 17 boards, 14 points. And we outrebounded the Clippers. Nice.
 

JCSunsfan

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All losses are bad, but some are better than others.
 

Chaplin

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There's really only 2 things that need major improvement, IMO, and it has nothing to do with the 2 PG offense.

Basically, shot selection and team defense. When Austin Rivers gets to the basket unmolested, something is wrong. I also counted several times when a defender would simply run away from the guy holding the ball (mainly on Josh Smith, but I remember it happening with BLAKE GRIFFIN). It was strange to watch. And shot selection... well, Kieff and Knight's shooting percentages tell that story.
 

Bert

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Seems like the Suns gave the Clippers a really good game, on the road no less. I actually think that is really encouraging.
 

devilalum

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I they continue to focus on defense it will get better and better as long as Chandler stays healthy.
 

Catlover

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There's really only 2 things that need major improvement, IMO, and it has nothing to do with the 2 PG offense.

Basically, shot selection and team defense. When Austin Rivers gets to the basket unmolested, something is wrong. I also counted several times when a defender would simply run away from the guy holding the ball (mainly on Josh Smith, but I remember it happening with BLAKE GRIFFIN). It was strange to watch. And shot selection... well, Kieff and Knight's shooting percentages tell that story.

We're subbing in a lot of unfamiliar faces so sure, like most teams, we want to improve on defense. We gave up 102 points last night but OTOH it was LAC's lowest scoring game so far.
 

Catlover

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It appears obvious to me that Markieff is on his way out. I don't know much about the cap and such but is there a date other than the midseason deadline that we might be waiting for? For example, how long before rookies and free agents that were signed this offeason become available for trade?

I watch this team and can't help but feel that solving our forward problems would put us among the elite. Granted, a lot of teams would be pretty good if they could solve their two weakest positions. But I think we have the solution to our small forward problem already on our team even if he's not fully ready yet.
 

elindholm

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It appears obvious to me that Markieff is on his way out. I don't know much about the cap and such but is there a date other than the midseason deadline that we might be waiting for? For example, how long before rookies and free agents that were signed this offeason become available for trade?

I believe the date is December 15. The significance is that that's when other team's recent signees become available as well. So even if the Suns plan to move only Morris, they may have to wait.

I watch this team and can't help but feel that solving our forward problems would put us among the elite.

To me SG is a much bigger problem than SF. You can get by with Tucker and Warren as your SF rotation. The lack of a real perimeter threat is killing the offense, never mind the size that the Suns are giving up at the wings.
 

Catlover

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I believe the date is December 15. The significance is that that's when other team's recent signees become available as well. So even if the Suns plan to move only Morris, they may have to wait.

Thanks. I hope that's the date we're waiting on, we could be quite a ways out of playoff contention if we're waiting until the middle of February.

To me SG is a much bigger problem than SF. You can get by with Tucker and Warren as your SF rotation. The lack of a real perimeter threat is killing the offense, never mind the size that the Suns are giving up at the wings.

Knight is a real perimeter threat, he can drive and he can shoot from distance. Nobody likes his shot selection but we can live with one or two decisions a game as long as the rest of his game is there. Whether you like this type of offense or not it's keyed by pulling some of the bigger players away from the lane.
 

ASUCHRIS

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To me SG is a much bigger problem than SF. You can get by with Tucker and Warren as your SF rotation. The lack of a real perimeter threat is killing the offense, never mind the size that the Suns are giving up at the wings.

Yep, which leads me to believe Booker may enter the rotation sooner that we expect/he's ready.

Without a reliable 3 point threat, D's will continue to pack the lane and it will be harder for Knight/Bledsoe to penetrate.

I'm getting a little worried about Knight - he just hasn't done anything in a Suns uniform that inspires much confidence.
 

Catlover

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Yep, which leads me to believe Booker may enter the rotation sooner that we expect/he's ready.

Without a reliable 3 point threat, D's will continue to pack the lane and it will be harder for Knight/Bledsoe to penetrate.

I'm getting a little worried about Knight - he just hasn't done anything in a Suns uniform that inspires much confidence.

I think he's still not sure of his ankle but other than 3 point shooting, his numbers aren't too bad. He's averaging 18 points per game along with 5 assists and 5.5 rebounds.
 

JCSunsfan

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I think he's still not sure of his ankle but other than 3 point shooting, his numbers aren't too bad. He's averaging 18 points per game along with 5 assists and 5.5 rebounds.

Shooting 40% from the field and 31% from the three. That's the issue. Its just a few games though. So its hardly a good sample.
 

elindholm

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Shooting 40% from the field and 31% from the three. That's the issue. Its just a few games though. So its hardly a good sample.

Yeah, the problem is, he's only 41% from the field for his whole career, which now comprises 280 games. And he shot only 31% from three during the 11 games he played for the Suns last season too. It looks like (a) he's not that good a shooter in general, and (b) for whatever reason, he's not getting the right kind of looks with the Suns, or at least not yet.
 
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I think Brandon Knight would be better served to play PG measuring 6'3." His height is a disadvantage to play any other position. Of course the same is true with Bledsoe. IMO, the Suns use of Knight as a hybrid guard diminishes his talent. I wish the Suns would get over playing two small starting guards no matter what they call it. I guess the Suns are locked into this mindset for now without rocking the boat with more trades.

Booker appears to be the most capable shooting SG on the roster given time to develop.
 

clif

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I am not feeling this team. I see just a bunch of guys. No stars, no defined roles, no swagger, no flow, no chemistry.... just blah. I know it is early and im sure they will get better with time, but they are just middling around. I just don't see what PJ tucker brings to the table and I swear it seemed like Morris was point shaving in the first half he was so bad. Hard hitting analysis I know but there is a ton missing from this team.
 

JustWinBaby

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I am not feeling this team. I see just a bunch of guys. No stars, no defined roles, no swagger, no flow, no chemistry.... just blah. I know it is early and im sure they will get better with time, but they are just middling around. I just don't see what PJ tucker brings to the table and I swear it seemed like Morris was point shaving in the first half he was so bad. Hard hitting analysis I know but there is a ton missing from this team.

I feel the same.

I know Booker was hurt last game but has not been seeing consistent minutes when healthy. That is freaking criminal. This team need shooting and he is our best shooter. I really don't get it.

Why is he not our first guard off the bench? IMO he should sub in for Bledsoe when he goes to the bench for a rest and stay in when Knight goes to the bench with Bledsoe at the point. I do not have anything against Ronnie Price but he is not our future. Weems has been a non factor.

I also would not mind seeing Booker in the starting lineup to replace Tucker on some nights. Tucker is not our future either.

Not as convinced as some on Warren but I would rather let him play his way out of the lineup, rather than watching Tucker in the starting lineup.

Where is Archie?
 

Errntknght

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The shooting stats for the team pretty much tell the story - we are significantly below the league averages across the board - FG% 40.3 vs 43.2; 3pt% 28.2 vs 33.1; even FT% 71.4 vs 76.3. We figure to improve but so will the rest of the league - the typical league stas run 45%, 35%, and 75% for a full season.

To get a general idea of how success looks compared to failure in the league I compared the top 8 teams against the bottom 7 in each half, on all stats. The stats that showed a significant difference were FG%, 3pt% and assists:
West top 8 vs bottom 7: FG +1.6%; 3pt +2.1% and assists +2.5
East top 8 vs bottom 7: FG +1.8%; 3pt +1.5% and assists +2.5
(Of course defense matters because you only have to score higher percentages than your opponent to do well, but this does indicate that the kind of differences we see with our team are very significant.)
 

sunsfan88

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I think once Booker's back, he should easily replace Weems in the rotation. Weems just doesn't seem to bring much while I'd like to see what our rook has to offer.
 

Chaz

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The hardest part for rookies is defending.
Booker will get some chances to play but he really will have to make the most of them. Unless he is just blowing people away in practice he will not get regular significant minutes in the first half of the season.

I was relativity happy with the performance against the Clippers. They didn't lose contact with them and even took the lead at one point. Ultimately they made to many mistakes and shot too poorly overall but they showed good effort and toughness against a very deep and talented team.
 

JCSunsfan

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The hardest part for rookies is defending.
Booker will get some chances to play but he really will have to make the most of them. Unless he is just blowing people away in practice he will not get regular significant minutes in the first half of the season.

I was relativity happy with the performance against the Clippers. They didn't lose contact with them and even took the lead at one point. Ultimately they made to many mistakes and shot too poorly overall but they showed good effort and toughness against a very deep and talented team.

Improved defense and rebounding is going to keep this team in games that would previously be out of reach. But they have to improve their offensive efficiency to improve the actual W-L stats.
 

Chaz

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Improved defense and rebounding is going to keep this team in games that would previously be out of reach. But they have to improve their offensive efficiency to improve the actual W-L stats.

I thought the offense looked much better with pretty good player and ball movement. The shooting has been relatively poor with missing a lot of open looks but that can come and go a bit.
I hope the shooting will improve as this core rotation plays together more. It will be interesting to see what the trend is over the next 6-8 games.

One thing from the Clippers game I wanted Knight to be more aggressive going to the basket. It was clear that Austin Rivers could not stay in front of him. It should have driven on him every time he had a chance.
 

devilalum

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I thought the offense looked much better with pretty good player and ball movement. The shooting has been relatively poor with missing a lot of open looks but that can come and go a bit.
I hope the shooting will improve as this core rotation plays together more. It will be interesting to see what the trend is over the next 6-8 games.

One thing from the Clippers game I wanted Knight to be more aggressive going to the basket. It was clear that Austin Rivers could not stay in front of him. It should have driven on him every time he had a chance.

Sure, this is the advantage with the 2 PG system but there is nowhere to go when the bigs can't hit their perimeter shots.
 

JCSunsfan

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A Kevin Love/Cliff Robinson type of player would make all the difference for this team.
 

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