Suns_fan69
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Agreed. I can't feel too worked up over any loss where the suns shot only 38%. Sometimes you just can't throw the ball in the ocean.
Sterns at Suns 8:30 TNT
- Thread starter FArting
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Agreed. I can't feel too worked up over any loss where the suns shot only 38%. Sometimes you just can't throw the ball in the ocean.
green machine
I rule at posting
Not at all. Sure, the Spurs don't give up tons of layups. But they gave up a lot of open 3's and jumpers.
But, I should have known this was going to happen. The Suns were damned if they did, damned if they didn't, and now we see what happens:
People freak.
az1965
Love Games!
I'm just pissed on this performance. I hate the Sterns and had this game circled and was waiting for at least a week... and this is what I got from the Suns.
jbeecham
ASFN Addict
Fixed thatChoke Hard : NBA Refs on Spurs *****
OldDirtMcGirt
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Just a terrible performance all-together. I think that all of us knew that we couldn't execute on defense and on the boards, but now we couldn't execute in half-court sets. I'm not sure what Steve Kerr sees in this team.
green machine
I rule at posting
It's amazing what one game has people say.
What was everyone saying after the Hawks game?
Jeez people, it's ONE GAME. All is not lost, in fact, maybe the Suns can learn something from this.
dodie53
A. O. II
we hope so.
Well I want to say I am terribly disappointed by the Suns, I also know it's just one game and there will be more against the Sterns. The refs were quite fair IMO, they actually called more to our favor (that last call on Duncan when he fouled Amare was not a foul).
Nash had some uncharacteristic turnovers there at the end, but the Sterns did a good job swarming him. Yet when he was covered, other Suns on the court needed to step up and stop giving it to Nash to bail them out (like they did on the last shot). They must have known Nash was going to take the shot, why give it to him?? Bell, LB, and Diaw were non-existent. Marion was great in the first half, then just disappeared in the 2nd like always. But I'd have to say Stat was the biggest contribution to lost by not hitting those FT's. He hits them like there a piece of cake until the last 5 mins of the game and then chokes.
Nash had some uncharacteristic turnovers there at the end, but the Sterns did a good job swarming him. Yet when he was covered, other Suns on the court needed to step up and stop giving it to Nash to bail them out (like they did on the last shot). They must have known Nash was going to take the shot, why give it to him?? Bell, LB, and Diaw were non-existent. Marion was great in the first half, then just disappeared in the 2nd like always. But I'd have to say Stat was the biggest contribution to lost by not hitting those FT's. He hits them like there a piece of cake until the last 5 mins of the game and then chokes.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
lol. they're .500 against us withOUT tony parker. they own us.
we're a soft team.
dantoni gets routinely outcoached by pops.
even our stars make errors at crucial moments.
barbs just flat out stinks. i don't buy he was injured last year. oh, wait a minute, he had spursitis. it flared up again tonight.
jbeecham
ASFN Addict
What can we learn from this? Shoot the ball better? Learn to flop better to get calls in crunch time?
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
hmm, seems to happen a lot against the spurs though . . . coincidence? i think not. it's called a team pressing b/c another team is in their heads. you can deny that all you want, but you're just deluding yourself. sometimes that happens and it takes something big to overcome it. i thought game 4 last year was that big thing, but it seems the suspensions got into the team's collective head and we're back at square one again.
green machine
I rule at posting
OK, the Suns beat this same Spurs team in San Antonio earlier in the year, but NOW they're in the Suns' heads? Does anyone remember game 2 in last year's playoffs, when the Suns kicked the living **** out of them?
Come on guys, I know it sucks, and I know this team may not win a title, but this game doesn't tell us anything more then the Suns need to shoot better then 37 percent to beat the Spurs.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
hmm, we do NOT have kurt thomas. they have ADDED mighty mouse. yes we added grant hill, but unlike the spurs who ADDED to their arsenal, we merely tried to REPLACE a piece of ours, with a player at a position of lesser need, no less.
don't get me wrong, i love the hill addition. but tonight yet again showed why no other big is an issue for us. amare's defense is so atrocious that it affects his offense. as in, if he picks up early fouls (which he routinely does now - i swear, i think his d is getting worse), then he has to sit. hence no offense. if we even just had a big defensive thug who would take amare off the better post players we'd at least still have his offensive weaponry. now i'm not absolving amare of responsibility for playing better d, but eventually you just have to say, "it is what it is, and if we're going to win, we have to account for the deficiency" instead of repeating the mantra, "amare's defense is adequate," or "amare's defense is getting better," or "amare's gotta get better on defense." just admit what he is and work around it. or continue to stumble blindly. i hate dantoni.
cly2tw
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I watched on a bad feed from raptorsnation.net and missed a lot of actions. But from what I saw, several issues contributed to the loss, not hitting the open jumpers is not really a concern.
1. Nash and LB rushed to quick shots or bonehead drives, say about 5 times each. That's 10 possessions.
2. Amare was frenquently covered by Manu or another small player, and I guess Diaw too. But we couldn't exploit it, an issue that's been there all the time but we never seemed to have worked on it consistently. (Or is Amare really too dumb to learn it?)
3. Most importantly, at crunch time, we only have the Nash-Amare p&r, which proved to be turnover-prone despite its near perfection. Nash had to try/force those risky passes in the paint, cos we didn't have, weren't given, viable alternatives. (Sure, when it succeeds we watch those emphatic finishes Amare provided us. But the odd is not always good enough, depending on game situations.)
Missed FT or open jumpers are normal risk of fluctuation in the game. But the above issues are something we could work on and improve.
One thing is for sure. The Spurs seem to be capable of forcing their style on us in the games. Often, some 1-on-1 offense is all what's left out there, particularly late in the game. Actually, middle of the 4th we got a couple good 1-on-1 scores with Hill. But after that, we lived and died with Nash-Amare. And Bowen like in most 4th q., defended Nash with an extreme positioning to the right, so that the pick would not result in an immediate good chance. It's a time when we needed some other ways to get an open shot, but there were no.
Also, double-teaming TD got us exactly where we were without KT manning him up in single coverage.
If we don't improve, we'd be again at a low odd to win in a series vs. them.
1. Nash and LB rushed to quick shots or bonehead drives, say about 5 times each. That's 10 possessions.
2. Amare was frenquently covered by Manu or another small player, and I guess Diaw too. But we couldn't exploit it, an issue that's been there all the time but we never seemed to have worked on it consistently. (Or is Amare really too dumb to learn it?)
3. Most importantly, at crunch time, we only have the Nash-Amare p&r, which proved to be turnover-prone despite its near perfection. Nash had to try/force those risky passes in the paint, cos we didn't have, weren't given, viable alternatives. (Sure, when it succeeds we watch those emphatic finishes Amare provided us. But the odd is not always good enough, depending on game situations.)
Missed FT or open jumpers are normal risk of fluctuation in the game. But the above issues are something we could work on and improve.
One thing is for sure. The Spurs seem to be capable of forcing their style on us in the games. Often, some 1-on-1 offense is all what's left out there, particularly late in the game. Actually, middle of the 4th we got a couple good 1-on-1 scores with Hill. But after that, we lived and died with Nash-Amare. And Bowen like in most 4th q., defended Nash with an extreme positioning to the right, so that the pick would not result in an immediate good chance. It's a time when we needed some other ways to get an open shot, but there were no.
Also, double-teaming TD got us exactly where we were without KT manning him up in single coverage.
If we don't improve, we'd be again at a low odd to win in a series vs. them.
dodie53
A. O. II
lesson:
stop shooting jumpshots when you can't make any..
go to the hole.
stop shooting jumpshots when you can't make any..
go to the hole.
OldDirtMcGirt
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The whole point is that it isn't ONE GAME. This problem has reared its ugly head numerous times this season, and we've got three years of futility to point towards its flaws. If this game wasn't representative of a larger problem, a problem with the coaching and a problem with the system, then it would be no big deal. But you can't just shake this off as, "it wasn't our night", when it hasn't been our night for the entire D'Antoni era.
I just got home from the game, here are my thoughts from the 5th row:
Even though the Suns lost, I'm fairly encouraged. If the Suns play that well on defense, with that much energy, they'll win 9 times out of 10. The difference in the game were the following: Inability to make open threes, missing free throws, not converting off turnovers. All three of these areas are things the Suns are normally near the best in the league at (2 of them are shooting related, the other is finishing fast breaks). The Suns nearly won, and most nights would've won that game.
I haven't read the thread yet, but if anyone bad mouthed Diaw, you don't know anything about basketball. Diaw did an AMAZING job on Duncan. He was way outsized and kept Duncan away from the bucket, and made him work for everything. I thought D'Antoni screwed up by having the LB-Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare line up out there late. He eventually corrected it after TD got an easy shot on Amare, but it was too late.
The Suns did a very good job of doubling Duncan and using the baseline as a third defender. Duncans very good obviously, and was able to pass out of it a lot of times, but I'll let the Vaughn's of the world try to beat us. Now in game w/ a healthy Brent Barry and Parker, that may not work quite as well, but if Parkers not on the floor and TD is, thats a great strategy. Furthermore, Duncan traveled nearly every time in that situation. He shuffles his feet so freakin' badly its ridiculous. He was doing it ten feet from my face and was screaming about it, but it wasn't called once.
Great effort all around, if they play like that in the playoffs, they'll win more games than they lose.
Even though the Suns lost, I'm fairly encouraged. If the Suns play that well on defense, with that much energy, they'll win 9 times out of 10. The difference in the game were the following: Inability to make open threes, missing free throws, not converting off turnovers. All three of these areas are things the Suns are normally near the best in the league at (2 of them are shooting related, the other is finishing fast breaks). The Suns nearly won, and most nights would've won that game.
I haven't read the thread yet, but if anyone bad mouthed Diaw, you don't know anything about basketball. Diaw did an AMAZING job on Duncan. He was way outsized and kept Duncan away from the bucket, and made him work for everything. I thought D'Antoni screwed up by having the LB-Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare line up out there late. He eventually corrected it after TD got an easy shot on Amare, but it was too late.
The Suns did a very good job of doubling Duncan and using the baseline as a third defender. Duncans very good obviously, and was able to pass out of it a lot of times, but I'll let the Vaughn's of the world try to beat us. Now in game w/ a healthy Brent Barry and Parker, that may not work quite as well, but if Parkers not on the floor and TD is, thats a great strategy. Furthermore, Duncan traveled nearly every time in that situation. He shuffles his feet so freakin' badly its ridiculous. He was doing it ten feet from my face and was screaming about it, but it wasn't called once.
Great effort all around, if they play like that in the playoffs, they'll win more games than they lose.
CardShark
DEAL WITH IT!
One important game. Don't you think this should have been a statement game, ESPECIALLY with Parker out. Instead it makes the statement LOUD and CLEAR that the Suns will be lucky to make it to the finals. They are a team that continues to run hot and cold. They are too inconsistent. I hope after the All-Star break they can find the passion to just go out and dominate teams. They need to stop playing down to teams, which I think is what happened in this game. The Suns started off well but then started to commit stupid turnovers like the Sterns. The Suns should've crushed them.
green machine
I rule at posting
I totally agree that the Suns need a C to help Amare out, and maybe this game will help prove that point to the front office.
But again, if the Spurs are better then the Suns it isn't by much. A playoff series between the two could go either way because both teams are good and both know they can win on the other's home court.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
you might think my posts are "freaking," but that would mean you just haven't paid attention. when this team folded tonight i was talking with cheese who was livid. i was pretty calm (which is unusual for me watching the suns lose). know why? b/c i expected the meltdown. we haven't gotten over on this spurs team yet. and until we do, i'll continue to assume we'll go soft and meltdown. one game in the playoffs last year does not a mental makeover make. right now, that game is an aberration. nothing more. so no, i'm not freaking out. just stating my observations. suns are still soft mentally in the face of the spurs. dantoni continues to get outcoached by pop. suns lose.
green machine
I rule at posting
No way it could have been a statement game with Parker out. In fact, no matter what happened the Suns were screwed.
Didn't the Suns make a statement earlier in the year when they beat the Parker-less Spurs in San Antonio?
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
know what i said after the hawks game? we blew out a team we SHOULD blow out. that hawks team is in a tailspin. if we didn't blow 'em out we should be ashamed. so as far as "everyone" . . . i wasn't saying much. good win. expected win. glad it dropped the hawks another loss towards that draft pick.
green machine
I rule at posting
That's fair ouchie and I'm not trying to single you out or anything. In fact, I respect your opinion (and cheese's) quite a bit.
Personally I just don't read as much into this game, and really think the Suns cleared that Spurs hurdle last season with that game 4 win.
I feel that these teams are so evenly matched and so confident against eachother that they'll have close games every time they play, and each one could go either way.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
you're not giving the spurs any credit for us shooting that poorly? wow. i guess the spurs d is all luck. they play all the teams when they can't shoot well.
