Some thoughts on the defense

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,331
Reaction score
37,828
Location
UK
3-4 was gone. They played 4-3 base the whole game, which makes sense. Should have seen it coming with the players they have and how they planned to use Simmons.

No sacks, which on paper doesn't look great but I thought we got a lot of pressure and hits on Mahomes. He just always had a hot open or was great at avoiding the rusher.

After all the talk of who would play edge opposite Golden it turns out, mainly Zach Allen. I thought he did well there, but it's not ideal that we are weakening the interior to give Allen snaps at DE when we drafted 3 edge guys.

With Allen playing out there some the move to 4-3 may mean Watt also gets Edge snaps when he is back.

This might sound odd considering we got our pants pulled down but I liked a lot of what I saw from the defensive scheme, there were just some really bad performances. Vance gave them a lot of different looks. We were dropping Edge guys back into coverage and but adding an extra rusher elsewhere. We were moving guys around and doing a lot of things of defense to confuse the Chiefs. The idea was the right one. Sadly the keystone to the plan was Simmons...

Simmons was GD awful. It might be the single worse performance by a starting playing I've ever seen. Certainly from a Cardinal in recent memory. Not only did he look mentally off, he looked slow and his technique in coverage and tackling was awful. If you told me some random guy wore a latex Simmons mask and took his place on the field I might believe you. It was ridiculously bad.

Which is a big problem. Because switching to 4-3 and playing the multiple look defensive scheme Vance used is built around Simmons athleticism and his ability to move around and perform different roles at a high level.

After all the outside cornerback talk I didn't think we did that bad there. Wilson wasn't good and gave up a couple of TD's but wasn't really gashed for yardage. No worse than you would expect most teams to be against Mahomes. We didn't give up any big plays outside or much yardage to the receivers that played outside. They absolutely mauled us on the inside though. Mostly Simmons again but everyone really. JuJu and Kelce led them in yardage by far.

Hopefully we get Mullen back next week. He's been practicing against the Raiders offense all offseason. And we can move Murphy back inside.

But Vance may have to drop the Simmons plan. May just have to drop Simmons. Because that was bad.
 
OP
OP
BritCard

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,331
Reaction score
37,828
Location
UK
I appreciate the effort of the long post, but no, this doesn't at all sound odd from you :)

I'm talking about scheme wise. I said they played gash. The scheme was sound, just players sucked.
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,748
Reaction score
9,511
Location
milan-italy
I appreciate the effort of the long post, but no, this doesn't at all sound odd from you :)
I don't know how can u like a lot a defensive scheme that allowed the opponent marching down the field so easily in every drives
I still see a scheme that give too much cushion, i saw poor tackling skills, many players confused
The performance has been disarming in every way possible
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
BritCard

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,331
Reaction score
37,828
Location
UK
I don't know how can u like a lot a defensive scheme that allowed the opponent easily marching down the field in every drives

Because there is a difference between scheme and performance.

The same kind of difference as between an architect designing a grand home and the builder making a redneck cabin.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Posts
4,433
Reaction score
5,872
Location
Louisville
Burned across the middle from what I saw & by the TE the most once again. I don't care what the numbers say about the VJ defense improving the coverage of TE's the last 2 seasons, his scheme sucks covering the TE. Idk what the problem is but it's still a problem. Every player that went out on a route burned this defense honestly. Crossing routes or any route across the middle always gives the VJ defense fits. If there was a bright spot with the starting CB's yesterday it's this, Marco Wilson actually attempted to play tight coverage, even if it meant holding lol.
 
OP
OP
BritCard

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,331
Reaction score
37,828
Location
UK
Burned across the middle from what I saw & by the TE the most once again. I don't care what the numbers say about the VJ defense improving the coverage of TE's the last 2 seasons, his scheme sucks covering the TE. Idk what the problem is but it's still a problem. Every player that went out on a route burned this defense honestly. Crossing routes or any route across the middle always gives the VJ defense fits. If there was a bright spot with the starting CB's yesterday it's this, Marco Wilson actually attempted to play tight coverage, even if it meant holding lol.

I think we were 2nd least yards to tight ends last year? That's not nothing. But it was a problem yesterday. Largely because Simmons suuuuuucked.
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,748
Reaction score
9,511
Location
milan-italy
Because there is a difference between scheme and performance.

The same kind of difference as between an architect designing a grand home and the builder making a redneck cabin.
I think his schemes are hindering the growth of young players, maybe they are not so good after all but surely with him they look much worse
Many defensive players who left recently the Cardinals are having much better performances
If u put schemes above players strenghts i think the architect is a fool
 

Dayman

ASFN Addict
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Posts
5,958
Reaction score
7,257
Location
Portland, Oregon
Ezekiel Turner was assigned one on one coverages against RBs moving across the formation. Devin Kennard was dropping back into coverage. Collins looked completely baffled when asked to play a zone. Simmons lined up against JuJu in the slot. Jace Whitaker played man-to-man coverage in crossing routes against much faster receivers.

There were a bunch of performance/personnel issues, as well, but the scheme still didn't look like it had guys playing to their strengths, to put it kindly.
 

DaHilg

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 12, 2021
Posts
1,306
Reaction score
1,820
Location
Boston
I think his schemes are hindering the growth of young players, maybe they are not so good after all but surely with him they look much worse
Many defensive players who left recently the Cardinals are having much better performances
If u put schemes above players strenghts i think the architect is a fool
This 100%
 
OP
OP
BritCard

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,331
Reaction score
37,828
Location
UK
I think his schemes are hindering the growth of young players, maybe they are not so good after all but surely with him they look much worse
Many defensive players who left recently the Cardinals are having much better performances
If u put schemes above players strenghts i think the architect is a fool

It's not like he's doing anything other teams don't do. Who has gone elsewhere from defense and had "much better performances"? Reddick had a good season when he was here. Better if anything than since.

Maybe Simmons just isn't good at football?
 

Osbern61

Insomniac
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Posts
3,539
Reaction score
459
Location
Philadelphia
I thought KC vs our defense looked like Alabama vs Alabama State. I'm amazed they even got to 4th down(what 3 times?) when Mahomes was out there.
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,242
Reaction score
6,878
Other than Baker and Thompson, are there any players on the Cards D that would be sure starts for another team. I don't think so.
 

Garthshort

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
9,203
Reaction score
5,233
Location
Scarsdale, NY
Brit, when you say that Simmons looked slow (And I'm sure you're right) that tells me he's thinking when he should be reacting. Hopefully, he can improve with experience.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,627
Reaction score
6,123
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Ezekiel Turner was assigned one on one coverages against RBs moving across the formation. Devin Kennard was dropping back into coverage. Collins looked completely baffled when asked to play a zone. Simmons lined up against JuJu in the slot. Jace Whitaker played man-to-man coverage in crossing routes against much faster receivers.

There were a bunch of performance/personnel issues, as well, but the scheme still didn't look like it had guys playing to their strengths, to put it kindly.
Most of those names you mentioned don’t really have NFL strengths which the problem.
 

PACardsFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
10,028
Reaction score
11,539
Location
York, PA
I don't know how can u like a lot a defensive scheme that allowed the opponent marching down the field so easily in every drives
I still see a scheme that give too much cushion, i saw poor tackling skills, many players confused
The performance has been disarming in every way possible
MANY players confused is what I saw. And that harkens back to the entire scheme that Vance runs. It’s too damn complicated & the better QB’s in this league will eat up a defense that even hesitates for a second to think. Vance was handed 2 1st round defensive players that were considered to be either very good or elite & still could not develop them. His system needs to go & he needs to go. We cannot truly judge KK’s offense until the defense stops allowing teams to score on 95% of their drives. And it’s exactly what happened last year down the stretch. Vance is garbage.
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
540,760
Posts
5,295,361
Members
6,288
Latest member
Crazy_Player
Top