Simply Cutting to The Chase...

82CardsGrad

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This team is better than a .500 team. We have more than enough talent on both sides of the ball to be a playoff team, even with Chandler Jones and Corey Peters gone. And even with a kicker who is fantastic at kicking extra points, but can't make FG's...

However, the two most critically important positions are now our two most glaring areas of massive concern: Quarterback and Head Coach.

With regard to Murray, I am deeply concerned by what I see and what I don't see. However, rather than reiterate all of my prior gripes about Kyler, I'll simply say that I am willing to hold out hope for him...To be totally honest, I believe that if this offense is not turned around, even partially, so that the continual negative feedback loop is stopped, the resurrection of Murray may take a lot longer than it should...and it could be irreparable. Kyler's confidence is clearly shaken. So, along with the several other issues/problems he needs to fix, his foundation of confidence is now severely cracked.
I made the comment in the game day thread that at this point, a very strong argument can be made to sit Kyler down and let him simply watch. That isn't likely as the team still believes it's in a playoff hunt (it's not), however, I personally believe more would be gained than lost if Kyler sat out a game or two...

As for the Head Coach, just as Baker Mayfield benefited by a coaching change, I am convinced Kyler and the entire team would be FAR better off if LuLu Kliffy was sent packing.
I was not in favor of his hire from the day it was announced and he's only validated my position... I see nothing from him that suggests he's a NFL-caliber Head Coach. Nothing.
It's embarrassing frankly. I know many of you want to remain loyal to Keim and to Kliffy, however, I can't. Keim went for a Hail Mary by hiring a guy who's only shred of credibility was that he knew Kyler since his high school days. That's it. Surprisingly (or maybe not), Keim somehow forgot everything he knew about the NFL and believed that a dude like LuLu Kliffy could prance into the NFL and turn the game on its head, simply because this otherwise unremarkable college coach who had a relationship with the #1 overall pick, also was supposed to be a disciple of the Run & Shoot. And, although the #1 overall pick is the shortest QB in the NFL, the relationship dating back so many years, combined with Kliffy being some sort of offensive savant the likes of which the NFL has never seen - all shortcomings (pardon the pun) of both the QB and Head Coach would be rendered immaterial. All fundamental truths that have been a part of the NFL for decades, would no longer matter as much...
So although LuLu Kliffy still can't manage a game any better than he can manage his way out of a paper bag...with his embarrassingly adolescent play-calling & decision-making...and, although Kyler continues to demonstrate shockingly poor throwing mechanics, zero pocket-presence and total inability to make crucial pre-snap reads, Keim (and Mike B.), decided to look away as Keim dropped back and heaved his Hail Mary.

Well, the Hail Mary failed... The NFL remains the pinnacle of professional sport competition and as such, the Head Coach in Football remains the most important Head Coaching position in any major professional sport. For the Cardinals, they are showing up to gun battles with kitchen knives. That is how much of a weakness LuLu Kliffy creates for this team.

So I wonder if/when Kyler will turn on Kliffy? Or D-Hop...or any number of other players. I wonder if we will ever really know if/when this happens? Regardless...if Mike B truly wants to win, he will suck it up and make the extremely difficult decisions to fire both Keim and Kliffy.
 

nashman

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Kyler is an immense talent and like every QB in football needs to be coached! We don’t currently have the coach IMO to really help him grow. KK is simply in over his head and overwhelmed either needs to be an OC or even our HC but not both! Bringing in a good experienced OC/QB coach to work with KM might be the easiest way for upper management to help fix the problem they created. I just don’t see them admitting KK was a failure so quickly as it looks terrible for them.
 

nashman

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I have my gripes with Kliff & concerns about Kyler, but....


Can you guys stop acting like we have more than enough talent


We legit have no pass rush or shutdown or consistently good CB. You usually have 1.

We

Have

Neither

correct our defense stops no one we consistently give up tons of points, even stopping them a few times today on 4th down and they still put up 38. The fact they even go for it shows the disrespect for our pitiful D lol
 
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82CardsGrad

82CardsGrad

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I have my gripes with Kliff & concerns about Kyler, but....


Can you guys stop acting like we have more than enough talent


We legit have no pass rush or shutdown or consistently good CB. You usually have 1.

We

Have

Neither

correct our defense stops no one we consistently give up tons of points, even stopping them a few times today on 4th down and they still put up 38. The fact they even go for it shows the disrespect for our pitiful D lol
correct our defense stops no one we consistently give up tons of points, even stopping them a few times today on 4th down and they still put up 38. The fact they even go for it shows the disrespect for our pitiful D lol

Not suggesting we have an all-world defense... They're good enough, IF, our offense was carrying its own water. Kliffy and our lack of a legit NFL offense are killing our defense.
 

DVontel

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Not suggesting we have an all-world defense... They're good enough, IF, our offense was carrying its own water. Kliffy and our lack of a legit NFL offense are killing our defense.
Our defense isn’t even good enough


Our CBs are liabilities


Our ILBs(mainly Hicks) are liabilities


Our pass-rush is a liability


Our run-d is a liability


What are you not getting?
 

nashman

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Not suggesting we have an all-world defense... They're good enough, IF, our offense was carrying its own water. Kliffy and our lack of a legit NFL offense are killing our defense.

i disagree our D has been the constant failure since Vance has been here period! They can’t be trusted to stop anyone when it counts and they prove it repeatedly! We score to take a lead or close a gap and then they promptly let the other team score immediately it’s a given. Even when the O was clicking better early on we were not winning convincingly as our D sucks!
 
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82CardsGrad

82CardsGrad

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Our defense isn’t even good enough


Our CBs are liabilities


Our ILBs(mainly Hicks) are liabilities


Our pass-rush is a liability


Our run-d is a liability


What are you not getting?

i disagree our D has been the constant failure since Vance has been here period! They can’t be trusted to stop anyone when it counts and they prove it repeatedly! We score to take a lead or close a gap and then they promptly let the other team score immediately it’s a given. Even when the O was clicking better early on we were not winning convincingly as our D sucks!

Our rush defense and pass defense are far from the worst in the NFL... I simply can't harp on our defense when the most glaring issues lie elsewhere.
 

nashman

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Our rush defense and pass defense are far from the worst in the NFL... I simply can't harp on our defense when the most glaring issues lie elsewhere.

The most glaring issue all year long is wins and losses correct? When your D gives up tons of points at crucial times in games and you lose on the scoreboard, that’s the most glaring issue! Kickers miss kicks, QBs throw picks and have bad games. The D has been bad forever even with Chandler we had trouble stopping or pressuring anyone. How many times have we had bad QBs have great games against us? It might not be what your paying attention too but is absolutely the biggest problem when your team can’t stop the other from scoring. I mean honestly how many points do you expect us to score on a consistent basis, we were nearly 30 before the slide but still found ways to lose and weren’t blowing teams out. If you have to score 30 to win you’ve got defensive issues period!
 

Chopper0080

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I have my gripes with Kliff & concerns about Kyler, but....


Can you guys stop acting like we have more than enough talent


We legit have no pass rush or shutdown or consistently good CB. You usually have 1.

We

Have

Neither
I agree that our defense has actually played a bit better than I thought after Peters went out. That said, the offense has to be prepared to outscore other teams most weeks. Kyler has to get better. Kliff needs to get better. The other players on offense need to not make those things harder than they already are.

My guess is you see more KeeSean vs the Giants.
 

Chopper0080

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Our defense isn’t even good enough


Our CBs are liabilities


Our ILBs(mainly Hicks) are liabilities


Our pass-rush is a liability


Our run-d is a liability


What are you not getting?
All of this is one reason I get so irritated when Simmons is not on the field. He is far from perfect but he is the only player we have who can make a mistake and then still make a play. We are so slow and unathletic as a group that is is tough to understand.

Fotu has seemed to progress which is nice to see.
 

Arz101

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I have my gripes with Kliff & concerns about Kyler, but....


Can you guys stop acting like we have more than enough talent


We legit have no pass rush or shutdown or consistently good CB. You usually have 1.

We

Have

Neither
No kicker, blah punter, no LBs, no DBs (Budda was taken to school today) etc. The talent is atrocious outside of 5 players at the top who are not injured.

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Russ Smith

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Kyler has to play better and the last TD was basically garbage time. That said we scored 28 points against a good defense, we scored 3 TD's in the 2nd half on a team that had allowed 2 TD's in the 2nd half in the first 11 games combined. For the year Kyler has 22 TD passes and 10 rushing TD's, he had 3 passing TD's today and just look at them a laser to D Hop that barely got there, a great backing up throw to Arnold that barely got there, and the play to Arnold on the busted coverage. As I said during the game thread the contrast was alarming, they were wide open by scheme the whole game, Kyler was having to fit the ball into tight windows with pressure inside and outside the whole game. I'm sure he missed some open guys, and yes he made some bad throws but he needs help from his coaches.

He also needs Hopkins to get his foot down so Zane can miss a 41 yarder instead of a 49 yarder. He needs Zane to stop missing kicks. It's a team game and while he HAS to play better so does everyone else. The number of WTF conversions on defense today, we need the ref to call linemen downfield on that 22 yard screen to Akers, that was ridiculous. We need PP to not play so deep and give up an easy 3rd and 11 to the TE.

But with all that, we were still in the game until Kyler threw the picksix, he CANNOT do that. Again I have no idea what happened there we had 2 guys in the same place I don't know if Andy ran the wrong route, if he was supposed to throw that ball over the top to Kirk I have no clue what happened but clearly Kyler had to see be expecting something different there the passrush certainly didn't cause that one. He CANNOT do that, he's got to see it. Such a weird play I think Kirk was trying to clear the underneath and the DB held him up and then they both played the route to Andy so they clearly expected it, if Kyler had pumped he could have had Kirk over the top for a big play but he threw it and it ended the game.

We HAVE to win 3 games to have any chance at a wildcard berth and frankly I want to win all 4. I'm not convinced the way we're playing we can win more than 2, gotta turn it around now.
 

dscher

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Our defense isn’t even good enough


Our CBs are liabilities


Our ILBs(mainly Hicks) are liabilities


Our pass-rush is a liability


Our run-d is a liability


What are you not getting?
If the point here is that keim is the problem, which I have zero issue with, then it will mean KK will inevitably go down with that ship as well imo. It will be a clean slate kinda thing whether it's kk's fault or not.
 
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82CardsGrad

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The most glaring issue all year long is wins and losses correct? When your D gives up tons of points at crucial times in games and you lose on the scoreboard, that’s the most glaring issue! Kickers miss kicks, QBs throw picks and have bad games. The D has been bad forever even with Chandler we had trouble stopping or pressuring anyone. How many times have we had bad QBs have great games against us? It might not be what your paying attention too but is absolutely the biggest problem when your team can’t stop the other from scoring. I mean honestly how many points do you expect us to score on a consistent basis, we were nearly 30 before the slide but still found ways to lose and weren’t blowing teams out. If you have to score 30 to win you’ve got defensive issues period!

There are 19 defenses in the NFL that have given up more points that the Cards defense.
C'mon dude...
 

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On the pick six Hopkins was wide open on a shallow cross middle of field for at least 20 yards

There was no need to lock in that cluster area seeing progressions are next step in Murray growth
 

Arz101

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On the pick six Hopkins was wide open on a shallow cross middle of field for at least 20 yards

There was no need to lock in that cluster area seeing progressions are next step in Murray growth
This why I harp on Kliff being the least of the problems as the offensive guy in charge.

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82CardsGrad

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And there are 24 NFL that have scored less points than the Cards offense.

Yep. Which furthers the point I've been making all season... which is, if Kyler isn't working magic with his legs, this team can't win.
Seriously, how many other teams can't win - like, 100% it's impossible to win, if their QB is forced to make plays in the pocket?
If Kyler ain't running, we ain't winning... And, in the NFL, a purely running QB who can't operate in the pocket, can't sustain winning...
 

AZ Native

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Yep. Which furthers the point I've been making all season... which is, if Kyler isn't working magic with his legs, this team can't win.
Seriously, how many other teams can't win - like, 100% it's impossible to win, if their QB is forced to make plays in the pocket?
If Kyler ain't running, we ain't winning... And, in the NFL, a purely running QB who can't operate in the pocket, can't sustain winning...
Just saying the 2 guys you want to get rid of have scored more points than all but 7 teams. We have holes everywhere, this is not a great team and our offensive points are not the problem.
 

Arz101

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Kliff is the HC, not the OC, and he is clearly not equipped to be the former.
Kliff may not be the answer yet. Kliff is no Steve Wills either. Kliff deserves some time but with this GM, Kliff is bound to fail. A new GM may not want Kliff. So, I expect all the coaches including VJ and Keim to return. Keim will try to spend as much money as possible in the FA. Cardinals will end up with 5-11 record in 2021. House will be cleaned. 2022 start over.

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Solar7

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Kliff may not be the answer yet. Kliff is no Steve Wills either. Kliff deserves some time but with this GM, Kliff is bound to fail. A new GM may not want Kliff. So, I expect all the coaches including VJ and Keim to return. Keim will try to spend as much money as possible in the FA. Cardinals will end up with 5-11 record in 2021. House will be cleaned. 2022 start over.

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We need to stop comparing everything to Steve Wilks. This board has battered Wilks syndrome.

It's constantly "don't you remember how bad that one year was!? Well look at us now!"

We're still bad, just different bad. It's like the argument to get rid of Rosen for Murray, let's not get caught up in sunk costs.
 

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