Should the Cardinals retire Larry Centers number??

[Cheesebeef]

I also forgot to point out Aeneas' impact on the 2001 Rams team.

the one that lost the Super Bowl as prohibitive favorites?

Honestly - Aeneas was the second best corner out of that era behind Deion. Rod Woodson gets the glory because he was on better teams, but Aeneas was better IMO - he didn't have as much to work with and was an animal on the field. Not as good as Deion still, but no one in the history of the game has been either.

I still believe Aeneas should have his jersey retired.

 

[Duckjake]

no, he was a hard working guy and you love the effort, but all he basically did was catch a bunch of 7 yard passes on 3rd and 9 before we punted. his % converting them to 1st downs wasn't great, wasn't bad, but it was simply a case of a QB falling in love with one guy and going to him over and over when he had very little chance of getting the first down.

Boldin's rookie year was a phenomenal year, and he got first downs on 60% of his catches, working over the middle on a horrible team with everyone laying in wait for him over the middle to try and take his head off.

Centers on bad teams with defenses designed to let him catch the ball and then tackle him short, got first downs at about 45 %. again it's not a bad number, but it's not exceptional at all, he just got the ball thrown to him over and over. plus he had only one year where he had more than 3 TD's receiving.

Great role player but on a bad team, a 3rd down receiving back playing with QB's who kept throwing him the ball. If you notice, when Jake became the QB , Centers numbers went down, because Jake early in his career actually looked downfield. Later he got gunshy with all the picks, but early on he was aggressive downfield for us and that made Larry's numbers fall to more like what a 3rd down rb should catch.

Good teams don't usually win with 100 catches from a RB.

This is not the Larry Centers I remember seeing at SDS. More of catching a 3 yard dump off pass on 3rd and 7 and somehow managing to get 8 yards with no blocking. The fans didn't chant Larry! Larry! because he came up short all the time on 3rd and long.

Larry was expendable because he became a fan favorite was rewarded with a larger than necessary contract for a 3rd down back and therefore became a cap casualty.

Retire his #? NO. The only Cardinal I would nominate would be Trey Junkin. Played in more losing games than any other player in NFL history. Most of them with the Cardinals. That kind of special effort deserves special recognition.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is not the Larry Centers I remember seeing at SDS. More of catching a 3 yard dump off pass on 3rd and 7 and somehow managing to get 8 yards with no blocking. The fans didn't chant Larry! Larry! because he came up short all the time on 3rd and long.

.

Well note I agree Larry was really good at waht he did, but if you look at the catches and first downs, it becomes clear that he was only converting at a rate in the 30's to 40's percentage wise.

Now that's not bad, LT 2 years ago had 100 catches and only 26 first downs, this year he had only 53 catches and the offense was a lot better because they were going downfield to guys like Gates. Sometimes QB's(like Brees) get so locked in on safety valves it can actually hurt an offense.

Doesn't mean it was Centers fault they kept throwing to him, but that was one of the reasons our offense wasn't better, the QB's (largely before Jake) were too reliant on Centers on 3rd down and teams just waited on it.

 

[john h]

It's just a thought....He was one of the best Cardinals players of all-time

A good player but not that good.

 

[duckfallas]

No on Larry Centers number being retired, and yes on Aeneas Williams being better than Dion. Dion was faster and had better coverage/return skills, but he was not the all around player that Williams was. Aeneas could do it all. Shut an opposing WR down, play the run, and hit the living crap out of you like he did when he ended Steve Young's career. Sanders avoided contact and that makes him less of a football player, IMO. Better cover corner? Yes. Better football player and all around CB? No.

 

[ajcardfan]

I remember Troy Aikman calling Aeneas the "The best corner we face every year", or something very close to that. And, he was a contemporary of Deion, so, if Aikman has a vote, that will be one for Aeneas.

I think Aeneas will be very close to getting in, but not make it. I actually lost pretty much all respect for the process when Dan Hampton made it.

 

[joeshmo]

I dont believe in retiring numbers at all.

You got 80+ players and in some cases 90+ becuase of NFLE exceptions in training camp. It is going to be really hard to find them numbers to wear if you start retiring them.

Ring of Honor I am all for.

 

[kerouac9]

I remember Troy Aikman calling Aeneas the "The best corner we face every year", or something very close to that. And, he was a contemporary of Deion, so, if Aikman has a vote, that will be one for Aeneas.

But Deion and Aikman played on the same team for most of their careers, so Aikman never had to "face" Deion, especially every year.

It seems to me like what Aikman was really saying was that Aeneas was "the best corner besides Deion".

 

[Bobcat]

But Deion and Aikman played on the same team for most of their careers, so Aikman never had to "face" Deion, especially every year.

It seems to me like what Aikman was really saying was that Aeneas was "the best corner besides Deion".

Didn't Deion played mostly for Atlanta, San Fran, then Dallas, and now Ravens.

Bobcat

 

[duckfallas]

Dion played for whoever was about to win a Super Bowl. Real team guy!

 

[Bobcat]

Dion played for whoever was about to win a Super Bowl. Real team guy!

You hit it right on the money...!!!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Dion played for whoever was about to win a Super Bowl. Real team guy!

Actually - late in Deion's career he played for teams that COULDN'T win the Super Bowl then put them over the hump.

I'm pretty sure he only played one year for the Niners - isn't that right? After the Niners kicked the holy hell out of Dallas and then romped over the Chargers, Deion left, went to the Cowboys, they won the Super Bowl and San Frans secondary without Deion got torched (at home) against a Brett Favre-led Packers team that was just starting to figure out how good they were.

Aeneas was great - the second best corner of this era - but if anyone had a choice between who to put out there onthe field, I'd think EVERYONE but some people on this board would take Deion in a milli-second over him.

 

[duckfallas]

They probably would. But only because Dion was the flashier player who got more media coverage and attention. I'd take Aeneas and I think those who had a chance to watch the consistency and quality of his NFL career would pick him over Dion too. Most never got the chance to see him play.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Dion played for whoever was about to win a Super Bowl. Real team guy!

uh - unlike, say - a certain Cardinal player who forced his way off the team to play for a Super Bowl contender, like, um, the Rams?

 

[40yearfan]

uh - unlike, say - a certain Cardinal player who forced his way off the team to play for a Super Bowl contender, like, um, the Rams?

Cheesy, I always thought that AW joining the Rams was the thing that turned their defense around and made it decent enough so that they could win. With the offense they had, the defense just had to be average for them to win games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheesy, I always thought that AW joining the Rams was the thing that turned their defense around and made it decent enough so that they could win. With the offense they had, the defense just had to be average for them to win games.

Right - kind of like Deion who did the same for the Niners. And then like he did for the Cowboys the following year.

 

[mncardfan]

I don't post much, but I have to get in on this. No way should Centers have a retired number, and probably not AW either, simply because they just can't retire every great players number.

However as far is AW and the HOF, he should be a LOCK!!!! He is by far the best corner in his era and I will tell you why. What is the corner's job in a football game? We all know it is to cover the WR first and foremost. However in a football game they have this play called the RUNNING play. That is when the runningback takes the ball from the quarterback and RUNS with it. Now the CB doesn't just say, oh its a running play, I can now sit here and do nothing cause the WR is not involved in this play. Nope, it is his job to come up and make a tackle when the RB gets past the other defensive players.

So how many running plays versus passing, I don't know but I bet its about 50/50. So that tells me that Dieon was useless on about half of the plays he was in because the guy would do an ooooooollllllaaaaaaayyyy (bullfighting reference there) whenever a RB came his way. If someone had years to research, I bet they would find out good running teams could beat DS teams because they would run toward his side. Furthermore I bet you would find out that DS teams would put their best DE's on Sanders' side just for that reason.

Now look at AW. The guy was really just as good as sanders, or very close on shutting down WRs. However he also was an excellent run supporter. The only reason DS played as long as he has is because he never made a hard tackle, saving his body. AW is leaving the game BECAUSE he made those hard tackles and is banged up. In review AW WAS a better CB than DS as an overall CB, no question, no doubt, and he deserves a HOF bid.

I certainly think DS deserves to be in the HOF, even as much as AW does, but not on his CB talent alone. He was the best kick returner probably ever, and the best pure cover guy ever, and that will put him in the HOF. But technically he is not the best all around CB in his era, that would be AW, and that, if you understand the position, should not be questioned.

mncardfan

 

[Cheesebeef]

that would be AW, and that, if you understand the position, should not be questioned.

mncardfan

mncardfan has spoke - I guess we should lock this thread down as any other interpretations would be questioning the almighty.

 

[mncardfan]

mncardfan has spoke - I guess we should lock this thread down as any other interpretations would be questioning the almighty.

indeed, you finally got it right cheese

 

[Redheart]

mncardfan has spoke - I guess we should lock this thread down as any other interpretations would be questioning the almighty.

Can't fault his reasoning?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Can't fault his reasoning?

just too lazy. Deion's cover skills overcompensate for his rather poor run defense. No one's EVER covered like Deion. If you can shut down an entire side of a field (something Aeneas NEVER could do) that says as much about your worth/impact on the game as having a good all around game.

 

[mncardfan]

I think to say AW could NEVER shutdown a side of the field is overstating it a bit. But I will grant you that there is no doubt DS was a shutdown CB his entire career until he joined the Ravens. Your right, that and his kickreturning, over compensate for the lack of run support and he will be in the HOF.

He's just not a better complete CB than AW, or Rod Woodson in his prime.

I'm glad we could agree on this, I hate arguments.

mncardfan

 

[Redheart]

just too lazy. Deion's cover skills overcompensate for his rather poor run defense. No one's EVER covered like Deion. If you can shut down an entire side of a field (something Aeneas NEVER could do) that says as much about your worth/impact on the game as having a good all around game.

I remember AW shutting down a pretty good receiver by the name of Micheal Irvin. If I remember correctly, AW broke MI's consecutive-games-with-a-catch streak.

AW did not shut down an entire side of a field that day. But he did take a future HOF receiver completely out of the game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I remember AW shutting down a pretty good receiver by the name of Micheal Irvin. If I remember correctly, AW broke MI's consecutive-games-with-a-catch streak.

AW did not shut down an entire side of a field that day. But he did take a future HOF receiver completely out of the game.

once - Deion did that ALL the time. It was also near the end of Irvin's career.

An impressive day nonetheless, but what seems to be the exception in Aeneas' career was the norm for Deion.

 

[vince56]

back on topic...

IIRC, Didn't Larry Centers only get selected to 1 pro bowl in his tenure with the Cardinals? ...and didn't he have a nervous breakdown or something and never played in that 1 pro bowl he was selected to (the alternate FB from Atlanta had to play instead).

The jersey retirement is for someone who shows excellence for a number of years, AND BRINGS NATIONAL RECOGNITION TO THE TEAM. Brett Favre, John Elway, Deion Sanders, Mike Singletary, etc. Those guys are the HOF guys, A grade players. Larry Centers was a B grade player. Good, but not great, and he never earned enough national recognition to get anything more than 1 pro bowl vote in his time in AZ.

No jersey retirement for him.

Damnit, the season needs to start. All of us in AZ should just petition for the month of July to be removed from the calendar. I hate the weather and the dullness of this month. Come on August 1st and training camp!!