Saturday Thoughts: Mac's Last Stand?

ajcardfan

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It's kind of amazing that play is being discussed to the extent it is months after it happened.

I'd agree with Shane IF that play had happened in the fourth quarter, we were trying to drive for a winning score, it was fourth down, maybe even third. But, the fact that it occured inside OUR redzone, in a scoreless game in the first half makes it, IMO, maybe the most boneheaded play I've ever personally witnessed. The only thing I can think of that disgusted me more was the Steve Bono 70 yd TD "run" on a naked bootleg back in the Buddy era.
 

AzWins23

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Give Coach Mac the players and he will succeed!!

VandenBosch, Wakefield, Davis, are not pro bowl players
maybe Bryant..But we don't know yet

McKinnon is a decent player..So is Thompson

To put it all in prespective...we are a minor league Football team...with Minor League player....You are not going to win games with average players!!! No coach can take average player to a superbowl...it just doesnt happen
 

Northern Card

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The bonehead play that really pissed me off was when JAKE lost the handle on the ball when it was knocked away by the Carolina DE who beat Big cleanly... and then, and this is really stupid.. rather than falling on the ball, taking the loss - but saving the down - He picked it up, scrambled and hit Martay on the didelines. Sure, it lead to the winning field goal... but there's no excuse for not playing the percentages and falling on the ball in those circumstances. Stupid is stupid.. there was absolutely no justification for that play... NONE, NIET, NIEN!!!!:wave:
 

Tangodnzr

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I don't know what happened to it, but earlier VC had made a post in regard to my saying Anderson played the Giants game.

He was correct. Brain fart there on my part. It was week 5 in Carolina that neither TJ or Shipp were active...not the Giants game in week 4. Although both got hurt in the San Diego game (#3).

Arizona Cardinals At Carolina Panthers
RUSHING ATT YDS AVG LG TD
D.Anderson 23 61 2.7 14 0
J.Plummer 3 15 5.0 7 0
J.Makovicka 2 10 5.0 6 0
F.Sanders 1 5 5.0 5 0

Total 29 91 3.1 14 0

Did Not Play QB 12 J.McCown, RB 31 M.Shipp, */T 73 R.Roundtree QB

Not Active QB 15 P.Parsons, CB 22 D.Starks, RB 26 T.Jones, FB 39 D.McKinley, OLB 52 L.Fisher, T 65 A.Clement, WR 83 J.McAddley, DE 96 D.Johnson
 

Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by Walter Mitchell

What spots does Mac need to change this year?


(3) Make smarter and quicker decisions on the sidelines, especially in terms of clock management. Perhaps Mac should pick the assistant he trusts the most ( I would recommend Jerry Sullivan) to consult with him during the games. Mac is an emotional guy...which is good...but emotions can get the better of a coach on the sidelines. At crunch time, Mac has to be able to check his emotions and make good, clear decisions.
I can agree that some of the game time sideline decisions could have been better last year. But I disagree with some of the rest of the comments. Yes, as head coach Mac has to accept responsibility for every decision made. But again I feel you hyperbolize and exaggerate no little amount here. As I mentioned before, do YOU have some divine knowledge as to exactly who was making specific calls during the game? Mac has never seemed to be a control freak, and I seriously doubt he makes every little decision in the game, and even when he does, I am also willing to bet he doesn't do it in a vacuum. Especially on offense. To insinuate he didn't consult other coaches particulary Olsen on offense and Marmie on defense, is just flat ludicrous.

(5) Do a better job of putting together the roster. If Josh McCown isn't ready to be the primary backup at the start of the season, Mac's got to get a veteran backup for the meantime. Going into the season last year with McCown as the primary backup was an egregious mistake. Some people say, "Well, it didn't cost us, Jake didn't get hurt." Think again, because if Mac had another QB to turn to when Jake was stinking the joint out, maybe the team would have won a few more games...and Mac may have been able to maintain his players' respect.
Jake is not the reason this team went 5-11 last year. He played every game. Some of his mistakes hurt, but as usual he also made up for a lot of them. Jake did what was expected of him, as he most always did here...he stayed healthy the whole season. So his level of play was dissapointing, but he's gone now. Changes WERE made. The only gamble the Cards took in regard to Jake/McCown/Parsons was that Jake might go down. He didn't. So that gamble cannot be critiicized in that regard. Jake didn't "stink the joint up" that much. Yes he made some mistakes, but again, they were not the only or even primary cause for last seasons record. Most people had high expectations for Jake last season, as he had finished fairly strong in 2001, he just didn't live up to expectation.

We hear that guys like Wakefield, Tanner and Davis aren't working out with the team in the off-season program. These are three guys who would have a hard time making any NFL roster...and Rod Graves better be ready top make some moves June 1st because it's pure folly to think that the Cardinals have solved the pass rushing problems by merely adding a couple more rookies to an already less than average bunch. There should be MAJOR turnover on the defensive line this year. To me the only ones who are locks are KVB, Bryant, Bell, Johnson and Pace. Two new players are needed at the minimum, possible three, although Alton Moore or Kenny King might be a nice surprise.
Hey, its the middle of May. There's a long way to go until the new season starts. Davis has been hurt, I thought Jim O. said Wakefield has been around. This seems like more just dumping on the Cards without really having all the facts, and a little premature even at that.


(6) Condition the players harder and better. The injuries have to be minimized and there's no better way to prevent injuries than by getting the team into tip-top shape.
From what has been posted lately in regard to the Cards weight training, It would appear that Ruguski's methods actullly do take injury preventioin into considerable account. Another way of base, and unfactual hypotheris here.

(7) The coaching staff as a whole has to do a much better job of integrating the young talent into the football team. Developing the talent and self-confidence of the younger players has not been a particular trademark of the current staff.
Hmmm, again, there is no real substantiation of any kind to this comment. In fact, if anything Mac has shown a tendancy to be reluctant to throw young players into to fire any sooner than he absolutely has to. Self confidence comes with experience and winning.....when the majority of your team, especially on the defensive side is young, neither of those is going normally come quickly or easily. In the meantime you do the best you can with what you have. Once again, I feel this a totally unjust accusation.

(8) Finally, make sure this year that the WORDS and the MUSIC match. No coach in the NFL has better words than Mac. If Mac can make sure this time around that his actions back up his words, his credibility with the players, the media and the fans will not only be restored, Mac's credibility will be relished.
And finally....I say Mac HAS NOT lost all the credibility you suggest he has, and I don't see his actions being as counter to what he says as you claim. Sure some of you who tend to spend the majority of your time being negative may claim such things, what else is new?
 
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vince56

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Re: Re: Saturday Thoughts: Mac's Last Stand?

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
...But neither him nor TJ had been performing very well since the San Diego game when both came up gimpy. TJ with the high ankle sprain, and Marcel injuring his left knee. In fact neither even suited up for the Giants game. Damian Anderson started and played that one.

[/B]

I think you mean the Carolina game. Shipp singlehandedly beat the hell out of the Giants.


EDIT: You caught it, cool. Sorry bout the late post :)
 
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kerouac9

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Tango, the defense (which is Mac's specialty, I believe) quit last season. That's the only excuse for getting blown out by 30+ points over and over at the end of the season. If Mac is such a great motivator, then why did all this good players (Wilson, KVB, Bryant, Jake, DB, TJ) quit on him?

Yes, the offense was decimated by injury, but the D was sieve-like for the entire second three-quarters of the season. And that's not an opinion, that's a fact. The Offense was equally mediocre, in my opinion, all season long, but the D, which was the main reason we were 4-2 after six weeks, decided they didn't want to play anymore after the Neeners game, and so they didn't stop anyone for the remainder of the season.

That's the coach's fault. And no one else's. If the Cards remain as uncompetitive in 2003 as they were in the last ten (!) weeks of 2002, Mac will be the D-Coordinator for the Bears or Saints in 2004.
 

Tangodnzr

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Kerouac, again I totally disagree.

Last 10 game of season:
SF 38 - Cards 28
Rams 24 - Cards 17
Seattle 27 Cards 6 ( Cards 3 fumbles deep in Seattle territory late in game to seal the defeat)

Eagles 38 - Cards 14
Raiders 41 - Cards 20
Chiefs 49 - Cards 0

Cards 23 - Lions 20
Rarms 30 - Cards 28
SF 17 - Cards 14
Denver 37 - Cards 7

Boy talk about mis representation and exaggeration!!!

Only TWICE all season did the Cards get beat by 30 or more points....first the debacle against KC and then the final game against Denver, which I already posted the starting lineup.

The next to last 3 games of the season the point differential was +3, -2, -3. All very competitive games.
Get your facts straight before you make such outlandish statements.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Interesting point AZWINS.....I have often thought about that, and it would make an interesting discussion: often from other media outlets, people make it out to seem that our talent is terrible, and Mac is lucky to get the wins that he does. I don't know if I would agree with that, but it is an interesting question.

Once again Tango, you embarass yourself by attacking one of the most insightful, and well written pieces on the board. Your brainless, and often moronic optimism has gotten extremely tiresome for the vast majority of the board. Many of us love the Cardinals, but also accept the fact that they have many, many faults. Hopefully you will realize this someday....:rolleyes:
 
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kerouac9

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Kerouac, again I totally disagree.

Last 10 game of season:
SF 38 - Cards 28
Rams 24 - Cards 17
Seattle 27 Cards 6 ( Cards 3 fumbles deep in Seattle territory late in game to seal the defeat)

Eagles 38 - Cards 14
Raiders 41 - Cards 20
Chiefs 49 - Cards 0

Cards 23 - Lions 20
Rarms 30 - Cards 28
SF 17 - Cards 14
Denver 37 - Cards 7

Boy talk about mis representation and exaggeration!!!

Now who's misrepresenting? Did you watch any of those "close" games? The San Fran game was over early, and both teams were mailing it in (T.O. wasn't even playing, because they're playoff seeding was assured). The Lions team was awful all season on offense, and the fact that we barely beat them (the second time in two years) speaks to the point that the team wasn't really trying at all (if they were, we would have pummled them). I think the Lions might have lead the league in three and outs in 2002. Was defense not nonexistent in that Rams game? I think the 30 points given up, and the inability to stop their O to win the game, speaks for itself.

If you honestly think that the Cards D gave up all those points while playing their best, you think that the D is less talented than anyone on the Dark Side.
 

Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by kerouac9
Now who's misrepresenting? Did you watch any of those "close" games? The San Fran game was over early, and both teams were mailing it in (T.O. wasn't even playing, because they're playoff seeding was assured). The Lions team was awful all season on offense, and the fact that we barely beat them (the second time in two years) speaks to the point that the team wasn't really trying at all (if they were, we would have pummled them). I think the Lions might have lead the league in three and outs in 2002. Was defense not nonexistent in that Rams game? I think the 30 points given up, and the inability to stop their O to win the game, speaks for itself.

If you honestly think that the Cards D gave up all those points while playing their best, you think that the D is less talented than anyone on the Dark Side.
As a matter of fact I did watch.
And it IS YOU not me that continues to exaggerate, twist and distort facts to fit your own needs.

I don't know what game you were watching, but the SF game was basically close the whole game. Here's the quarter breakdowns?
SF - 7, 3, 7, 0
AZ - 0, 7, 0, 7.

Yes, Owens did not play, but it was not JUST because the 49'ers seeding was assured. He had missid practice all week with a groin problem, and with their playoff position already assured, Mooch, quite understandably, chose to rest him.

I didn't see anyone "mailing it in". Garcia was 23/39. 39 passes a game is not what I'd call "mailing it in".

You can moan and groan and dis the Lions all you want, but the fact is, THE CARDS WON THE GAME. I also think most people who paid much attention would say that the Lions were a better team at the end of the year than they were at the beginning. Now that may not be saying a lot, but a win is a win is a win!!!!!!

In the Rams game the Cards were ahead with 20 seconds left to go in the game, when the Rams kicked the field goal to win by 2.
Faulk was hobbled, and the Rams were 19 carries for 66 yds rushing. Yes Bulger threw it up 40 times, for 319 yds. and Holt had a big game. (7 - 141). But again the fact remains , the game was competitive at the end.

Which debunks your less than genius exaggerations of how terrible the team was. Even Walter in his latest flight into nega nega land commented how the Cards defense played more inspired than it had been.

Get your stories straight guys. Your tired old "damned if they do, and damned if they don't whining" gets to be like a broken record.

I remind you again of your first post:
"Tango, the defense (which is Mac's specialty, I believe) quit last season. That's the only excuse for getting blown out by 30+ points over and over at the end of the season."
I have already shown what an exaggeration that was.

You are pathetic. Go blow your nose little boy, clear some of that dark side out, and maybe clean your brain up a little.

Your weak attempt to put words in my mouth that I didn't say is also pathetic....and school boyish. But what can we expect....after all, that's all you are.
I never said the Cards were a great defensive team, but neither was the team as uncompetive as you say, nor did they "quit" for the last 10 games as you so ignorantly stated.
:cool:
 

kerouac9

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You're right, Tango. The Cards D was obviously one of the top units in the league last season, and performed to their potential all season long. That's why they were so competitive in every game, garnered so much positive national press, and filled the stadium with rowdy Cardinal fans for every home game.

They defeated the teams they were supposed to, and by wide margins. They fought hard against those few teams at their level, and put up valiant efforts that were reflected in the final scores.

All the players were giving up 100% on every play, and were well prepared, coached, and motivated for all 17 weeks of the season.

With all these givens, it's very odd that they were picking #6 overall, and not winning the Super Bowl.
 

Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by kerouac9
You're right, Tango. The Cards D was obviously one of the top units in the league last season, and performed to their potential all season long. That's why they were so competitive in every game, garnered so much positive national press, and filled the stadium with rowdy Cardinal fans for every home game.

They defeated the teams they were supposed to, and by wide margins. They fought hard against those few teams at their level, and put up valiant efforts that were reflected in the final scores.

All the players were giving up 100% on every play, and were well prepared, coached, and motivated for all 17 weeks of the season.

With all these givens, it's very odd that they were picking #6 overall, and not winning the Super Bowl.
Amazing, simply amazing. You prove my point in spades. Keep exaggerating and putting words in my mouth I didn't say, fule. (special ******** spelling just for you).
 

SECTION 11

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The defense sucked last year.
They absolutely sucked. There's no sugar-coating it.

We won five games, got pummelled for 49 points, gift wrapped a ROY award for Clinton Portis, gave up 4.4 ypc and finished close to last in about every major statistical category.

I don't see where the debate is.

Next year, they should be better.
Last year, they sucked.


Ok, back to the pissing contest. Sorry.
 

kerouac9

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Amazing, simply amazing. You prove my point in spades. Keep exaggerating and putting words in my mouth I didn't say, fule. (special ******** spelling just for you). [/B]

Tango, if the Cards were as good as you obviously think they were last season, explain to my why they went 5-11. If they were so great defensively, why did they end up in the bottom 10 in basically all statistical categories? What words did I misspell in my last post?
 

Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by kerouac9
Tango, if the Cards were as good as you obviously think they were last season, explain to my why they went 5-11. If they were so great defensively, why did they end up in the bottom 10 in basically all statistical categories? What words did I misspell in my last post?



That's right, change the subject now that I've exposed your exaggerations. My posts, and I clearly stated their intent from the beginning, was to simply call you on your exagerrated claims that the Cards team had "quit" for the last 10 games and were never competitive. Never once did I make any claims to their being a great defensive football team. As I have repeatedly said, and you either fail to comprehend or choose to ignore, I simply called you on your exaggerated diatribe. That's it.
 

kerouac9

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
That's right, change the subject now that I've exposed your exaggerations. My posts, and I clearly stated their intent from the beginning, was to simply call you on your exagerrated claims that the Cards team had "quit" for the last 10 games and were never competitive. Never once did I make any claims to their being a great defensive football team. As I have repeatedly said, and you either fail to comprehend or choose to ignore, I simply called you on your exaggerated diatribe. That's it. [/B]

Tango, go back and write some more Plummer fan fiction.

Either the Cards D was good or bad. If they were trying hard and still allowed 30 points a game, then they're really, really bad. If they're good, but allowed 30 points a game, they quit on their team, coach, and city.

Choose one. Your obnoxiousness has become tired.
 

Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by kerouac9
Tango, go back and write some more Plummer fan fiction.

Either the Cards D was good or bad. If they were trying hard and still allowed 30 points a game, then they're really, really bad. If they're good, but allowed 30 points a game, they quit on their team, coach, and city.

Choose one. Your obnoxiousness has become tired.

LOL...keep it up sonny. Your continued comments demonstrate nothing more than how far you can stretch the limits of human ignorance.
 

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