SA Scores 5 Pts. In First Quarter vs. Hawks?

[TucsonDevil]

Exactly.And I believe the nba commissioner idiot is now wishing to see Spurs-Lakers Western finals.

Now that the Suns have Shaq, I believe the NBA FO is hoping for a Suns/Lakers WC Finals. In the East, Boston/Cleveland.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I have no access to the polls that the NBA has surely taken, but it seems likely. All the tatoos, images projected, and possies, are perhaps ugly to an important affluent market sector, including the one that buys tickets as a business function, to take their clients out($$$$).

This point makes me consider something... the company I work for (like most large companies), often pays athletes to host party events for top Business associates and executives. Companies are big time sponsors of many sporting events, and then leverage their presence to obtain athletes for events to meet their clients. However, I don't recall my company sponsoring any NBA games or events. What companies sponsor the NBA? Besides, Nike, Adidas, and/or Reebok?

This begs the question - in the market of "athletes being hired out at corporate events", what share does the NBA hold? I would be curious to see numbers. Much has been made about Lebron's friendship with Warren Buffet, but that certainly is the exception to the rule. It seems to me that NBA players don't mix well with corporate leaders. The same cannot be said about NFL players, PGA Tour Players, Tennis Players, Baseball Players, and even NASCAR.

 

[ambchang_]

nowagimp, I have to say this is the best, and only, explanation that I have heard about protecting the Spurs, but this goes against protecting LA with the presence of Kobe Bryant, which is directly contradictory to the long vs. short term goals of the league.
Also, the Suns have Steve Nash, who is about as white and upstanding a person as you can get, and is a perfect spokesman for the league to that demographic, instead of a guy like Tim Duncan, who's on record as calling the league ******** on the new corporate-friendly dress code.
Finally, the most darling team the league has are the Suns and the Warriors the last few seasons. It is clear that casual fans are attracted to high-scoring teams, and not a methodical team like the Spurs or Jazz (who actually is quite good offensively). The numbers simply does not support your claim (TV ratings, merchandise sales, attendance).

 

[nowagimp]

nowagimp, I have to say this is the best, and only, explanation that I have heard about protecting the Spurs, but this goes against protecting LA with the presence of Kobe Bryant, which is directly contradictory to the long vs. short term goals of the league.
Also, the Suns have Steve Nash, who is about as white and upstanding a person as you can get, and is a perfect spokesman for the league to that demographic, instead of a guy like Tim Duncan, who's on record as calling the league ******** on the new corporate-friendly dress code.
Finally, the most darling team the league has are the Suns and the Warriors the last few seasons. It is clear that casual fans are attracted to high-scoring teams, and not a methodical team like the Spurs or Jazz (who actually is quite good offensively). The numbers simply does not support your claim (TV ratings, merchandise sales, attendance).

Kobe: I dont think the league protects kobe, the lakers dont really project hip hop much at all. I am not a kobe fan, but when refs call afoul on his defender, it appears that he has been fouled mostly, not so much for some of the spurs when they are on defense(non calls). Alot of people have forgotten about kobes colorado thing, but not about the brawl at the pallace.

The suns: Its not about being white, its about being marketable, the suns have amare, a "hip hop projecting guy", as their main offensive weapon. Steve Nash is finally becoming popular around the country(now selling jerseys in the top10, finally) and he only has a couple productive years left, not much to invest in for the future of the league.

Tim Duncan calling the dress code ******** underscores his lack of hip hop(his response sounded ********). The league doesnt care about the criticism, its about image and $$. If they cared they would fine him, that hasnt happened. TD is a shining example for other players behaviorwise, except for the whining on calls. I'll bet stern wishes he had a few more TDs saying the dress code was ********.

David Stern loves stars with a future and a good, clean image, Duncan is one of those. Think Yao, Dwade, Lebron, Oden(hopefully), and Dwight Howard(knows how to keep his mouth shut in public). Guys who either are hopeless and need work are: AI, Melo(he's improving), amare(needs to shut his mouth about officiating etc). Lebron better watch his Jay Z connection. Though when interviewed, Lebron sounds very consciously non hip hop(not much slang) for a Jay Z fan. You can bet Lebron has some serious image consultants and has been "coached" by the league.

The warriors or suns are hardly the darlings of the NBA front office. The Jazz are in Utah, enough said. Like I said, temporary ratings dont mean much to the 5-15 year plan. Think about social engineering to change the NBA culture. Also think POPs( a former intelligence guy) certainly will be aware of this, moreso than any other coach, perhaps.

 

[ambchang_]

When I mentioned LA and Kobe, it was to reference to an earlier post where poster mentioned LA and Spurs will be protected by Stern, which, with Kobe's previously embarrassing the league with rape allegations, doesn't make sense. ANd I doubt anybody have forgotten Kobe's Colorado misadventures. It's about the biggest off court story in NBA history outside of Magic Johnson.

Suns are about as marketable as any team in the league. And Duncan has about the same amoutn of productive years as Nash. The Spurs will NOT be competitve in a few years.

Duncan's has clearly peaked. You can argue that he is still in his prime, but there is no question that his domination (01 to 05) is over. He is still good, but so is Nash, so why doesn't the Suns get calls (according to Suns fans). On the other hand, AI has been one of the most marketable players in the league. Hip Hop image has been sold to middle-income America just fine in the movies and music. Young males in that demographic, which I would assume is the biggest group the NBA is trying to tap, has been hugely receptive to the hiphop culture. If you don't believe me, check IMDB, go to your local HMV, check iTunes.

I would argue that it would be extremely short sighted for the NBA to focus on their bread and butter demographic and not adapt to the new age market. The market you described were 80s fans, maybe even part of the 90's, but to argue that they are not significant in 00's, and especially 5 to 15 years in the future is just plain wrong.

Hiphop image does not equate to thuggery, players who have embraced hip hop and are upstanding citizens are plenty. Yes the league is trying to clean up the thuggery part of the game, but to say that they are looking to shut out the hip hop generation is insane.

Perhaps the most likely scenario is, the Spurs simply played the Suns, and the Suns lost. The officiating wasn't overly in favour of the Spurs, end of Game 4 was markedly in favour of the Suns. And when you look at the FTA for both team throughout the series, you can't help but ask why the Suns are shooting a similar $ of FTs when their offense is around perimeter shooting while the Spurs are an inside out team.

Just admit it, it is nothing more than an excuse to claim moral victory.

 

[BeeBeard]

Also, the Suns have Steve Nash, who is about as white and upstanding a person as you can get, and is a perfect spokesman for the league to that demographic

When I mentioned LA and Kobe, it was to reference to an earlier post where poster mentioned LA and Spurs will be protected by Stern, which, with Kobe's previously embarrassing the league with rape allegations, doesn't make sense. ANd I doubt anybody have forgotten Kobe's Colorado misadventures. It's about the biggest off court story in NBA history outside of Magic Johnson.

All true. We were discussing this in another thread. It's pretty much why Nash wins MVP's and Kobe doesn't.

Suns are about as marketable as any team in the league. And Duncan has about the same amoutn of productive years as Nash. The Spurs will NOT be competitve in a few years.

I wouldn't say the Suns were particularly marketable with their old lineup, but that the league is very desirous of a successful Suns franchise to serve as an exciting foil during this year's playoffs. And you're right, the Spurs had a good run but will be "rebuilding" *cough* tanking *cough* *cough* in the years to come. I honestly think that their window already closed TWO seasons ago, but they managed to piece together one more playoff run last season due to some very unfortunate officiating in the West and by wildly overmatching the pitiful competition coming out of the East. But when I say things like that, people tell me "BeeBeard, you must be smoking crack again." I mean, I was smoking crack again, but what does that have to do with anything? Exactly.

Duncan's has clearly peaked. You can argue that he is still in his prime, but there is no question that his domination (01 to 05) is over. He is still good, but so is Nash, so why doesn't the Suns get calls (according to Suns fans). On the other hand, AI has been one of the most marketable players in the league. Hip Hop image has been sold to middle-income America just fine in the movies and music. Young males in that demographic, which I would assume is the biggest group the NBA is trying to tap, has been hugely receptive to the hiphop culture. If you don't believe me, check IMDB, go to your local HMV, check iTunes.

I thought that affection for AI had dwindled but then I checked out the league's attendance records. The Nuggets are the third-highest road draw, right after the Lakers and Celtics, and right before the Suns ( http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?sort=away_pct&year=2008&seasonType=2 ). That must say something about an NBA owner's ability to profit off of the prison culture.

I would argue that it would be extremely short sighted for the NBA to focus on their bread and butter demographic and not adapt to the new age market. The market you described were 80s fans, maybe even part of the 90's, but to argue that they are not significant in 00's, and especially 5 to 15 years in the future is just plain wrong.

It would be extremely short-sighted of the NBA to not do BOTH. When all things are said and done, the NBA wants to have the most mass appeal it possibly can. You like the guy who beats his girlfriend and has a crapload of tattoos on his neck? The NBA has your back. Are you more for solid fundamental basketball, featuring one of the best bigs ever to play in the ACC? They've got you again. What about exciting up-and-down basketball, based around one of the best point guards ever to play the game? Have a seat and enjoy the show.

Hiphop image does not equate to thuggery, players who have embraced hip hop and are upstanding citizens are plenty. Yes the league is trying to clean up the thuggery part of the game, but to say that they are looking to shut out the hip hop generation is insane.

Yep. We see evidence of this every now and then. For example, when Stern mandated a mandatory dress code for players who were not eligible to play, but were on the bench in street clothes.

Perhaps the most likely scenario is, the Spurs simply played the Suns, and the Suns lost. The officiating wasn't overly in favour of the Spurs, end of Game 4 was markedly in favour of the Suns. And when you look at the FTA for both team throughout the series, you can't help but ask why the Suns are shooting a similar $ of FTs when their offense is around perimeter shooting while the Spurs are an inside out team.

Getting outplayed in one game of a playoff series is exactly why teams play best of seven. Also, it's very naive to compare FTA and total number of foul calls to try to make the argument that officiating was even-handed. It's not what was called--it's what wasn't. Not calling a foul on one team is just as much a benefit as calling a foul on the other. The deck should not have been so stacked against the Suns last season as to turn the series into a one-game affair. That it was is ostensibly the fault of David Stern, his lackey, Stu Jackson, and Tim Donaghy.

I don't blame you, Spurs fans--all you're doing is supporting your favorite basketball team. But to claim that this team did not benefit tremendously from last season's playoff debacle would just be disingenuous.

 

[nowagimp]

Ambchang: its perception, not reality, and the reality is that the NBA hip hop culture is associated with gang culture by a significant fraction of the NBA fanbase. You say the 80's and 90's fanbase is what I identify, those are the leaders of corporate america today, get used to it till they die off. If the NBA product is good, it doesnt need to be customized for hip hoppers, it should be universal. MJ was universal as was magic, as was DR J(he even shaved off his afro to be more universal) as was Isiah. AI is regarded as a street punk by some, regardless of ticket sales, viewership is WAY DOWN, remember that. Kind of like why many businesses dont want you interfacing with the public with visible tatoos, facial piercings(or even long hair or facial hair), some dont understand, think its mutilation or whatever. I dont think hip hop is a gang culture but some do and THAT will cost the NBA money no matter how you slice it. With these athletes making a larger percentage of the NBA's pie than ever, the league cant afford them to be a revenue liability in any major market sector by "customizing" to one. These players are businessmen, like it or not, they should be ambassadors to the game to ALL the fan base.

Its just an opinion, but I have discussed it with a friend who is the world wide marketing director for a 100 billion dollar company, take it as you will. That company woudnt use the NBA to advertize or entertain clients, period. they do mainly baseball and football.

Im not going to even bother with the overdone duscussion on the officiating, forget it. Its been beat to death long before you came on board.

 

[ambchang_]

I don't get it, on one hand you are arguing that the NBA needs to adapt to future generations, on the other hand you are saying that the NBA is looking into serving the current corporate America.

But I am saying in the long term, hiphop culture can help draw attendance just fine with the current group of young audience embracing the hip hop culture (ie, big spenders in 10 to 15 years), while the current attendance, apparel sales and TV ratings support that.

Out of my memory, and I have no way of substantiating anything. Game 3 was called in favour of the Spurs, end of 4 and most of Game 5 in favour of the Suns, 1, 2 and 6 were pretty much even. I can't see any way the Spurs have benefitted in the series through officiating, perhaps you can site some specific examples.

As for the suspension, it's pretty clear cut by now, you leave the bench in an altercation, you are going to be suspended. It has been that way for like 15 years, and the league has enforced it every single time, I just don't get why people are looking for an exception in that case. BTW, Horry was suspended for 2 games, pretty much the longest suspension ever for a hip check.

 

[nowagimp]

I don't get it, on one hand you are arguing that the NBA needs to adapt to future generations, on the other hand you are saying that the NBA is looking into serving the current corporate America.

But I am saying in the long term, hiphop culture can help draw attendance just fine with the current group of young audience embracing the hip hop culture (ie, big spenders in 10 to 15 years), while the current attendance, apparel sales and TV ratings support that.

Out of my memory, and I have no way of substantiating anything. Game 3 was called in favour of the Spurs, end of 4 and most of Game 5 in favour of the Suns, 1, 2 and 6 were pretty much even. I can't see any way the Spurs have benefitted in the series through officiating, perhaps you can site some specific examples.

You dont get it alright, packaging music culture with sport narrows the audience, not a good business decision. No other major sport does it, it will not keep the widest audience base. Music culture is about generations, specific groups it comes and goes in popularity: disco, punk, rap, classic rock, heavy metal, etc, its all about sections of society and different generations. Each generation WANTS to be different and creates its own culture. The best business approach will appeal to the oldest and youngest. In 15 years, hip/hop will likely be out of vogue, something else will be "in". The idea is not to tie the sport to some generational aspect of american culture. Heck when the chinese market is realized they will likely have their own culture, not co opt american hip hop. Seems like every generation thinks their culture will last forever, but it is always rejected by the next generation. I cant make it any more clear than that.

 

[ambchang_]

I am not saying that they should package the two together, but the music and movie industry indicates that the demographic IS open to that culture, and is willing to spend big money on it year after year.
The NBA shouldn't cater the league specifically TO the hip hop culture, but a worse decision is to methodically eliminate that market. In fact, an older generation is not averse to the hip hop culture, as it has been embraced elsewhere.
The idea you originally proposed was that the NBA is trying to disassociate itself from the hiphop culture because of the perceived negative image, and I disagree, citing the general population's embrace of that culture in other media.