Rod Graves

[40yearfan]

If by "something up their sleeves" you mean that they were too preoccupied with Fitz. How can we possibly delusional enough to believe this. RG even said that we would be looking early in the draft to address speed at the RB position. Whiz said it all offeason. RG has never shown himself adept at multi-tasking, this is a fact.

The team should have pursed Mwelde Moore, but instead gambled on a RB falling to them in a favorable position. It didn't happen, so in the 5th they reached for Hightower and have been praying ever since IMO.

btw-- I am praying with them.

Apparently the staff either felt there were other more pressing needs or that the had the situation covered and no more personnel were needed. I prefer to think it was the latter and we are in for an unexpected surprise in regards to the RB position.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Apparently the staff either felt there were other more pressing needs or that the had the situation covered and no more personnel were needed. I prefer to think it was the latter and we are in for an unexpected surprise in regards to the RB position.

I prefer to think that as well.

 

[Russ Smith]

If by "something up their sleeves" you mean that they were too preoccupied with Fitz then I agree. How can we possibly delusional enough to believe this? I dont think the RB position is in as bad of shape as most, but I doubt the team addressed the position like they wanted to going into the offseason.

RG even said that we would be looking early in the draft to address speed at the RB position. Whiz said it all offeason. RG has never shown himself adept at multi-tasking, this is a fact.

The team should have pursed Mwelde Moore, but instead gambled on a RB falling to them in a favorable position. It didn't happen, so in the 5th they reached for Hightower and have been praying ever since IMO.

btw-- I am praying with them.

you guys are all going to look so silly when JJ goes for 2,000 yards this year!




OK even I have reached the point where I no longer think JJ is going to become a good NFL rb so I can't even pretend to think the Cards ignored RB because they were so high on JJ.

and like everyone else I'm baffled why we still have Shipp at that salary.

 

[joeshmo]

Apparently the staff either felt there were other more pressing needs or that the had the situation covered and no more personnel were needed. I prefer to think it was the latter and we are in for an unexpected surprise in regards to the RB position.

Graves and his staff would still like speed at the RB spot. Just a week ago when asked about maybe bringing in the recently cut Chris Henry of the Broncos Graves stated, Henry isnt a speed back he would just be another type of RB that we already have. Tells me they may be fine with what they have but they do know they need more speed at RB.

 

[Mitch]

Graves and his staff would still like speed at the RB spot. Just a week ago when asked about maybe bringing in the recently cut Chris Henry of the Broncos Graves stated, Henry isnt a speed back he would just be another type of RB that we already have. Tells me they may be fine with what they have but they do know they need more speed at RB.

Joe, you mean Mike Bell, right?

 

[40yearfan]

Graves and his staff would still like speed at the RB spot. Just a week ago when asked about maybe bringing in the recently cut Chris Henry of the Broncos Graves stated, Henry isnt a speed back he would just be another type of RB that we already have. Tells me they may be fine with what they have but they do know they need more speed at RB.

That's a given. I was hoping against hope that we'd get a chance at Felix Jones with our second rounder, but he was long gone. I do believe that if the Cards brain trust had felt our RB situation was serious enough, they would have addressed it in the first round. We went defense instead and I think that was because they felt they could get by with what we had at RB, but desperately needed some real depth at CB.

 

[DaisyCutter]

So let's see if we've got this straight. If the Cards have a winning season this year, all the credit will go to RG and none to Whis and his staff? If you plan on putting all the blame on RG for roster personnel, not anticipating injuries and not getting additional RB's, it stands to reason that he should get all the credit when we win. Right?

If the Cards win this year, there'll be praise for everyone. I didn't say that the only problem last year was that there wasn't enough depth.

If all the starters remain healthy, and all the players perform, and the on-field decisions are good, then everyone will deservingly be praised.

If starters are hurt, and the depth steps in and picks up the slack (particularly Haggans and LaBoy), than Graves will deserve even more praise.

If the starters are hurt (especially at OL & RB), but the coaching staff is able to adjust to that problem, the coaching staff will deserve more praise, but Graves will still earn his.

Graves gets credit for (1) choosing the coach (probably) and (2) building the roster (without question). When those things work out positively, he deserves all the credit. If either of those things fail, then at least some responsibility remains on his doorstep.

Of course, everyone agrees that managing the salary cap and player contracts is Graves responsibility. You and nidan don't even want to criticize him for when that goes poorly. So I'm going to guess that you can't be held to the same standard if things go poorly overall.

 

[Duckjake]

When there is real excitement for a Cards home game because of what's at stake rather than the popularity of the opponent then I'll give Graves & Co. some real credit. Until then no.

A battle of division leaders Dec 14th vs the Vikings or a "winner takes the division" game against Seattle the 28th is what I'm talking about.

 

[40yearfan]

If the Cards win this year, there'll be praise for everyone. I didn't say that the only problem last year was that there wasn't enough depth.

If all the starters remain healthy, and all the players perform, and the on-field decisions are good, then everyone will deservingly be praised.

If starters are hurt, and the depth steps in and picks up the slack (particularly Haggans and LaBoy), than Graves will deserve even more praise.

If the starters are hurt (especially at OL & RB), but the coaching staff is able to adjust to that problem, the coaching staff will deserve more praise, but Graves will still earn his.

Graves gets credit for (1) choosing the coach (probably) and (2) building the roster (without question). When those things work out positively, he deserves all the credit. If either of those things fail, then at least some responsibility remains on his doorstep.

Of course, everyone agrees that managing the salary cap and player contracts is Graves responsibility. You and nidan don't even want to criticize him for when that goes poorly. So I'm going to guess that you can't be held to the same standard if things go poorly overall.

Nu uh. You are the one pinning all of the blame on RG for the non-winning record. Reread your posts. Using your standards, if he gets all the blame, he should therefore get all the credit.

A football team takes all participants going in the same direction to make it successful. Until RG got involved, that was not happening with this team. You may argue that it took too long or wrong decisions were made, but you can't overlook the fact that this team has progressed since he's been here and the outlook today is much brighter that it was before he came here. If this team has a winning record this year, RG will have performed a major miracle. No one has been able to do that since the Coryelle years (other than one year).

You want to put RG in the bottom 3 of GM's in the NFL and I disagree with you. He should be given a medal for the trauma he has had to go through to get to this point. Most Cards GM's before him just gave up and waited to be fired. He's had the fortitude to work through all of the obstacles and put this team in a position to win in spite of the handicaps that were thrust on him.

As a long time Cards fan, I appreciate what he has done and will rise to his defense as I often have. He may not be perfect, but he certainly rates higher than #30 on the GM scale.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Blah, blah, blah, 40. Graves gets a lot of demerits because he's the one constant in the past 7 years of being terrible, and his name is at the top of the letterhead. Apparently, you don't think he has responsibility for anything.

And I don't blame the Bidwill's for anything. I don't accuse them of being cheap, and I don't accuse them of not being interested in winning. You'll never hear those words come out of my mouth.

If you think Graves rates higher than 30 among his colleagues, I'd love to hear the 5+ GMs that are better than him. I submitted Millen. Russ submitted Al Davis (which I think is close; the Raiders were in the Super Bowl 5 years or so ago). Who else has the long track record of on-field failure that Rod Graves has managed to put together?

You say that this team is better than before Rod Graves came on board, but that's demonstrably false. The six seasons before Graves was made VP of Football Operations after the 2002 season, the Cards were 36-60 (Not counting 1-1 in playoff games). In the six seasons after Rod Graves took control of the operation, the Cards have been 33-63.

If you can locate a general manager that worked 7 seasons in the NFL putting up a .343 winning percentage that isn't Matt Millen, I'd love to get his name. The years from 2002 until 2007 was the worst five-year stretch the Cards had performed since the Cards moved to Arizona.

I'm not really interested in talking about the past. There's too much to look forward to. Where do you think that Graves deserves criticism for his past performance? More importantly: What results to you need to see on the field this season that would inspire you to provide criticism of the front office?

 

[40yearfan]

Blah, blah, blah, 40. Graves gets a lot of demerits because he's the one constant in the past 7 years of being terrible, and his name is at the top of the letterhead. Apparently, you don't think he has responsibility for anything.

And I don't blame the Bidwill's for anything. I don't accuse them of being cheap, and I don't accuse them of not being interested in winning. You'll never hear those words come out of my mouth.

If you think Graves rates higher than 30 among his colleagues, I'd love to hear the 5+ GMs that are better than him. I submitted Millen. Russ submitted Al Davis (which I think is close; the Raiders were in the Super Bowl 5 years or so ago). Who else has the long track record of on-field failure that Rod Graves has managed to put together?

You say that this team is better than before Rod Graves came on board, but that's demonstrably false. The six seasons before Graves was made VP of Football Operations after the 2002 season, the Cards were 36-60 (Not counting 1-1 in playoff games). In the six seasons after Rod Graves took control of the operation, the Cards have been 33-63.

If you can locate a general manager that worked 7 seasons in the NFL putting up a .343 winning percentage that isn't Matt Millen, I'd love to get his name. The years from 2002 until 2007 was the worst five-year stretch the Cards had performed since the Cards moved to Arizona.

I'm not really interested in talking about the past. There's too much to look forward to. Where do you think that Graves deserves criticism for his past performance? More importantly: What results to you need to see on the field this season that would inspire you to provide criticism of the front office?

Of course you don't want to talk about the past because it blows holes in your whole argument. In the first place, RG has only been in charge since the Denny Green era started which was 5 years ago, not 7. Regardless of what his title was or is, his decision making was severely limited until DG came to town and even during that period, he was only one voice among many.

If you knew the Cards organization the way I do, you'd realize just what he was facing when he started as GM. The Cards had few dollars to work with, a complete lack of talent and an owner who was used to running things his way and was still doing the same things he had decades ago. RG was probably the only guy they could get to take that job as it had become a graveyard for every GM or head coach the Cards had had in the past 30 years and they had had a pile of them. With all of these things working against him, he managed to get things to change, slowly at first, but the changes did come.

In spite of the obstacles he had to face, he managed to get some decent players in here, extend his core group and get a real head coach who in turn hired a real NFL coaching staff. These things take time, especially when you are limited financially. Maybe this hasn't gone as quickly as you would like, but it is being done and we should realize the fruits of his effort this year.

How many current GM's do you think would even have gone to work for the Cards 5 years ago? RG has done something I've waited for for the past 3 decades. Given us real hope and a legitimate chance of being one of the premier NFL teams. With a little luck and a few breaks, this team could really be something special. Thank you RG. Thanks for all your hard work, going about you job, taking all the critisizm, never complaining and never taking you eye off of the final goal.

So you can complain about him all you want. It's your perogative. I prefer to look at his accomplishments and where this team is compared to where it was when he started.

 

[CardinalLaw]

I wish Graves would get canned. He is so old fashioned footballwise. He is never the first to get anything done. Everything is last minute to him, We never have our 1st rounders signed before camp. All the recent deals that got done midseason, are right before the deadline I can remember. He pisses me off. Be a freaking GM for godsakes. This Boldin thing should have never happened. If Boldin was promised a deal he should have one. I listen to Sirius NFL alot, pk was just talking today about how advanced great GM's are. Patriots bring in FA's to tell them they want to sign them next year. They have things figured years in advance. Graves just doesn't seam to have a clue.

Oh yeah screw Warner to. If he refuses to sign an extention he should automaticly be number #2 no matter how great his camp is. Cause screw him he'll be gone next year. We probaly not winning the Super Bowl this year, anyway. Atleast Lienart will develope.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Well the Cardinals are old-fashion.

Graves AND the Bidwills are old school. They are the last of the family owned clubs. Thus the problems they run into going up against the multi-millionaire counter parts.

If you are going to fire Graves, you better send the Bidwills packing as well since nothing is going to change unless they are all shipped out.

It is frustrating to see this offseason go by with little done for the guys who played in 2007.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Well the Cardinals are old-fashion.

Graves AND the Bidwills are old school. They are the last of the family owned clubs. Thus the problems they run into going up against the multi-millionaire counter parts.

If you are going to fire Graves, you better send the Bidwills packing as well since nothing is going to change unless they are all shipped out.

It is frustrating to see this offseason go by with little done for the guys who played in 2007.

now you're talking

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Well the Cardinals are old-fashion.

Graves AND the Bidwills are old school. They are the last of the family owned clubs. Thus the problems they run into going up against the multi-millionaire counter parts.

If you are going to fire Graves, you better send the Bidwills packing as well since nothing is going to change unless they are all shipped out.

It is frustrating to see this offseason go by with little done for the guys who played in 2007.

you don't think the Bidwill's are big business,multi-millionaires? That's baloney. They would like you to think that and use it as a cop out excuse but, with the new stadium, they have no excuses except more concern with the bottom line than the W-L record.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

now you're talking

Well, duh.

I mean the situation is what it is.

If you are going to be a Cardinal fan you better damn well know you a rooting for a team whose front office doesn't have the abilities of a Jerry Jones, or Dan Snyder.

They just don't have that kind of money to throw around. Thus why when you say I am a Graves lover, I say you are crazy. Graves is stuck with the situation he is in, by having to be VERY careful where the money concerning this organization.

Now that being said I must say I have become frustrated with the current situation of this offseason. He has a line of guys with complaints/deserve some raises, and he should at least use some of the cap money for this year to deal with some of those problems now, in order not to be hand cuffed in the future. If you are a strapped for cash, and are in a use it or lose it situation, like the cap money from year to year, then you frickin' use it. If you don't you are being less than efficient with the funds.

Now you can make a case that Pittsburg has been able to do this. But they have been winning for so long that they too have more money then your average family owned team, AND futher more, even with thier success the team might not be family owned for too much longer.

The only other team in our boat is the Buffalo Bills, who seem to struggle with the same issues we do.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

you don't think the Bidwill's are big business,multi-millionaires? That's baloney. They would like you to think that and use it as a cop out excuse but, with the new stadium, they have no excuses except more concern with the bottom line than the W-L record.

They don't have the money Jerry Jones, and Dan Snyder have, and that is a fact. They don't have the backing of multi-BILLION dollar companies at their back.

If they do have that kind of money, and are not shelling the money out to players that have shown the skills to deserve that kind of money then they are being cheap or stupid, or both.

I am sorry you cannot convince me that Boldin, Wilson, and Dansby are not good enough to warrant pay raises.

When Ken frickin' Hamlin is getting a raise and those players are not then how can you blame our players for not getting frustrated.

That is the natural way of things.

So if there is no money excuse, then there is nothing more to say then that Graves and company dropped the ball this offseason in at least taking some of the issues they have on this team.

I know this is the NFL, and that you are going to lose players, but you can't set yourself up to lose ALL your good players. Then we are back to the early 2000's with so many holes on the team that a pee wee football team could beat us, and going back to that kind of W-L situation is doing the opposite of what needs to be done. Plus those L's were some of the worst EVERY. 40 something to six against a bad Browns team.....I'll never forget that.

 

[BigRedArk]

BRA, I don't believe the coaching staff thinks we have a problem at RB. They must have something up their sleeve that they didn't even look at any of the FA RB's.

I am truly anxious to see what transpires in the first pre-season game to see if they unveil something unexpected in that department.

Hope you're right 40.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Well, duh.

I mean the situation is what it is.

If you are going to be a Cardinal fan you better damn well know you a rooting for a team whose front office doesn't have the abilities of a Jerry Jones, or Dan Snyder.

They just don't have that kind of money to throw around. Thus why when you say I am a Graves lover, I say you are crazy. Graves is stuck with the situation he is in, by having to be VERY careful where the money concerning this organization.

Now that being said I must say I have become frustrated with the current situation of this offseason. He has a line of guys with complaints/deserve some raises, and he should at least use some of the cap money for this year to deal with some of those problems now, in order not to be hand cuffed in the future. If you are a strapped for cash, and are in a use it or lose it situation, like the cap money from year to year, then you frickin' use it. If you don't you are being less than efficient with the funds.

Now you can make a case that Pittsburg has been able to do this. But they have been winning for so long that they too have more money then your average family owned team, AND futher more, even with thier success the team might not be family owned for too much longer.

The only other team in our boat is the Buffalo Bills, who seem to struggle with the same issues we do.

I dont want to hear them whine about money. Excuses excuses. Once you have some it is very easy to make more. If they are too lazy to do anything other than sink this franchise deeper into the dump then they need to get rid of the team and stop embarrassing themselves, their fans and Arizona.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I can accept Boldin's beef to a large degree, but I simply cannot agree with Docketts demand after only ONE season on his new contract... Grave could've locked up Dansby for cheaper by signing him before last season IMO... He is a procrastonator IMO and it leads to these issues...

On the flip side though, The cards simply do not have the cap space to make everyone happy.

What are the odds that by next season Dansby, Dockett, and Boldin are all playing in new unis? Sacry thought...

 

[Duckjake]

You may argue that it took too long or wrong decisions were made, but you can't overlook the fact that this team has progressed since he's been here and the outlook today is much brighter that it was before he came here.

Not really. In fact I think we're getting ready to see yet another promising group self-destruct.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I dont want to hear them whine about money. Excuses excuses. Once you have some it is very easy to make more. If they are too lazy to do anything other than sink this franchise deeper into the dump then they need to get rid of the team and stop embarrassing themselves, their fans and Arizona.

Then I don't know what to tell you.

This is the way it has been with this organization for 80 something years, and the Bidwills & company are yet to be embarrassed about the fact they are the laughing stock of the NFL.

So don't hold you breath. I stopped doing because as much as I would LOVE to see the team go under new owners, and management I can't see it happening.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

They don't have the money Jerry Jones, and Dan Snyder have, and that is a fact. They don't have the backing of multi-BILLION dollar companies at their back.

If they do have that kind of money, and are not shelling the money out to players that have shown the skills to deserve that kind of money then they are being cheap or stupid, or both.

I am sorry you cannot convince me that Boldin, Wilson, and Dansby are not good enough to warrant pay raises.

When Ken frickin' Hamlin is getting a raise and those players are not then how can you blame our players for not getting frustrated.

That is the natural way of things.

So if there is no money excuse, then there is nothing more to say then that Graves and company dropped the ball this offseason in at least taking some of the issues they have on this team.

I know this is the NFL, and that you are going to lose players, but you can't set yourself up to lose ALL your good players. Then we are back to the early 2000's with so many holes on the team that a pee wee football team could beat us, and going back to that kind of W-L situation is doing the opposite of what needs to be done. Plus those L's were some of the worst EVERY. 40 something to six against a bad Browns team.....I'll never forget that.

i agree the Cards probably don't have their kind of money but they have plenty to function in the NFL if they choose to.