Remaining Free Agents - Who You Want?

[gmabel830]

Ioannidis is available for the same reason all of these names are available - they aren't that good.

There are still some good players out there - they just might want more money than they are worth at this stage of their careers.

 

[TheCardFan]

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[ASUCHRIS]

There are still some good players out there - they just might want more money than they are worth at this stage of their careers.

Care to guess the hit rate on post draft free agents and their success rate? My guess is that it's not very high.

 

[Adrian]

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[Krangodnzr]

Don't care about pass rush win rate. Seems like a stat as made up as the 99.9% probability that Will Levis gets drafted in the first round.

Okay....

A stat you don't like because it often refutes points you make and yet pretty much every NFL stat junkie uses them. The NFL literally tracks this data through the use of technology, so I don't know why you fail to accept it.

I guess part of it is that if he's as good as Zach Allen, why did Zach Allen get a deal with Denver that many people here think he can't live up to, and Ioannidis is looking for his second consecutive one-year deal?

The NFL isn't always so cut and dry.

Also, Ioanidis had good sack numbers as a part-time player in years 2-4 of his contract, and has completely disappeared since then. He failed to develop as an interior player. Ioannidis has 5 sacks over the past three seasons (19 total starts). Zach Allen has 11.5 sacks over the past three seasons (34 starts).

Because he was playing behind Daron Payne and Jonathan Allen, two players that would have parked Zach Allen on the bench. It's funny watching you throw out numbers without any context to try and make a point. Maybe if Ioannidis starts 34 times he gets 11.5 sacks too? That wouldn't be a completely unreasonable view based on the rest of his career.

I mean, I don't really understand why you'd want to include Ioannidis's past four seasons when he's clearly been on a decline over the past three unless you were trying to really distort the record of who this guy is in 2023.

Clearly on the decline...or clearly playing behind Pro Bowl players...

The last time he was a full-time starter in 2019, he posted pretty much DOUBLE the numbers of Zach Allen's best season.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The last time he was a full-time starter in 2019, he posted pretty much DOUBLE the numbers of Zach Allen's best season.

2019? That's getting to be an awful long time ago. Maybe that's why Allen was paid, and Ioannidis is like you and me, sitting by the phone and waiting for the call?

 

[kerouac9]

Care to guess the hit rate on post draft free agents and their success rate? My guess is that it's not very high.

Define "hit". I think that you'll find a lot of Kelvin Beachum types that can give you a C+ season if not a little more.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Define "hit". I think that you'll find a lot of Kelvin Beachum types that can give you a C+ season if not a little more.

Sure - it's the island of misfit toys. Players that can fill a role or hold down a spot temporarily.

 

[kerouac9]

Okay....

A stat you don't like because it often refutes points you make and yet pretty much every NFL stat junkie uses them. The NFL literally tracks this data through the use of technology, so I don't know why you fail to accept it.

The NFL isn't always so cut and dry.

Because he was playing behind Daron Payne and Jonathan Allen, two players that would have parked Zach Allen on the bench. It's funny watching you throw out numbers without any context to try and make a point. Maybe if Ioannidis starts 34 times he gets 11.5 sacks too? That wouldn't be a completely unreasonable view based on the rest of his career.

Clearly on the decline...or clearly playing behind Pro Bowl players...

The last time he was a full-time starter in 2019, he posted pretty much DOUBLE the numbers of Zach Allen's best season.

I don't respond to Pass Rush Win Rate because it's not a real stat. It's invented by ESPN, the same people with the fake Will Levis "metric" that I provided. If you like it, that's good for you. I don't look at it one way or another.

Well, I mean it's cut and dry enough that someone has a job or they don't. This guy is a legitimate NFL player, but there's nothing objective besides your made-up stat that says he's Actually Better than Zach Allen today.

 

[gmabel830]

Care to guess the hit rate on post draft free agents and their success rate? My guess is that it's not very high.

No idea on hit rate - I'd be shocked if anyone tracked a stat like that. The majority of the top free agents still available are late 20s/early 30s in age. https://nfltraderumors.co/top-100-2023-nfl-free-agents-list/

Some names that have been productive on the list (e.g., Floyd, Clowney, Frank Clark, Shaq Griffin, Marcus Peters, Ngakoue), but a lot of those guys have gotten big money contracts in the past and might not want to put their bodies through another season on a 1 year deal with no to little guaranteed money. I don't think it's an issue of whether these guys can still help a team and offer more than guys currently on their roster can, it's more a matter of a misalignment on the financial worth of these players at this stage of their careers.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't respond to Pass Rush Win Rate because it's not a real stat. It's invented by ESPN, the same people with the fake Will Levis "metric" that I provided. If you like it, that's good for you. I don't look at it one way or another.

Again you can say it's made up, but it's not. It's actually tracked through technology.

Well, I mean it's cut and dry enough that someone has a job or they don't. This guy is a legitimate NFL player, but there's nothing objective besides your made-up stat that says he's Actually Better than Zach Allen today.

"My" made up stat. I just made it up. This is getting hilarious. Thanks for giving me credit for installing player tracking devices and tracking all this data!

That is how ridiculous your argument sounds.

 

[PDXChris]

The reality is, these guys left have warts. Whether it be age, inconsistency, lack of experience or lack of production. The good news is, we aren't going to be good this year and we are trying to plug a few holes and maybe find a diamond in the rough. We have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds next year draft to upgrade these positions and possibly a few more in 25 is Monti plays it right. I just want a few guys to help us have enjoyable games to watch and momentum going into 24.

 

[kerouac9]

Again you can say it's made up, but it's not. It's actually tracked through technology.

"My" made up stat. I just made it up. This is getting hilarious. Thanks for giving me credit for installing player tracking devices and tracking all this data!

That is how ridiculous your argument sounds.

Dude. Chill out.

It is made up. Explain to me the relevance of the data as they're processing it. Why should I care about it? You've already had to backtrack that this is an NFL stat when it's a proprietary ESPN stat. It's okay to say that it's another tool that's probably unreliable like PFF grades. It's fine if my data filter is finer than yours.

Again, all available data aside from the made-up pass rush win rate suggests that the NFL considers Zach Allen a far superior player than Matt Ioannidis. He can be a valuable contributor to the 2023 Arizona Cardinals and still not be better than Zach Allen.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Dude. Chill out.

LOL, I'm fine dude. I'm just reacting to your tone.

It is made up. Explain to me the relevance of the data as they're processing it.

Made up means conjured out of thin air. It's not made up.

Why should I care about it? You've already had to backtrack that this is an NFL stat when it's a proprietary ESPN stat. It's okay to say that it's another tool that's probably unreliable like PFF grades. It's fine if my data filter is finer than yours.

Oh you got me! I mispoke. How is something that is tracked with actual scientific tools "unreliable". I've seen firsthand how unreliable PFF can be, but data gathered from actual tools? LOL

 

[gmabel830]

In addition to having the best first name ever, Ioannidis scores very well on gmabel830's incredi-ratings. So he'd fit in just fine!

 

[Fitz4Ever]

If you have heard of them...they aint signing here this year...in fact we dont even want them.

If it is not blatantly obvious to all by this point that 23 is a "developmental" year where winning is secondary...then I'm not sure what else you need to see.

We are not going to bring in anyone that could play on another team, even rotationally. We will get guys with no other option, and guys that think they can restart a career with a good year in AZ playing garbage minutes.

Im fine with this. Its how it should be done. We just have to suffer through 1 more year, and then we might actually have a decent future ahead of us.

 

[kerouac9]

LOL, I'm fine dude. I'm just reacting to your tone.

Made up means conjured out of thin air. It's not made up.

Oh you got me! I mispoke. How is something that is tracked with actual scientific tools "unreliable". I've seen firsthand how unreliable PFF can be, but data gathered from actual tools? LOL

It's the assumptions underlying the analysis that can be unreliable or off-base. I don't accept the assumptions that ESPN puts into that analysis. You do. It's fine.

The data is the data; the interpretation of the data here is what is problematic.

If you want an example of why you should look upon Pass Rush Win Rate with a gimlet eye, look at how the 2022 Arizona Cardinals ranked fourth in that metric.

Meanwhile they ranked 24th in sacks, 32nd in completion percentage allowed, 16th in YPA allowed, 31st in completion percentage allowed.

Where is the correlating evidence of a rattled, rushed opposing quarterback?

Want to know who had the seventh-highest pass block win rate among guards in the NFL last season? Will Hernandez!

Want to know who had the eight-highest pass rush win rate among DTs last season? Zach Allen! He was two points worse than Ioannidis. He's going to get off a block once less per game (in a certain amount of time) than Ioannidis.

 

[outcent13]

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This is a big reason why I feel like the Cards and other teams have a few guys lined up already. Too many solid free agents and available cap space league wide unless this is the case.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In addition to having the best first name ever, Ioannidis scores very well on gmabel830's incredi-ratings. So he'd fit in just fine!

How do I score?

On second thought, I withdraw the inquiry. Move along . . . nothing to see here . . . all is well . . .