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BritCard

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I'll admit to not having watched film on him for every single play, so I could see someone on here who likes delving into film more than I do rebuking this thought... but we overdrafted the guy to be a slot CB and probably shouldn't overpay him to be a slot CB for us.

I know he's played a little bit more on the outside later into his young career, but I'm not convinced he deserves a ton of money, sorta in the same way Christian Kirk was pretty good but didn't deserve what he got from Jacksonville.

I'm fine with bringing him back, and would actually like to, but he's more like the kind of player that in years past I'd be looking at and go "he's an intriguing bargain that's young," instead of "surefire top contract guy," and I don't want to get into a bidding war over him.

If someone else wants to pay him $12M per to be their #1 CB, I'll take the comp pick instead.

You're not wrong. He's easily replaceable.

Is anyone here saying "We need to sign Rock Ya-Sin in free agency. He'd be a great CB1"? No they aren't. And they are very similar level players.
 

BritCard

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Did you go to the Steve Keim school of GMing?

There are 50 Byron Murphy's in the NFL. I really don't know what fans are seeing that make them think he's worth paying top CB money. Maybe you can give me an answer other than "We need cornerbacks"?

The whole "Cards shut down #1 wide receivers" thing is pure scheme. Drop CB's deep, drop LB's into coverage so they are bracketed, get gashed underneath and through the middle.

No doubt Keim would have paid him the "Because I drafted you" rate. I'm glad we have a new GM who will assess him objectively.

Donte Jackson got $11.7m last year. DJ Reed $11m. Darious Williams $10m. That's Murphy's ceiling. He's worth $10-$11m max and I feel that's a stupid spend. I think you could replace Murphy's production for $7m max in FA.
 
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Stout

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There are 50 Byron Murphy's in the NFL. I really don't know what fans are seeing that make them think he's worth paying top CB money. Maybe you can give me an answer other than "We need cornerbacks"?

The whole "Cards shut down #1 wide receivers" thing is pure scheme. Drop CB's deep, drop LB's into coverage so they are bracketed, get gashed underneath and through the middle.

No doubt Keim would have paid him the "Because I drafted you" rate. I'm glad we have a new GM who will assess him objectively.

Donte Jackson got $11.7m last year. DJ Reed $11m. Darious Williams $10m. That's Murphy's ceiling. He's worth $10-$11m max and I feel that's a stupid spend. I think you could replace Murphy's production for $7m max in FA.
No one's talking "top CB money." The problem with your hypothesis is that replacing talent on the Card's roster has never been easy. "Oh, just let him go because we can easily replace him." Yeah, you must not be a student of Cards history with that opinion. Give him a decent contract. Not a top contract, but don't lowball him either.

This will be a real litmus test for our new GM.
 

BritCard

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No one's talking "top CB money." The problem with your hypothesis is that replacing talent on the Card's roster has never been easy. "Oh, just let him go because we can easily replace him." Yeah, you must not be a student of Cards history with that opinion. Give him a decent contract. Not a top contract, but don't lowball him either.

This will be a real litmus test for our new GM.

I've seen a number of people here say franchise him ($18.5m) or that he will get top CB money but ok, what do you call a decent contract?

Because one of Keim's issues has been overpaying average players and it needs to stop and as fans we need to stop overvaluing our own guys.
 

cardpa

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SO the one question I have about Allen is did he benefit from having Watt playing along side him for an entire year and is he going to be just as effective without a Watt type player next to him?
 

Stout

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I've seen a number of people here say franchise him ($18.5m) or that he will get top CB money but ok, what do you call a decent contract?

Because one of Keim's issues has been overpaying average players and it needs to stop and as fans we need to stop overvaluing our own guys.
I don't know; I'm not a numbers guy as far as contracts. I'm concerned with numbers on the field/roster. We're already low on talent on D; we don't need to dilute it. Granted 2023 is a wash, but we need to retain our building block players. Murphy is one of those.
 

QuebecCard

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SO the one question I have about Allen is did he benefit from having Watt playing along side him for an entire year and is he going to be just as effective without a Watt type player next to him?

Well, we can make this an ongoing question by signing him and drafting Jalen Carter. ;)
 

slanidrac16

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No one's talking "top CB money." The problem with your hypothesis is that replacing talent on the Card's roster has never been easy. "Oh, just let him go because we can easily replace him." Yeah, you must not be a student of Cards history with that opinion. Give him a decent contract. Not a top contract, but don't lowball him either.

This will be a real litmus test for our new GM.
Again, the biggest problem I have with letting go of what SOME people think is JAG. Murphy has shown flashes and is young. Also this defense had no pass rush at all and when we did it was by the blitz. He’s been moved to Corner , slot and back again.
If this organization is going to bicker over 1-2m a year or have mismanaged their cap where they can’t afford him. THEN TRADE HIM BEFORE THE CONTRACT RUNS OUT.

We simply can’t allow to watch player walk away every year. even if all we get is a 6th round pick. See Hasson Reddick. Sickening.

One more thing. To the people that think he’s not worth it, you follow it up with somebody is going to overpay him? Why do you think this? If he sucks that bad why would anybody overpay? Maybe, just maybe, they see his value a little differently than you do. Maybe they’re right and you’re not.
 

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In regard to my previous statement, Murphy has only really missed games this season. Zach has missed a couple games a year outside of his rookie season where he missed most of the season.
 

slanidrac16

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In regard to my previous statement, Murphy has only really missed games this season. Zach has missed a couple games a year outside of his rookie season where he missed most of the season.
There are a LOT of players that miss games every year. There are a few that seem to be hurt more often and be considered “ injury prone”. I’d put Rondale Moore in this category. Missing a game or two a year is not the end of the world.
 

BritCard

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Again, the biggest problem I have with letting go of what SOME people think is JAG. Murphy has shown flashes and is young. Also this defense had no pass rush at all and when we did it was by the blitz. He’s been moved to Corner , slot and back again.
If this organization is going to bicker over 1-2m a year or have mismanaged their cap where they can’t afford him. THEN TRADE HIM BEFORE THE CONTRACT RUNS OUT.

We simply can’t allow to watch player walk away every year. even if all we get is a 6th round pick. See Hasson Reddick. Sickening.

One more thing. To the people that think he’s not worth it, you follow it up with somebody is going to overpay him? Why do you think this? If he sucks that bad why would anybody overpay? Maybe, just maybe, they see his value a little differently than you do. Maybe they’re right and you’re not.

You know what you pay for young guys with "flashes"? Max $11m.

I don't think anyone will overpay him. I think is he hits FA he gets no more than $10-11m. Like the guys I mentioned last year. But desperate teams overpay every year. FA is littered with bad contracts. Probably more bad than good.
 

slanidrac16

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You know what you pay for young guys with "flashes"? Max $11m.

I don't think anyone will overpay him. I think is he hits FA he gets any more than $10-11m. Like the guys I mentioned last year. But desperate teams overpay every year. FA is littered with bad contracts. Probably more bad than good.
Flashes on this defense means something. We were close to the worse defense in the league. I guess you can say we could get rid of everybody on the defensive side of the ball because it can’t get no worse.
Every time Wr catches a td pass somebody was responsible for it, probably a cb. We are never going to have 2shut down all-pro cornerbacks unless you get REALLY lucky in the draft. Can’t afford to pay 20m each for cb’s.
There’s a reason many believe “somebody” will overpay Murphy. Maybe, just maybe, they see his potential, how they would use him and his value.
The Eagles saw it in Reddick…we didn’t. Who won that evaluation?
 
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Cardsfaninlouky

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I'll admit to not having watched film on him for every single play, so I could see someone on here who likes delving into film more than I do rebuking this thought... but we overdrafted the guy to be a slot CB and probably shouldn't overpay him to be a slot CB for us.

I know he's played a little bit more on the outside later into his young career, but I'm not convinced he deserves a ton of money, sorta in the same way Christian Kirk was pretty good but didn't deserve what he got from Jacksonville.

I'm fine with bringing him back, and would actually like to, but he's more like the kind of player that in years past I'd be looking at and go "he's an intriguing bargain that's young," instead of "surefire top contract guy," and I don't want to get into a bidding war over him.

If someone else wants to pay him $12M per to be their #1 CB, I'll take the comp pick instead.
I never got the hype on him his first year, but he showed flashes here & there. Then he looked pretty good last season & this season before he got hurt. We have what we hope to be a solid GM & asst GM now that are good talent evaluators, I'll trust whatever they decide with Murphy. I'm gonna go out on a limb here & say our roster will look way different next season lol.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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Well, we can make this an ongoing question by signing him and drafting Jalen Carter. ;)
I want Carter over Anderson anyways. DT's that can disrupt a pocket are more valuable than edge rushers imo because edge rushers are more plentiful every year. Thomas & Sanders showed some promise this season, put them with a stud DT & we'll have a DL to work with. Draft Anderson & we still have no decent DT. Lawrence isn't the answer & Fotu damn sure isn't lol.
 

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I'll admit to not having watched film on him for every single play, so I could see someone on here who likes delving into film more than I do rebuking this thought... but we overdrafted the guy to be a slot CB and probably shouldn't overpay him to be a slot CB for us.

I know he's played a little bit more on the outside later into his young career, but I'm not convinced he deserves a ton of money, sorta in the same way Christian Kirk was pretty good but didn't deserve what he got from Jacksonville.

I'm fine with bringing him back, and would actually like to, but he's more like the kind of player that in years past I'd be looking at and go "he's an intriguing bargain that's young," instead of "surefire top contract guy," and I don't want to get into a bidding war over him.

If someone else wants to pay him $12M per to be their #1 CB, I'll take the comp pick instead.
It's so funny how entrenched people can become in their positions.

Murphy was on the outside for most of his snaps last year.
 

Krangodnzr

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I want Carter over Anderson anyways. DT's that can disrupt a pocket are more valuable than edge rushers imo because edge rushers are more plentiful every year. Thomas & Sanders showed some promise this season, put them with a stud DT & we'll have a DL to work with. Draft Anderson & we still have no decent DT. Lawrence isn't the answer & Fotu damn sure isn't lol.
DTs have a really high bust rate and it's just not true that DTs are more valuable that Edge players.

Anderson produced more big plays in half a season than Carter has in his career. Carter is a projection of what we think he can be.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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DTs have a really high bust rate and it's just not true that DTs are more valuable that Edge players.

Anderson produced more big plays in half a season than Carter has in his career. Carter is a projection of what we think he can be.
They have a really high bust rate imo because they're harder to find. A decent one comes along & people overhype them, hence "bust". Carter lifts players with one hand, I'll be totally shocked if he's a bust.
 

BritCard

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Flashes on this defense means something. We were close to the worse defense in the league. I guess you can say we could get rid of everybody on the defensive side of the ball because it can’t get no worse.
Every time Wr catches a td pass somebody was responsible for it, probably a cb. We are never going to have 2shut down all-pro cornerbacks unless you get REALLY lucky in the draft. Can’t afford to pay 20m each for cb’s.
There’s a reason many believe “somebody” will overpay Murphy. Maybe, just maybe, they see his potential, how they would use him and his value.
The Eagles saw it in Reddick…we didn’t. Who won that evaluation?

I'm not sure what the argument is here. Nobody overpaid Darious Williams or DJ Reed last year. Why would Murphy be any different this year? Williams was CB2 on the superbowl winners.

His value, as dictated by similar level CB's in FA is $10-$11m. Maybe a tad more with cap inflation. Why would he get more than that? Why would we pay him more than that? We should overpay him to make sure he stays? Why?
 

slanidrac16

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I'm not sure what the argument is here. Nobody overpaid Darious Williams or DJ Reed last year. Why would Murphy be any different this year? Williams was CB2 on the superbowl winners.

His value, as dictated by similar level CB's in FA is $10-$11m. Maybe a tad more with cap inflation. Why would he get more than that? Why would we pay him more than that? We should overpay him to make sure he stays? Why?
First off many think he will get overpaid. Second salaries are never going to go down so a 10m contract this year might be 11.5m this year.
I’m not writing offMurphy because he might cost us 1m more than what we think his value is. Of course if somebody is going to pay him 16m well then I guess he walks.
That is the problem. Getting nothing in return. That falls on the lack of player evaluation BEFORE the contract expires.
What would it have cost us to extend Murphy before last season started? We’ll never know. Same with Allen. We appeared to evaluate Thompson signing him early.
Seems the last regime chose to way and see. And when said players seems to blossom or appears on the verge to maturing we can’t afford them.
 

BritCard

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First off many think he will get overpaid. Second salaries are never going to go down so a 10m contract this year might be 11.5m this year.
I’m not writing offMurphy because he might cost us 1m more than what we think his value is. Of course if somebody is going to pay him 16m well then I guess he walks.
That is the problem. Getting nothing in return. That falls on the lack of player evaluation BEFORE the contract expires.
What would it have cost us to extend Murphy before last season started? We’ll never know. Same with Allen. We appeared to evaluate Thompson signing him early.
Seems the last regime chose to way and see. And when said players seems to blossom or appears on the verge to maturing we can’t afford them.

We didn't get NOTHING in return. We got 2 seasons of below average CB play, 1 pretty good season and 1 average season. And sure, he can still get better with a different DC. But I'm not paying for hope.

I wouldn't pay Murphy more than 3/35 personally. Allen is the more important one to resign.
 

slanidrac16

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We didn't get NOTHING in return. We got 2 seasons of below average CB play, 1 pretty good season and 1 average season. And sure, he can still get better with a different DC. But I'm not paying for hope.

I wouldn't pay Murphy more than 3/35 personally. Allen is the more important one to resign.
Okay. Fair enough. I think 3/35 is in the ball park. Personally I want both those guys.
It can be done.
 

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