Pac-10 expansion will get earnest consideration

[devilalum]

Imagine if UNLV came in with bid sponsored by Las Vegas casinos promising to throw money and perqs at the conference if UNLV joins and allows Vegas to host the Pac-10 football championship and the basketball conference tourney.

That would be hard to turn down.

You need a stadium like UOP for the conf football title game.

 

[Gaddabout]

You need a stadium like UOP for the conf football title game.

If the Pac-10 committed for 2012, I promise you Vegas could find the money to build one.

 

[DWKB]

It doesn't really matter. The fact they exist in the No. 16 market is all the Pac-10 needs to get more revenue. Colorado/USC, Colorado/UCLA ... those games are going to be a draw in that market, and that's what they're selling.

I don't follow, the market is only as good as the ratings and the ratings are only as good as the interest in the product. Sports are a regional product and if the region doesn't care about the product it's rather worthless, regardless of the size of the area.

If Denver really has as much revenue pull for CU sports as you're claiming, then CU would have a lot more power in the Big 12 than it does. Instead, it's 3rd to last in revenue above ISU (Ames population ~50k, shares state with Iowa) and Baylor (Waco population ~113k and no state market).

 

[82CardsGrad]

If Denver really has as much revenue pull for CU sports as you're claiming, then CU would have a lot more power in the Big 12 than it does. Instead, it's 3rd to last in revenue above ISU (Ames population ~50k, shares state with Iowa) and Baylor (Waco population ~113k and no state market).

That's because CU is playing ISU and Baylor... Why would anyone watch those games??
As Gadd mentioned above, CU vs USC, or CU vs UCLA will be much more able to tap into the potential that comes from a #16 media market.

 

[DWKB]

That's because CU is playing ISU and Baylor... Why would anyone watch those games??
As Gadd mentioned above, CU vs USC, or CU vs UCLA will be much more able to tap into the potential that comes from a #16 media market.

Really?

 

[Gaddabout]

I don't follow, the market is only as good as the ratings and the ratings are only as good as the interest in the product. Sports are a regional product and if the region doesn't care about the product it's rather worthless, regardless of the size of the area.

If Denver really has as much revenue pull for CU sports as you're claiming, then CU would have a lot more power in the Big 12 than it does. Instead, it's 3rd to last in revenue above ISU (Ames population ~50k, shares state with Iowa) and Baylor (Waco population ~113k and no state market).

Don't know what kind of pull CU would need in the Big 12, but again, it's not about CU in that market. It's about getting LA games in that market. USC and UCLA are big draws wherever they play, but right now Denver gets the Big 12 regional games.

 

[DWKB]

Don't know what kind of pull CU would need in the Big 12, but again, it's not about CU in that market. It's about getting LA games in that market. USC and UCLA are big draws wherever they play, but right now Denver gets the Big 12 regional games.

If people don't tune in to watch CU/UT or CU/KU then why would they tune in to see CU/USC or CU/UCLA? I would make a bet that there are more KU fans/alumni in the Denver area than either USC or UCLA.

 

[devilalum]

The Pac has to expand to 12. They're just losing too much money missing out on the whole Conference Championship thing. Why are they so far behind the rest of the conferences in the process?

 

[Gaddabout]

If people don't tune in to watch CU/UT or CU/KU then why would they tune in to see CU/USC or CU/UCLA? I would make a bet that there are more KU fans/alumni in the Denver area than either USC or UCLA.

All the ABC execs will see is eight Top 30 markets for one conference, with a championship game now on the line. They will ante up to keep the Pac-10 from walking to Fox or (their doomsday scenario) NBC. They can't afford to let them go. Denver market gives the Pac-10 one more big chip to play. It locks up the entire western television market for them.

I just had this conversation with an NBC exec. They are paying attention to what the Pac-10 does and Denver market only makes the Pac-10's position stronger.

 

[DWKB]

All the ABC execs will see is eight Top 30 markets for one conference, with a championship game now on the line. They will ante up to keep the Pac-10 from walking to Fox or (their doomsday scenario) NBC. They can't afford to let them go. Denver market gives the Pac-10 one more big chip to play. It locks up the entire western television market for them.

I just had this conversation with an NBC exec. They are paying attention to what the Pac-10 does and Denver market only makes the Pac-10's position stronger.

Yet the SEC has 1 market in the top 30. Their TV package must suck

I don't understand the argument.

 

[Gaddabout]

Yet the SEC has 1 market in the top 30. Their TV package must suck

I don't understand the argument.

The SEC sells itself nationally. The Pac-10 wouldn't already have such a large national package with ABC if it weren't for the size of the markets.

Period.

If it went based on ratings, the Pac-10 would be the Mountain West. Other than when USC is on TV.

 

[DWKB]

The SEC sells itself nationally. The Pac-10 wouldn't already have such a large national package with ABC if it weren't for the size of the markets.

Period.

If it went based on ratings, the Pac-10 would be the Mountain West. Other than when USC is on TV.

Sounds like a last ditch effort of a dying conference.

 

[Gaddabout]

Sounds like a last ditch effort of a dying conference.

It may very well be. But it won't be any time soon.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yet the SEC has 1 market in the top 30. Their TV package must suck

I don't understand the argument.

Isn't this apples and oranges?? The SEC doesn't need schools in the Top 30 markets nearly as much as does the Pac-10. SEC football has been an American institution for decades. With the exception of schools like Kentucky and South Carolina (though with Spurrier that has certainly changed), TV loves carrying any SEC matchup! The same can't be said about the Pac-10, or any other conference for that matter...

 

[82CardsGrad]

It may very well be. But it won't be any time soon.

Guess it depends upon how you define "dying"... And why would the Pac-10 be "dying" any more or any less than any other non-SEC conference?? What about the ACC? Big East? Big 12? Why would the Pac-10 be in worse shape than any of those conferences now or at some point down the road??

 

[Dback Jon]

Isn't this apples and oranges?? The SEC doesn't need schools in the Top 30 markets nearly as much as does the Pac-10. SEC football has been an American institution for decades. With the exception of schools like Kentucky and South Carolina (though with Spurrier that has certainly changed), TV loves carrying any SEC matchup! The same can't be said about the Pac-10, or any other conference for that matter...

In addition, SEC schools rule whole states

SEC has:
Atlanta #8
Tampa-St Pete #14
Miami #17
Orlando #19
Nashville #29
B-ham #40

All of Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas
Most of Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida

 

[82CardsGrad]

In addition, SEC schools rule whole states

SEC has:
Atlanta #8
Tampa-St Pete #14
Miami #17
Orlando #19
Nashville #29
B-ham #40

All of Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas
Most of Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida

Yup... good points Jon.

 

[DWKB]

Guess it depends upon how you define "dying"... And why would the Pac-10 be "dying" any more or any less than any other non-SEC conference?? What about the ACC? Big East? Big 12? Why would the Pac-10 be in worse shape than any of those conferences now or at some point down the road??

1. Big Ten: $154.2 million
2. ACC: $137.6 million
3. SEC: $135 million
4. Big 12: $103.1 million
5. Pac-10: $80.1 million
6. Big East: $77.6 million

One reason why. The Big East is a bastardized conference with 16 basketball teams and only 8 football teams.

 

[DWKB]

In addition, SEC schools rule whole states

Why is this, John? Probably because there is a serious lack of professional sports to follow in their place. Not too much of a problem in Denver, which was a point I made 7 posts ago.

SEC has:
Atlanta #8 Yes
Tampa-St Pete #14 Considered Big East with South Florida, could have Florida St as well
Miami #17 Hurricanes, ACC
Orlando #19 UCF and Florida St as well
Nashville #29
B-ham #40

All of Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas
Most of Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida

 

[HooverDam]

You need a stadium like UOP for the conf football title game.

I doubt it, Pac 10 fans don't historically travel super well, you could just upgrade/expand Sam Boyd a bit and probably be fine.

Its not like Staples is jammed packed for the Pac 10 tournament/championship in hoops, and while the draw of Vegas (a draw Ill never understand, that town is a toilet) and football will of course mean bigger crowds, I dont know if they need a 70K stadium or whatever.

 

[DWKB]

Isn't this apples and oranges?? The SEC doesn't need schools in the Top 30 markets nearly as much as does the Pac-10. SEC football has been an American institution for decades. With the exception of schools like Kentucky and South Carolina (though with Spurrier that has certainly changed), TV loves carrying any SEC matchup! The same can't be said about the Pac-10, or any other conference for that matter...

It's apples to oranges because TV there is context, which is why I can't see the argument that "a TV market is a TV market". Unless there is some data that shows that Denver is a TV market that craves college sports, then I can't see the great addition the market makes. All data points to the opposite of that being true.

A small state like Kansas created "The Jayhawk Network" in order to broadcast every KU basketball game played not on national stations, even the exhibition games. ESPN Full Court carries all non-exhibition KU games as well, because desire to watch the programs drives ratings which in turn opens up the path for a revenue stream.

 

[82CardsGrad]

1. Big Ten: $154.2 million
2. ACC: $137.6 million
3. SEC: $135 million
4. Big 12: $103.1 million
5. Pac-10: $80.1 million
6. Big East: $77.6 million

One reason why. The Big East is a bastardized conference with 14 basketball teams and only 8 football teams.

Isn't that the way its always been? Has that reality changed materially over the last 3-5 years?? Not sure what that data means in terms of the Pac-10 "dying"...

 

[82CardsGrad]

Why is this, John? Probably because there is a serious lack of professional sports to follow in their place. Not too much of a problem in Denver, which was a point I made 7 posts ago.

I would say Florida and Georgia have pro sports teams to follow.

And again, if you're the Pac-10 and you know you can grab a bunch of eye when your LA-based teams are playing CU, you do the deal....

 

[DWKB]

I would say Florida and Georgia have pro sports teams to follow.

And again, if you're the Pac-10 and you know you can grab a bunch of eye when your LA-based teams are playing CU, you do the deal....

Sure I guess, I just think a few are vastly overstating the impact based upon the data.

 

[Gaddabout]

Isn't this apples and oranges?? The SEC doesn't need schools in the Top 30 markets nearly as much as does the Pac-10. SEC football has been an American institution for decades. With the exception of schools like Kentucky and South Carolina (though with Spurrier that has certainly changed), TV loves carrying any SEC matchup! The same can't be said about the Pac-10, or any other conference for that matter...

Those schools also tend to be self-supporting. You mentioned South Carolina. They're among the Top 10 in the country in donations, I believe. Crazy fans.