OT: Supreme Court says NCAA system is "flat out illegal"

AZman5103

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So the NCAA reached an agreement with players...but was so disgusted at the thought of sharing revenue with players....THEY appealed the case and in went to the SCOTUS.

The Supreme Court UNANMIOUSLY ruled that the NCAA is violating every anti-trust law in the books!! They also clearly wrote out in their opinion, that they are open to striking down even more of the NCAA system if those issues are brought before the court.

Basically, this is the end of college sports as we know it. I don't know how I feel...other than the NCAA is so selfish, so greedy, and so corrupt, that they just destroyed themselves.
 

gimpy

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I’m not sure exactly how it will change things. All the good players will still go to the elite big time schools and get paid, above board now, I guess?

How does this affect the less talented players and lesser schools? Do they still give scholarships or do away with them? Will they drop their sports programs? How will TV contracts work? Sports, especially football, is such a huge money maker with television involved, at least for the big time programs, I don’t know?:)
 

Zeno

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The Supreme Court did come short of saying the players should be paid a salary. In fact it says it will "allow payments for things like musical instruments, scientific equipment, postgraduate scholarships, tutoring, study abroad, academic awards and internships. It did not permit the outright payment of salaries"

I read one article that it will open up things like endorsement deals, that will be a slippery slope as that will be outside of institutional control and unethical universities will use local boosters to fund money directly to recruits (even more than what happens already).
 

Mainstreet

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The NCAA is going to have to change their thinking on so many issues if they are going to survive. The student athlete is entitled to a slice of the pie when it comes to revenue.
 
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AZman5103

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The Supreme Court did come short of saying the players should be paid a salary. In fact it says it will "allow payments for things like musical instruments, scientific equipment, postgraduate scholarships, tutoring, study abroad, academic awards and internships. It did not permit the outright payment of salaries"

I read one article that it will open up things like endorsement deals, that will be a slippery slope as that will be outside of institutional control and unethical universities will use local boosters to fund money directly to recruits (even more than what happens already).

You are correct. They did not say the athletes have to be paid by the schools, but they made it very clear it was illegal for the NCAA to prevent players from being paid for their work.

The tidbit I liked the most:

"Traditions alone cannot justify the NCAA’s decision to build a massive money-raising enterprise on the backs of student athletes who are not fairly compensated. Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate. And under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different. The NCAA is not above the law."

Basically the NCAA's entire argument was..."Yea, we don't pay our players...thats our thing! We actually go out an promote the fact that we don't pay labor...we think thats what makes people want to watch it!!"

It was one of the most asinine arguments ever, and literally exposed even more anti-trust laws that are being broken. The NCAA had a way to move forward...but instead appealed the case, incriminated itself, and has now opened the door for billion and billions of dollars in law suits.
 

slanidrac16

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As long as the school doesn’t pay them in money. Scholarships, food, and things like that are fine

How I see this is now a player can sign a shoe endorsement, do commercials etc. without jeopardising their amateur status. I think it’s ridiculous to see coaches getting paid 10m a year while telling players they can’t benefit from their talent. After all, these kids may be outstanding athletes, they may end up playing professionally and yet their dreams can be crushed with one major injury.
 
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AZman5103

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As long as the school doesn’t pay them in money. Scholarships, food, and things like that are fine

How I see this is now a player can sign a shoe endorsement, do commercials etc. without jeopardising their amateur status. I think it’s ridiculous to see coaches getting paid 10m a year while telling players they can’t benefit from their talent. After all, these kids may be outstanding athletes, they may end up playing professionally and yet their dreams can be crushed with one major injury.

One of the next steps will be eliminating any sort of age rule over 18. You cannot tell an adult they cannot make money from their work. For basketball...its makes ZERO sense to go to college if you can get a shoe deal/commercials right out of high school. Your hype would fade pretty quick if you chose to play against inferior competition rather than go to the NBA. The NBA also has the D-League, where players can develop while getting paid as a pro. An influx of talent could be great for the D-League, but horrible for college basketball.

In football its going to be difficult, because I would argue that practically zero players would be able to jump from high school football to the pros...it seems almost impossible. So college football has got to turn into basically an official minor league NFL. It's also much more rare to have a standout true freshman in NCAA football...so often players aren't even getting game reps until their soph/jr/sr years...and that might be after redshirting. What I can't figure out is how the ability to promote and pay players doesn't destroy basically everyone but the SEC. Good high school players already know, if you want to be on TV and play in big games...you go to the SEC. Now you throw in Alabama or Georgia being able to offer you endorsements and money....how do we avoid 3-4 Super Teams in College Football?
 

Dback Jon

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One of the next steps will be eliminating any sort of age rule over 18. You cannot tell an adult they cannot make money from their work. For basketball...its makes ZERO sense to go to college if you can get a shoe deal/commercials right out of high school. Your hype would fade pretty quick if you chose to play against inferior competition rather than go to the NBA. The NBA also has the D-League, where players can develop while getting paid as a pro. An influx of talent could be great for the D-League, but horrible for college basketball.

In football its going to be difficult, because I would argue that practically zero players would be able to jump from high school football to the pros...it seems almost impossible. So college football has got to turn into basically an official minor league NFL. It's also much more rare to have a standout true freshman in NCAA football...so often players aren't even getting game reps until their soph/jr/sr years...and that might be after redshirting. What I can't figure out is how the ability to promote and pay players doesn't destroy basically everyone but the SEC. Good high school players already know, if you want to be on TV and play in big games...you go to the SEC. Now you throw in Alabama or Georgia being able to offer you endorsements and money....how do we avoid 3-4 Super Teams in College Football?


The age limit has zero to do with the NCAA - that is what the players and the leagues have negotiated. Players are free to go professional in non-NBA/NFL leagues at whatever age each allows.
 
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AZman5103

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The age limit has zero to do with the NCAA - that is what the players and the leagues have negotiated. Players are free to go professional in non-NBA/NFL leagues at whatever age each allows.

Yes, and that age restriction is in clear violation of anti-trust laws. It is already working its way up the court system. You cannot tell someone with the ability to work and earn money through their work, that they are not allowed to do so because of their age....as long as they are a legal adult. It's an unwinnable position for the NBA, which is why they are already talking about dropping it in the new CBA.


The only reason the NFL has an age restriction is because it benefits them...or has until this point. It is of no benefit to players. Right now the NFL gets to see top high school players go to big time universities, get world class training, coaching (many former NFL guys), and the like....and it costs them nothing. If a star player fizzles out, gets in trouble, or gets hurt...the NFL just dodged a bullet. College football is basically an unpaid internship for the NFL...and the majority of players never make it to the "paid part".

I am starting to wonder if the NFL just doesn't embrace this and basically create a "Future Stars" division where the league helps market, promote, and get them drafted?? I can't see any way it will work if the schools/conferences are left to their own devices. It will be even more corrupt and fixed than it is now.
 

Jetstream Green

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Let's be frank, college sports are not really about school pride anymore but a means for universities to keep extracting money from their graduates and networking landscape as whole. It is totally wrong what colleges are doing to their student athletes now for their own money and then standing behind the facade of tradition. These are not minors in high school, they are adults and the QB for a school has just as much rights as the president of the university when it comes to any financial venture which he is included and that is part of collegiate sports now
 

Finito

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Let's be frank, college sports are not really about school pride anymore but a means for universities to keep extracting money from their graduates. It is totally wrong what colleges are doing to their student athletes now for their own money and then standing behind the facade of tradition. These are not minors in high school, they are adults and the QB for a school has just as much rights as the president of the university when it comes to any financial venture which he is included and that is part of collegiate sports now

yeah those days are long gone

it’s typically the same type of person who argues they shouldn’t be paid.

Ohio State football is valued at 2 billion dollars. How can anyone look at that and still think players shouldn’t get paid.
 
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AZman5103

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How about some kind of pension...including medical care...and the ability to return to the university for further free education in the future??

Maybe it avoids payers being paid directly...and we need to remember that most NCAA athletes never make it in the pros. There needs to be some consideration given to the fact that a lot of athletes are risking lifelong injury to make money for the university.
 

oaken1

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The NCAA is going to have to change their thinking on so many issues if they are going to survive. The student athlete is entitled to a slice of the pie when it comes to revenue.
because a 100,000 $ education ain’t worth anything
 

oaken1

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How about some kind of pension...including medical care...and the ability to return to the university for further free education in the future??

Maybe it avoids payers being paid directly...and we need to remember that most NCAA athletes never make it in the pros. There needs to be some consideration given to the fact that a lot of athletes are risking lifelong injury to make money for the university.
I agree. A players education should be paid for if their playing career ends due to injury... and if a guy makes the roster for three seasons his education should be free at least up to doctoral if not for life

education costs of course include meals... dorm fees... books.. lab fees... etc

free education is worthless if a guy has nowhere to live and nothing to eat
 

oaken1

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How about some kind of pension...including medical care...and the ability to return to the university for further free education in the future??

Maybe it avoids payers being paid directly...and we need to remember that most NCAA athletes never make it in the pros. There needs to be some consideration given to the fact that a lot of athletes are risking lifelong injury to make money for the university.
I agree. A players education should be paid for if their playing career ends due to injury... and if a guy makes the roster for three seasons his education should be free at least up to doctoral if not for life

education costs of course include meals... dorm fees... books.. lab fees... etc

free education is worthless if a guy has nowhere to live and nothing to eat
 
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AZman5103

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because a 100,000 $ education ain’t worth anything

I get it, but that's not even reality anymore. Especially in ncaa basketball. There is not a single top NCAA team that is recruiting players based on education. They know they are there for 1 year, they know they aren't going to class, and they were probably already paid under the table.

The players that are being recruited are not being recruited because of academics, or what they might do at the university. They are recruited to win games, and make money. That's what both sides agree to.
 

Solar7

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because a 100,000 $ education ain’t worth anything
Oftentimes it really isn't. Especially when you're recruiting kids who aren't smart enough (or grew up in poor enough conditions) to pass entrance exams, understand the core concepts of the classes, and even then, are given a free pass in the classes anyways. I'm not going to say which one, but a former ASU starting quarterback was in my English 201 class, and we had a peer-review of our papers going on. I let him read mine (you had to read 3) even though he hadn't brought his own paper, and even though my paper was about football, he handed it back to me and very prominently said in front of the class, "sorry, this has too many big words. Appreciate it though dude." I'm 95% sure he got an A in the class.

How are these people supposed to make a good living after school like this? At least compensate them for their jersey being sold, sponsorships, whatever. Give them a head start before they go out and try to navigate the job market with a general studies degree.
 

oaken1

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Oftentimes it really isn't. Especially when you're recruiting kids who aren't smart enough (or grew up in poor enough conditions) to pass entrance exams, understand the core concepts of the classes, and even then, are given a free pass in the classes anyways. I'm not going to say which one, but a former ASU starting quarterback was in my English 201 class, and we had a peer-review of our papers going on. I let him read mine (you had to read 3) even though he hadn't brought his own paper, and even though my paper was about football, he handed it back to me and very prominently said in front of the class, "sorry, this has too many big words. Appreciate it though dude." I'm 95% sure he got an A in the class.

How are these people supposed to make a good living after school like this? At least compensate them for their jersey being sold, sponsorships, whatever. Give them a head start before they go out and try to navigate the job market with a general studies degree.


Yeah.... making a living after college is the point. It’s shameful and despicable that guys make it to the pros and can’t even read. Some of its on the system but most of it is on the player. They have an opportunity to get an education that can benefit them their entire lives but many of them are too damned stupid to take advantage of it..... I’ve heard all the arguments about time management and oh it’s so hard.... but it’s all ********. Every year we see guys getting drafted that have already earned their degree.... you know why? Because those guys earned it. They put in the work. They spent their weekends at study hall instead of at house parties... instead of living it up and trying to be a super star they were responsible and did what they had to do to succeed..... and usually those guys who graduate before the draft didn’t get their degree in basket weaving or communications

they have standards in place and they need to enforce them. If a guy can’t get a qualifying score on the SAT and maintain a C average he doesn’t deserve to play college sports
 

Solar7

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Yeah.... making a living after college is the point. It’s shameful and despicable that guys make it to the pros and can’t even read. Some of its on the system but most of it is on the player. They have an opportunity to get an education that can benefit them their entire lives but many of them are too damned stupid to take advantage of it..... I’ve heard all the arguments about time management and oh it’s so hard.... but it’s all ********. Every year we see guys getting drafted that have already earned their degree.... you know why? Because those guys earned it. They put in the work. They spent their weekends at study hall instead of at house parties... instead of living it up and trying to be a super star they were responsible and did what they had to do to succeed..... and usually those guys who graduate before the draft didn’t get their degree in basket weaving or communications

they have standards in place and they need to enforce them. If a guy can’t get a qualifying score on the SAT and maintain a C average he doesn’t deserve to play college sports
I agree with most of this. The problem is, the schools don't really care. They want to win, and schools across the NCAA have a ton of scholarships to give out. They have enormous rosters to fill.

I'm gonna be honest, I love ASU, but my college education was worthless. I learned nothing I use today. Now, I took AP/IB classes in high school, but most of college wasn't a challenge at all.

Kids are paying a wild amount of money for an education that means next to nothing these days. Now, a college degree gets you a $15/hr job. Hell, when I graduated, it got me a retail manager job, then no one that wanted to hire me for my degree. I took a $10/hr part time job and was practically homeless until I was 23/24 and finally got a whopping $35k a year. And I'm smart. Mostly. :lol:
 

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