OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[Chopper0080]

I kinda was hyped on JG because he was a fan of Kyler. However, yea it didnt seem like his plan was well thought out on how to make it work. It was more just how tough it was for JG to defend him when he had the Eagles defense.

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An easy mistake for a first time HC to make.

 

[Russ Smith]

The situation the Cardinals have put themselves in is rare. A QB that has never done anything of note getting paid what he does and then the team wanting to get out of it is something pretty unique.

But there are some similarities we can pull from other trades. The Mayfield trade was a conditional 5th. His team were sellers, having already traded for Watson, that weakened their position. And Mayfield was younger with more untapped potential.

Kyler's situation is far closer to Brock Osweiler than any of these, where the Texans had to pay to get rid of his contract. I'm not saying he's Osweiler, but the situation is closer to that than say, the trade of Alex Smith from the Chiefs to Washington which was for a 3rd. Smith had a long track record of winning and was a proven NFL QB.

Smith was 33.

There just aren't comparable situations. We have no idea what the Cards can get for kyler after the season.

We don't even know for sure we'll trade him, if he somehow finishes the year strong, and I don't expect it, we may not want to trade him although I personally still would.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think the locker room visit was more from embarrassment than physical injury

The sideline reporter during the game said the call came down for Kyler to go to the tent, it made no sense it couldn't have been the ball to the head and then they said it was his foot.

That whole thing was bizarre. He hurt himself earlier in the game you can see him limping on the drive where Marv makes the leaping grab and then Carter scores. In fact the announcer called it out as it was happening. I have no idea how he hurt himself but then nothing until the bonk on the head play and then it's his foot so my guess is when he finally dove forward after the ball was recovered he somehow tweaked the foot again.

I did see something that explained one part of that play a former ref said the reason the play wasn't blown dead when Hernandez was literally standing up on the snap was that they're taught not to reward the offense in that situation. Yes it was clearly a false start or illegal formation because he was standing up when the ball was snapped, but to blow the play dead rewards the offense.

 

[BritCard]

Can’t wait for our next QB to improve us into the top 10.

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Well yeah, we are in 26th because our QB sucks.

 

[BritCard]

I kinda was hyped on JG because he was a fan of Kyler. However, yea it didnt seem like his plan was well thought out on how to make it work. It was more just how tough it was for JG to defend him when he had the Eagles defense.

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There is no plan for making a guy taller, or making him stand in the pocket to complete the pass or be able to accurately throw the ball over 15 yards.

There's no coaching that can fix Kyler's issues. We tried an offense designed specifically for Kyler's limitations with Kliff, and now we tried one for a grown up NFL QB and that doesn't work either.

But I can see how JG might have been a fan of Kyler from outside and as a defensive guy, his erratic play is hard to plan for. And I can see how once he got in the building and saw the downsides of that he's not so much a fan anymore.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't know how people think the Vikes are nuts enough to give up draft capital for a failed vet QB with one terrible playoff experience and a losing record that couldn't connect consistently with his WR's at any point in his career outside of D hop.

Nothing about them indicates that's the type of move they would make.

I don't think they will either but the why is pretty simple. They have a stacked roster that's ready to win right now. They have a great WR and now with Addison back they're ready to go, but at least now JJ is clearly not ready. So you would be essentially saying they don't want to waste their talent with a QB who isn't ready.

But that assumes they can get Kyler to perform there. O'Connell is really good and he just did it with Darnold but Darnolds issues were always different than Kyler's.

It won't happen because they have made their decision to go with JJ and they will go with him for longer than one year

 

[QuebecCard]

This is one of the cope-y-est posts Ive ever read. The dudes been playing football his entire life and is getting paid 45M/year to find open receivers. Its his job.

And... $45m doesn't give you a satellite view of the playing field and a few seconds to decide.

 

[QuebecCard]

There is no plan for making a guy taller, or making him stand in the pocket to complete the pass or be able to accurately throw the ball over 15 yards.

There's no coaching that can fix Kyler's issues. We tried an offense designed specifically for Kyler's limitations with Kliff, and now we tried one for a grown up NFL QB and that doesn't work either.

But I can see how JG might have been a fan of Kyler from outside and as a defensive guy, his erratic play is hard to plan for. And I can see how once he got in the building and saw the downsides of that he's not so much a fan anymore.

I see the possibility that what you see and what you think JG sees might be different.

 

[SoonerLou]

I don't think they will either but the why is pretty simple. They have a stacked roster that's ready to win right now. They have a great WR and now with Addison back they're ready to go, but at least now JJ is clearly not ready. So you would be essentially saying they don't want to waste their talent with a QB who isn't ready.

But that assumes they can get Kyler to perform there. O'Connell is really good and he just did it with Darnold but Darnolds issues were always different than Kyler's.

It won't happen because they have made their decision to go with JJ and they will go with him for longer than one year

I would not be shocked if KOC takes a chance on Anthony Richardson. Technically a backup and not proven enough to put added pressure on JJ. Also still has big potential and again different issues than Kyler.

 

[Russ Smith]

I would not be shocked if KOC takes a chance on Anthony Richardson. Technically a backup and not proven enough to put added pressure on JJ. Also still has big potential and again different issues than Kyler.

That would actually surprise me. ONe thing about QB whisperers is they recognize when someone isn't actually a QB. Richardson is a RB with a strong arm playing Qb, he's just terrible and he'll continue to get hurt because he runs but never protects himself.

I think Kyler could put up numbers playing in Minnesota the thing is I think Britcard could put up numbers playing QB there they have a stacked offense and a great QB guru coach. I am not a McCarthy fan at all but if he plays the last 10 games or so there this year I'd be surprised if even he doesn't put up numbers as loaded as they are now.

 

[kerouac9]

It’s worth remembering that defensive coaches love the idea of Kyler because they struggle to scheme to control his chaos. Offensive coaches know the trade off isn’t worth it.

This is how the Jets ended up with Justin Fields.

 

[kerouac9]

I kinda was hyped on JG because he was a fan of Kyler. However, yea it didnt seem like his plan was well thought out on how to make it work. It was more just how tough it was for JG to defend him when he had the Eagles defense.

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Remember how Atlanta was struggling to fit Mike Vick into an offensive structure and brought in Greg Knapp from San Fran to install a traditional WCO? The idea was that you give quick-passing options and if there’s nothing then run. Like how Steve Young was developed.

Didn’t work there, either. Footwork was too sloppy, and even if both Vick and Kyler have/had the arm to make every throw, the WCO is a timing-based offense, which is driven by footwork.

 

[schutd]

And... $45m doesn't give you a satellite view of the playing field and a few seconds to decide.

Normally my friend, you and I align fairly closely with regard to the extreme swings of emotion on this board and try and temper that. But you're way out on a limb here, saying that our access to all 22 and Kylers lack thereof makes our criticism of him unfair. He has access to it after the game. And could conceivably be able to use it to learn and improve. I don't know that he doesn't, but 7 years of results on the field tend to intimate that either he doesn't do the work, or if he does, he's lacking something between the ears to translate what he surely MUST be seeing when watching film, to the field when the live bullets are flying.

I honestly just think he's scared. I would be, too. Wish I got paid 45M to turtle every time I faced pressure at my job.

Kyler needs to go.

So does Petzing. There's no question in mind, especially after calling a 3rd and 8 play a run with no audible for the supposed leader of this team, that he is not the OC we're looking for.

 

[schutd]

@kerouac9 "Wow" cause Im out of my mind? I honestly never trust my instincts with regard to football analysis. Too empathetic to ever truly assign blame to one area when it truly is a team sport from ownership through the front office, to the coaches to the players. SO many things.

But I just cant see a world where keeping either of them vindicates the other. They both suck, and that 3rd down play call finished the deal. Petzing doesn't trust the Star of this team to deliver a first down, and he doesn't have the stones to call a p[lay that actually has a chance, regardless of the QB. Very nearly for the HC as well, IMO. But Im willing to sit tight with him for now...

 

[QuebecCard]

Normally my friend, you and I align fairly closely with regard to the extreme swings of emotion on this board and try and temper that. But you're way out on a limb here, saying that our access to all 22 and Kylers lack thereof makes our criticism of him unfair. He has access to it after the game. And could conceivably be able to use it to learn and improve. I don't know that he doesn't, but 7 years of results on the field tend to intimate that either he doesn't do the work, or if he does, he's lacking something between the ears to translate what he surely MUST be seeing when watching film, to the field when the live bullets are flying.

I honestly just think he's scared. I would be, too. Wish I got paid 45M to turtle every time I faced pressure at my job.

Kyler needs to go.

So does Petzing. There's no question in mind, especially after calling a 3rd and 8 play a run with no audible for the supposed leader of this team, that he is not the OC we're looking for.

Not unfair, but lacking full consideration of the vantage point available to the on-field participant as fans assess from on high.

I don't think he's scared. At his size, he understands how to survive. Macho style would have made his career even shorter than that of Andrew Luck.

Agree on Petzing's future and will reserve my views on KM.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Not unfair, but lacking full consideration of the vantage point available to the on-field participant as fans assess from on high.

I don't think he's scared. At his size, he understands how to survive. Macho style would have made his career even shorter than that of Andrew Luck.

Agree on Petzing's future and will reserve my views on KM.

But from a QB who says he's in a place where he doesn't need much film study because he can just see things. I guess he's wrong then?? If he is in the zone he should be able to see everything.

 

[schutd]

Not unfair, but lacking full consideration of the vantage point available to the on-field participant as fans assess from on high.

I don't think he's scared. At his size, he understands how to survive. Macho style would have made his career even shorter than that of Andrew Luck.

Agree on Petzing's future and will reserve my views on KM.

I would argue that our criticism lacks full consideration not because he doesn't have the vantage point, but that WE don't get to see what would happen to the back of our drawers when we faced a 300lb DL bearing down on us.

Either way, Im cool with people wanting to keep reserving judgement on a final call on KMs future here. I dont. Im out.

 

[602 Native]

Well yeah, we are in 26th because our QB sucks.

Yes we know Brit change the QB and all problems offensively go away.

Or keep Adams and fire BPB.

 

[SoonerLou]

Remember how Atlanta was struggling to fit Mike Vick into an offensive structure and brought in Greg Knapp from San Fran to install a traditional WCO? The idea was that you give quick-passing options and if there’s nothing then run. Like how Steve Young was developed.

Didn’t work there, either. Footwork was too sloppy, and even if both Vick and Kyler have/had the arm to make every throw, the WCO is a timing-based offense, which is driven by footwork.

That is a very good point. Knapp was a true by the book WCO coach and Vick went from one of the most fun players to watch to one of the most frustrating.

I think it only worked a short time in Philly cause Andy Reid is one of more creative play callers ever. However, by the time Vick figured it out his body started breaking down.

And the thing that many overlooked about Steve Young was he sat a lot of time on the bench and truly learned that offense. Only played here and there for about 5 years. The 49ers took their time to really redefine his game.

 

[gmabel830]

Just saw this on Reddit - this was the horrible intentional grounding play.

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[BritCard]

Not unfair, but lacking full consideration of the vantage point available to the on-field participant as fans assess from on high.

I don't think he's scared. At his size, he understands how to survive. Macho style would have made his career even shorter than that of Andrew Luck.

Agree on Petzing's future and will reserve my views on KM.

He's 215 to 220lb.

He's short, not frail. He's no lighter than Lamar, Wilson, Brees, Mayfield and a dozen other QB's that stand in the pocket and take hits.

 

[kerouac9]

@kerouac9 "Wow" cause Im out of my mind? I honestly never trust my instincts with regard to football analysis. Too empathetic to ever truly assign blame to one area when it truly is a team sport from ownership through the front office, to the coaches to the players. SO many things.

But I just cant see a world where keeping either of them vindicates the other. They both suck, and that 3rd down play call finished the deal. Petzing doesn't trust the Star of this team to deliver a first down, and he doesn't have the stones to call a p[lay that actually has a chance, regardless of the QB. Very nearly for the HC as well, IMO. But Im willing to sit tight with him for now...

I dunno. I totally understand being frustrated. But I’d be careful about throwing out the baby with the bath water here.

I think you increase volatility by dumping both QB and OC, but I’m SUPER conservative about this kind of thing. Petzing should have to interview for his job at the end of the year. I do kinda agree with @BritCard that the offense doesn’t seem poorly designed; it’s poorly coached and executed.

 

[Mulli]

I dunno. I totally understand being frustrated. But I’d be careful about throwing out the baby with the bath water here.

I think you increase volatility by dumping both QB and OC, but I’m SUPER conservative about this kind of thing. Petzing should have to interview for his job at the end of the year. I do kinda agree with @BritCard that the offense doesn’t seem poorly designed; it’s poorly coached and executed.

Ya, be careful. Team might be crap again. Again. Who cares

 

[BritCard]

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[AZ Fan]

I posed a question to AI; assessment of Arizona Cardinal's Kyler Murray?

“The 2025 season is widely viewed as a pivotal "do-or-die" year for Murray's future with the Cardinals, but his performance through the first five games has been inconsistent and punctuated by a new injury.”