OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[SoonerLou]

Kyler will likely enter tomorrow top 5 in QBR.

Gotta start resulting in wins though.

78 QBR tonight. Annddd I don't know how. Maybe comp bumping it up/accounting for drops.

Almost 69 QBR on the season/top 5.

If he/Petzing could ever figure out a consistent forward pass. We might have something. As of now Im still questioning everything. Even QBR lol

 

[K1Day1]

78 QBR tonight. Annddd I don't know how. Maybe comp bumping it up/accounting for drops.

Almost 69 QBR on the season/top 5.

If he/Petzing could ever figure out a consistent forward pass. We might have something. As of now Im still questioning everything. Even QBR lol

Great post ! ! !... Right now the guy is ranked the 5th best QB in the NFL. Though very inconsistent, not sure what the problem is but I agree that they seriously need to figure it out. There's No way you should have a QB ranked in the top 5 and a struggling offense smh... Makes no sense.. Put Petzing in the box and take him off the sidelines and maybe that might make a difference, seems to have done wonders for Kingsbury lol

 

[BritCard]

Can we stop with the Kyler is bad/great conversations? It's obvious that neither are true, and unlikely to be so anytime soon.

The conversation should be around is Kyler good enough to ____________.

Is he good enough to take a mediocre team to the playoffs? I don't think so.

Is he good enough to lead a good team to the playoffs? I think so.

Based on that, then you have to pour resources into putting a good team around him. That takes skill and luck. Under-resourcing our 2024 roster was a choice, and likely puts us back another year. But maybe we get another 1-2 really good prospects out of it?

Meh. Making the playoffs is an underwhelming goal.

Can Kyler get us to the playoffs and beat a good team? Can he go head to head with a great QB and drag a team over the line that isn't at 100%? Like Burrow, Allen, Lamar, Stroud etc can do? No, I don't think he can.

If Kyler is just a QB that can only beat good teams when everything is going his way and everyone is playing the top of their game, well, there are plenty of QB's that can do that.

 

[BritCard]

Do you do this on purpose for likes?

You have a lot of people here already that are anti-Kyler & are ready to move on from him than the opposite. The fact you keep trying so hard to not see that is completely hilarious.

Do I do what on purpose? It's tedious watching the same people over and over blame everything but Kyler for Kyler being poor.

When Kyler is good, I say that he is good. I don't say "Oh he was only good because of Petzing, or the receivers or the Oline".

And if he is bad and it's clearly because of Petzing, or the receivers or the O line I will say so.

But a lot of the time he's just independently bad. He makes poor reads, poor decisions and poor throws.

Trust me, I want Kyler to be great. I honestly expected him to be great this year. A lot of the things off the field that I've criticized him about he fixed. His community and fan engagement has been great, his media engagement has been much improved, his enthusiasm and buy in looked like exactly what we want. I really wanted him to be fixed.

But he's been the same as he was, actually worse than the games he came back from injury last year.

 

[BritCard]

78 QBR tonight. Annddd I don't know how. Maybe comp bumping it up/accounting for drops.

Almost 69 QBR on the season/top 5.

If he/Petzing could ever figure out a consistent forward pass. We might have something. As of now Im still questioning everything. Even QBR lol

For the same reason Mitch Trubisky once came 3rd in QBR. It favours mobile QB's, especially those that can avoid a sack and turn a 6 yard loss into 4 yard gain. A bunch of negative plays with the arm can be overcome with positive plays with their legs.

No system is perfect for these things. Even in his best season Kyler was 7th overall in 2021, and every game other than the Rams I'd say has been worse than his worst regular season game that season.

Also there's been some pretty poor QB play this year. Mahomes, Rodgers, Hurts etc of all been down.

It's insane to me that Kyler is 5th and CJ Stroud is 12th, Jordan Love 14th, Jared Goff 15th, Baker Mayfield 16th and Sam Darnold 18th. All of whom have clearly been far, far superior to Kyler. Heck, Caleb Williams is 26th and I'd say he's been better.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

For the same reason Mitch Trubisky once came 3rd in QBR. It favours mobile QB's, especially those that can avoid a sack and turn a 6 yard loss into 4 yard gain. A bunch of negative plays with the arm can be overcome with positive plays with their legs.

No system is perfect for these things. Even in his best season Kyler was 7th overall in 2021, and every game other than the Rams I'd say has been worse than his worst regular season game that season.

Also there's been some pretty poor QB play this year. Mahomes, Rodgers, Hurts etc of all been down.

It's insane to me that Kyler is 5th and CJ Stroud is 12th, Jordan Love 14th, Jared Goff 15th, Baker Mayfield 16th and Sam Darnold 18th. All of whom have clearly been far, far superior to Kyler. Heck, Caleb Williams is 26th and I'd say he's been better.

Eh. Like I said Brit. Get Murray another Dhop and watch him suddenly become a more competent passer.

Also, how effective is Murray when he's throwing to Big Play Trey? See what I mean?

And didn't you like how calm and poised he was last night?

The Chargers pass rush was on him, but he still executed most of the plays pretty well, including on the game winning drive.

I'm proud of Murray gutting out a tough win just like I'm proud of Conner and the defense.

 

[DaHilg]

For the same reason Mitch Trubisky once came 3rd in QBR. It favours mobile QB's, especially those that can avoid a sack and turn a 6 yard loss into 4 yard gain. A bunch of negative plays with the arm can be overcome with positive plays with their legs.

No system is perfect for these things. Even in his best season Kyler was 7th overall in 2021, and every game other than the Rams I'd say has been worse than his worst regular season game that season.

Also there's been some pretty poor QB play this year. Mahomes, Rodgers, Hurts etc of all been down.

It's insane to me that Kyler is 5th and CJ Stroud is 12th, Jordan Love 14th, Jared Goff 15th, Baker Mayfield 16th and Sam Darnold 18th. All of whom have clearly been far, far superior to Kyler. Heck, Caleb Williams is 26th and I'd say he's been better.

Put Kyler in any of those offenses and he’s putting up big stats as well. Stroud is the only one of those QBs I’d take over Kyler today. Jordan Love has a good 8 game stretch last year and also an amazing game vs our pathetic D. Outside of that I’m far from sold on him. He’s got an excellent offensive minded coach and a great Oline.

 

[Adrian]

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[602 Native]

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Love it

 

[Crimson Warrior]

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It's not completely unfair. In a close, defensive struggle, that 40 yard TD run last night was a back-breaker.

LAC and and their golden boy Herbert couldn't find the endzone all night, but in blink of an eye K1 changed the entire script of that game.

 

[vince56]

78 QBR tonight. Annddd I don't know how. Maybe comp bumping it up/accounting for drops.

Almost 69 QBR on the season/top 5.

If he/Petzing could ever figure out a consistent forward pass. We might have something. As of now Im still questioning everything. Even QBR lol

I have yet to see any passes deep over the middle. No posts, nothing. It’s wild.

 

[BritCard]

I we using QBR to say Kyler is good now? Because in his career he's been 15th, 14th, 7th, 19th and 22nd.

That's an average of 15.5.

So over his career he's 15-16th best QB in the league right?

Just to be this QBR copium into context. Josh Dobbs had a better QBR than Kyler last year.

 

[Outerlimits]

78 QBR tonight. Annddd I don't know how. Maybe comp bumping it up/accounting for drops.

Almost 69 QBR on the season/top 5.

If he/Petzing could ever figure out a consistent forward pass. We might have something. As of now Im still questioning everything. Even QBR lol

Living in Virginia I'm watching the 5-2 Commanders have their best offense in years. Perhaps Kyler is just a mediocre QB now.

He hasn't been the same since coming back from the injury in the Green Bay game several years ago. I mainly blamed Kliff for that, but I may owe him an apology. Lol.

 

[DaHilg]

I we using QBR to say Kyler is good now? Because in his career he's been 15th, 14th, 7th, 19th and 22nd.

That's an average of 15.5.

So over his career he's 15-16th best QB in the league right?

Just to be this QBR copium into context. Josh Dobbs had a better QBR than Kyler last year.

Playcalling is sooo much.. also - of those top 5 QBR who is working with the least on BOTH sides of the ball

 

[BritCard]

Playcalling is sooo much.. also - of those top 5 QBR who is working with the least on BOTH sides of the ball

You mean the play calling that Kyler had for 4 years that is now running the best offense in Washington with a rookie QB and some dudes?

 

[urs]

You mean the play calling that Kyler had for 4 years that is now running the best offense in Washington with a rookie QB and some dudes?

Apples to apples, clearly. Always chiming in with the most logical takes

 

[SoonerLou]

I we using QBR to say Kyler is good now? Because in his career he's been 15th, 14th, 7th, 19th and 22nd.

That's an average of 15.5.

So over his career he's 15-16th best QB in the league right?

Just to be this QBR copium into context. Josh Dobbs had a better QBR than Kyler last year.

I don't think anyone thought K1 was "good" in 22/23. Last year some gave it a pass because new offense/back from ACL. I still questioned the fit more than most because he was always very efficient/productive when we had a good run game. But maybe excused it because of weapons.

15th is solid for a rookie. Year 2 he was comfortably top 10 until the shoulder injury.

Most view K1 in the 12 (dropped from 10 to 12 in passer rating) to 15 QB range. So that checks out. I do think he's been better than his raw #s this year.

 

[FB94]

IMO Murray is in the middle of the pack as far as overall QBs in the league. Is he a real threat with his legs, absolutely. Throwing the ball and running through his WR progression is still lacking at times. Feels like a one read and chuck it a lot to me. After year 6 in the NFL would have expected him to do this at a higher level

 

[TJ]

If Kyler is no better than 15th best in the league, in season six, then we have to start scouting other QBs. He’s not getting better and we’re not gonna win with a QB who’s no better than league average.

 

[DaHilg]

You mean the play calling that Kyler had for 4 years that is now running the best offense in Washington with a rookie QB and some dudes?

Wild idea.. maybe Kliffy’s schemes as adjusted? I sure am not seeing any bubble screens when I’m watching Washington?

Also personal - better Oline than he had ever here. Better RB combo than he had ever here. McLaurin is better than any WR not name Nuk that we have had during Kyler’s tenure

 

[SoonerLou]

Wild idea.. maybe Kliffy’s schemes as adjusted? I sure am not seeing any bubble screens when I’m watching Washington?

Also personal - better Oline than he had ever here. Better RB combo than he had ever here. McLaurin is better than any WR not name Nuk that we have had during Kyler’s tenure

I'll disagree a bit here. I do think spending a year with Lincoln Riley helped Kliff. However, I will say I think Daniels is just operating it a supremely high level. Even though he wasn't much of a over the middle thrower in college he showing that in Washington. I also think at least early we see the difference in K1 starting just 1 year in college vs Daniels starting 5. Give them credit.

I think Petzing has done good things with the under center stuff with Kyler. However, you cant overcorrect him cause that's not 100% his skillset. We should throw in more no huddle + mesh routes every now and then. You cant overly on it cause there a limitations with that too of that as well with Kyler. Ravens have changed Lamar from a QB no one wanted to trade for to a possible back to back MVP by having an experienced play caller who elevated him in some ways and still kept concepts he was good at.

Petzing as a first time play caller is still trying find out who he is while learning/figuring out a way around certain limitations. And it shows.

 

[BritCard]

Wild idea.. maybe Kliffy’s schemes as adjusted? I sure am not seeing any bubble screens when I’m watching Washington?

Also personal - better Oline than he had ever here. Better RB combo than he had ever here. McLaurin is better than any WR not name Nuk that we have had during Kyler’s tenure

This is wild.

It's the same scheme. Their O line is Brandon Coleman, Nick Allegretti, Tyler Biadasz, Sam Cosmi and Andrew Wylie.

Their running backs are Brian Robinson and cast off Austin Ekeler. Brian Robinson was the 29th drafted running back in fantasy this year. The only starters drafted lower were Devin Singletary and JK Dobbins. James Conner was 18th.

WR 2 and 3 are Olamide Zaccheaus and Luke McCaffrey.

None of that is better than what Kliff had here.

 

[Outerlimits]

IMO Murray is in the middle of the pack as far as overall QBs in the league. Is he a real threat with his legs, absolutely. Throwing the ball and running through his WR progression is still lacking at times. Feels like a one read and chuck it a lot to me. After year 6 in the NFL would have expected him to do this at a higher level

He was the #1 Draft pick and now in year six. Middle of the pack isn't good enough. Some are still making the same excuses for him like he is a rookie or year 2.

The problem is Kliff.....the problem is Petzing.....well if Kyler actually had some talent to work with....the Oline is terrible.

On rare occasions Kyler plays extremely well(Rams game) and we all get excited again. Then the following weeks occur.

 

[Shane]

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MHJ would have likely dropped it if he found him

 

[602 Native]

He was the #1 Draft pick and now in year six. Middle of the pack isn't good enough. Some are still making the same excuses for him like he is a rookie or year 2.

The problem is Kliff.....the problem is Petzing.....well if Kyler actually had some talent to work with....the Oline is terrible.

On rare occasions Kyler plays extremely well(Rams game) and we all get excited again. Then the following weeks occur.

K1 played fine yesterday.

Cards Fans:
QBR is meaningless we want wins.

Also Cards Fans:
K1 played terribly even though we won.

This is still not a good football team talent-wise.

Can't wait for the Miami game. Bring on the fish!