Now Orton may be in play for the Cards

[kerouac9]

If one trades for Palmer, we would be picking up the remaining four years of his 11M per year contract, from what I've read.

Rotoworld on Carson's contract details (Honestly, Rotoworld's contract details database has been an amazing, remarkable project and I give them all the credit in the world for getting it done. Mad, mad props to them.): http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2550/player?r=1

12/29/2005: Signed a six-year, $118.75 million contract extension through 2014. The deal included a $15 million signing bonus and a third-year option bonus of $9 million. 2011-2012: $11.5 million, 2013: $13 million, 2014: $14 million, 2015: Free Agent

According to that, the Cards could cut ties to Palmer any time between 2011 and 2014 and be clear of his salary. Considering how productive Palmer can be, he's worth, IMO, that kind of investment for a proven NFL player. And he's 20 days younger than me, which'll make it easy to figure his age.

But we wouldn't be guaranteeing any of that money, and we're not on the hook for big up-front payments (as we would be with Kolb). Considering that we're happy releasing second- and third-round draft picks before they're able to do anything, I'm comfortable with bringing a guy who by some metrics is a Top 10 QB in on a series of one-year deals.

Orton is due nearly $9 million for 2011 and would be a free agent after that season. If you give up a 3rd round pick for him, you can probably go into the season with him as the starter and then look to hammer out a value extension if he's successful. If not, you walk away from him once the year is done and feel like you got a starting quarterback for a 3rd round pick.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Rotoworld on Carson's contract details (Honestly, Rotoworld's contract details database has been an amazing, remarkable project and I give them all the credit in the world for getting it done. Mad, mad props to them.): http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2550/player?r=1



According to that, the Cards could cut ties to Palmer any time between 2011 and 2014 and be clear of his salary. Considering how productive Palmer can be, he's worth, IMO, that kind of investment for a proven NFL player. And he's 20 days younger than me, which'll make it easy to figure his age.

But we wouldn't be guaranteeing any of that money, and we're not on the hook for big up-front payments (as we would be with Kolb). Considering that we're happy releasing second- and third-round draft picks before they're able to do anything, I'm comfortable with bringing a guy who by some metrics is a Top 10 QB in on a series of one-year deals.

Orton is due nearly $9 million for 2011 and would be a free agent after that season. If you give up a 3rd round pick for him, you can probably go into the season with him as the starter and then look to hammer out a value extension if he's successful. If not, you walk away from him once the year is done and feel like you got a starting quarterback for a 3rd round pick.

No problem with the Carson contract, to my mind.

 

[john h]

Rumors are all we have this time of the year, especially with the lock out.

If Orton can be had for a 3rd or even 2nd rd pick I'd be good with him as an option. He did stink it up against the Cards last year but IIRC that was the
first game after they fired McDaniels. Temp HC who was the OC that had never called a game in the NFL.

If Wells or THT were included in the trade we could get the pick comp down even further.

http://arizonasports.com/category/c...ur-horses,-Cards-contact-Broncos-about-Orton/

Orton is one of those QBs I think we have seen the best of and the worst of. He is not likely to turn into a Kurt Warner but not likely to embarrass you to death. I think there is more upside to Hassleback as he could have and has had spectacular years. Same with Palmer. Whether we can or would try to get them is an unknown. If we do as usual we will not take the best and likely will settle for Bulger. This is the way the Cards do things.

To win our division it is going to take a Palmer or Hassleback having a good year. I doubt we can win with anyone other than these two unless Kolb is signed and has a spectacular year which to me seems unlikely. Bulger I just do not think has it in him to win 10 games unless we suddenly develop a real good running game and the defense plays very good. We do have division winning receivers on this team.

 

[desertdawg]

Does anybody really think Orton can do anything worthwhile here? So if the answer is no, but you want him because he costs less, aren't you just wasting whatever you spend on him. Palmer and Kolb can take this club places, anybody else is just saying..."ok, were gonna suck for a while, until Skelton turns into Brady or Luck denies the 12-25 (depending on which QB we score) teams because he wants to be a Card?" You get what you pay for.

I watched a lot of Orton in Chicago, don't care to watch more and I don't see Whiz rolling the dice with this guy and all the info and film on him. If Whiz blows this QB hire this year, and we suck because of it, then the CheeseWhiz will be old and moldy.

Not to mention Orton and Leenart got some things in common, the kinda things Whiz doesn't care for.

But if he's here, I'll root for him, personally I see him doing the caveman Geico commercials soon, he wouldn't need much make up.

 

[kerouac9]

Does anybody really think Orton can do anything worthwhile here? So if the answer is no, but you want him because he costs less, aren't you just wasting whatever you spend on him. Palmer and Kolb can take this club places, anybody else is just saying..."ok, were gonna suck for a while, until Skelton turns into Brady or Luck denies the 12-25 (depending on which QB we score) teams because he wants to be a Card?"

I watched a lot of Orton in Chicago, don't care to watch more and I don't see Whiz rolling the dice with this guy and all the info and film on him. If Whiz blows this QB hire this year, and we suck because of it, then the CheeseWhiz will be old and moldy.

Not to mention Orton and Leenart got some things in common, the kinda things Whiz doesn't care for.

But if he's here, I'll root for him, personally I see him doing the caveman Geico commercials soon, he wouldn't need much make up.

The Orton who threw 18 TDs against 12 INTs when he had the least-talented offense around him that I can remember in Chicago?

I guess it doesn't take people long to black out the horrible memory of Derek Anderson being here.

I'm not sure how you can state that Kevin Kolb can "take this team places" as if it were fact.

 

[az jam]

The Orton who threw 18 TDs against 12 INTs when he had the least-talented offense around him that I can remember in Chicago?

I guess it doesn't take people long to black out the horrible memory of Derek Anderson being here.

I'm not sure how you can state that Kevin Kolb can "take this team places" as if it were fact.

I don't think I have ever seen a worse performance during a season by a qb and I'm one of the oldest posters on the Board.

Orton would be a major improvement for sure. Remember that we are playing in a very weak conference ( NFC West) and don't need a super star QB to win it.

 

[Mulli]

The Orton who threw 18 TDs against 12 INTs when he had the least-talented offense around him that I can remember in Chicago?

I guess it doesn't take people long to black out the horrible memory of Derek Anderson being here.

I'm not sure how you can state that Kevin Kolb can "take this team places" as if it were fact.

Interesting stat: Orton's yards per attempt that year was 6.4 DA's last year 6.3.

Edit: attempt not completion

 

[desertdawg]

The Orton who threw 18 TDs against 12 INTs when he had the least-talented offense around him that I can remember in Chicago?

I guess it doesn't take people long to black out the horrible memory of Derek Anderson being here.

I'm not sure how you can state that Kevin Kolb can "take this team places" as if it were fact.

Bears also had one of the best defenses.

No need to compare to DA, we can do better than both he and Orton homie.

I can't state anybody "will" take this teams places, you got me on that. But who is more likely to can be debated, but it's still lockout so I was just giving my opinion. We could do worse than Orton, if that's what you mean.

 

[Mulli]

Depending on the price, of course, I should be able to get behind most of the QB's mentioned lately (those not named Max Hall and DA).

 

[TheCardFan]

Interesting stat: Orton's yards per completion that year was 6.4 DA's last year 6.3.

You mean yards per attempt vs completion.

Last 2 years were 7.0 and 7.2

Brees was 7.0 down from 8.0 and 8.5 the last 2 years.

Brady is 7.9 and 7.8 the last 2 yrs.

 

[Mulli]

You mean yards per attempt vs completion.

Last 2 years were 7.0 and 7.2

Brees was 7.0 down from 8.0 and 8.5 the last 2 years.

Brady is 7.9 and 7.8 the last 2 yrs.

I think I meant that Orton was the ultimate dinker and dunker in Chicago, if I recall correctly.

 

[kerouac9]

Bears also had one of the best defenses.

No need to compare to DA, we can do better than both he and Orton homie.

I can't state anybody "will" take this teams places, you got me on that. But who is more likely to can be debated, but it's still lockout so I was just giving my opinion. We could do worse than Orton, if that's what you mean.

I'm not writing off any of Orton's weaknesses. Heck, I'll list them:

He's an uninspiring field general.
He shirks in the spotlight and under presssure
He isn't able to consistently stay healthy
He's never lead anyone anywhere

But Orton would be a huge upgrade over what we have, and would be a better middle-term option than Marc Bulger, IMO. None of Orton's drawbacks are anything that should keep him from helping the Cards win the NFC West. None of the QBs available save maybe Palmer have the ability to lead the Cards back to the Super Bowl, but all of them have the ability to help win the division.

If you are certain (not you, but the generalized "you") believe that Kevin Kolb can become a Top 10 NFL QB, then give up the necessary picks to get him. I'll disagree with the evaluation, but reasonable people can.

But these people who say that guys like Palmer, Orton, and Bulger just aren't good enough to play for this team? Makes no sense to me. All of them are considerably better than the less-than-zeroes we had starting this season.

The issue for me is what each player will cost to acquire, because I think that all of them have a 60% chance of leading us to 9-7 and the playoffs.

 

[Mulli]

I'm not writing off any of Orton's weaknesses. Heck, I'll list them:

He's an uninspiring field general.
He shirks in the spotlight and under presssure
He isn't able to consistently stay healthy
He's never lead anyone anywhere

But Orton would be a huge upgrade over what we have, and would be a better middle-term option than Marc Bulger, IMO. None of Orton's drawbacks are anything that should keep him from helping the Cards win the NFC West. None of the QBs available save maybe Palmer have the ability to lead the Cards back to the Super Bowl, but all of them have the ability to help win the division.

If you are certain (not you, but the generalized "you") believe that Kevin Kolb can become a Top 10 NFL QB, then give up the necessary picks to get him. I'll disagree with the evaluation, but reasonable people can.

But these people who say that guys like Palmer, Orton, and Bulger just aren't good enough to play for this team? Makes no sense to me. All of them are considerably better than the less-than-zeroes we had starting this season.

The issue for me is what each player will cost to acquire, because I think that all of them have a 60% chance of leading us to 9-7 and the playoffs.

Well said. Since I have been convinced Kolb is the real deal, he probably isn't.

 

[desertdawg]

If you are certain (not you, but the generalized "you") believe that Kevin Kolb can become a Top 10 NFL QB, then give up the necessary picks to get him. I'll disagree with the evaluation, but reasonable people can.

But these people who say that guys like Palmer, Orton, and Bulger just aren't good enough to play for this team? Makes no sense to me. All of them are considerably better than the less-than-zeroes we had starting this season.

The issue for me is what each player will cost to acquire, because I think that all of them have a 60% chance of leading us to 9-7 and the playoffs.

I feel you, Kolb hasn't taken anyone anywhere but he can make all the throws. I can't say he will be one of the bests but I'd say we can agree that Palmer and Kolb are probably the best choices if we are thinking now and down the road. Bulger will probably be happy rolling as a back up IMO, but if it's a 1 year thing he could probably get us the 8-8 season Kolb probably could, but Kolb would probably be here the next year and probably get better.
Sorry about all them probablys, it's just hard to say who would do what.

Palmer and Kolb, the young Bidwill might just spring for one of these guys. Kolb is easier to get, a little younger, and can get it to Fitz.

I think we are going to go for it sooner than later, Whiz's biological clock is ticking. Maybe I just really hope it's one of those two, but when I did my little method the magic 8 ball still says Kolb.

 

[moklerman]

Was just re-watching the 2010 Broncos/Rams game last night and Orton had the worst 350 yard, 3td/0int performance I've ever seen.

Ridiculous, right? But he is certainly a maddening QB to watch. Very much seems like a guy who's going to put up good stat's yet somehow lead the team to losses.

His TD% of 4.0 compared to Tebow's 6.1% isn't inspiring either. Tebow had a better YPA too(8.0/7.3). And that's from a QB who only completed 50% of his passes.

Not passing the smell test seems so appropriate for Orton. There's just something there that isn't right.

 

[overseascardfan]

Here is how I see our options:

Kevin Kolb

Pros: Young & has NFL arm

Cons: Inexperienced, will cost high draft pick, needs contract extension

Kyle Orton

Pros: Reasonable young, experienced NFL QB, Solid pro numbers, compensation is less than Kolb

Cons: Injury prone?, leadership questions, can be inconsistent at times

Carson Palmer

Pros: Top 10 NFL QB, arm stregth, consistent, leader

Cons: Will cost a 2nd round pick, medical history

Donovan McNabb

Pros: Arm strength, leadership, mobility, may come cheap

Cons: On the decline, age, ability to run hurry up offense

Marc Bulger

Pros: Cheap, quick release, accuracy, experienced

Cons: Injury prone, old, no mobility, on the decline

Matt Hasselbeck

Pros: Leader, productive QB, leaves SEA with Charlie Whitehurst

Cons: On the decline, old, injury prone



If these are our options I think going with either McNabb/Bulger or Hasselbeck are the way to go. We get them cheap, do not give up a draft pick & if we are terrible we are in the Luck sweepstakes. Plus all three are a better alternative than keeping DA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here is how I see our options:

Kevin Kolb

Pros: Young & has NFL arm

Cons: Inexperienced, will cost high draft pick, needs contract extension

Kyle Orton

Pros: Reasonable young, experienced NFL QB, Solid pro numbers, compensation is less than Kolb

Cons: Injury prone?, leadership questions, can be inconsistent at times

Carson Palmer

Pros: Top 10 NFL QB, arm stregth, consistent, leader

Cons: Will cost a 2nd round pick, medical history

Donovan McNabb

Pros: Arm strength, leadership, mobility, may come cheap

Cons: On the decline, age, ability to run hurry up offense

Marc Bulger

Pros: Cheap, quick release, accuracy, experienced

Cons: Injury prone, old, no mobility, on the decline

Matt Hasselbeck

Pros: Leader, productive QB, leaves SEA with Charlie Whitehurst

Cons: On the decline, old, injury prone



If these are our options I think going with either McNabb/Bulger or Hasselbeck are the way to go. We get them cheap, do not give up a draft pick & if we are terrible we are in the Luck sweepstakes. Plus all three are a better alternative than keeping DA.

no way in hell... "we get them cheap" you get what you pay for. and you contradict yourself here... you say they'll all be better than DA yet say we'll be in the Lucky sweepstakes... which just isn't true. The only way you're in the Luck sweepstakes is if you're literally the worst, most talentless team in the league. A) we're not the most talentless team in the league and B) we play in the worst division in football. All that equals at least 4 or 5 wins and that means no first pick.

think about it... the Panthers were so horrific because a) they have very little talent and b) they play in a tough as nail division.

 

[DoTheDew]

no way in hell... "we get them cheap" you get what you pay for. and you contradict yourself here... you say they'll all be better than DA yet say we'll be in the Lucky sweepstakes... which just isn't true. The only way you're in the Luck sweepstakes is if you're literally the worst, most talentless team in the league. A) we're not the most talentless team in the league and B) we play in the worst division in football. All that equals at least 4 or 5 wins and that means no first pick.

think about it... the Panthers were so horrific because a) they have very little talent and b) they play in a tough as nail division.

C) you get plagued by injuries. That's the variable that can never be accounted for.

As for the NFCW, one of these days it will be a competitive division. Will it be this year? Unlikely but it's plausible. St. Louis SHOULD be a 9-7 or better team. Seattle who knows with new QB and rookie OL probably not. SF with a new HC and probably starting a rookie QB it is unlikely but maybe their defense carries them. And us? If we get a good QB we can easily go back to being a 10-6 team.

 

[DoTheDew]

FWIW

ESPN's Chris Mortensen is "pretty positive" that the Broncos will end up trading Kyle Orton this year.
The only true vacancies are in Arizona and D.C., though Orton could be brought in for competition in Miami, Seattle, Minnesota, Tennessee, Carolina, and Cincinnati. Mort is guessing that a third- to fifth-round pick would do the trick. May 6, 12:43 PM

And contract details:

8/19/2010: Signed a two-year, $11.621 million contract. The deal contains $5.499 million guaranteed, including $2.879 million of his second-year base salary. 2011: $7.379 million (+ $1.5 million roster bonus), 2012: Free Agent

It is realistically possible at those numbers to trade for Orton and sign Bulger to a $3.5 mill one year contract to be backup (he signed a deal worth $3.8 mill last year) and let the two and Skelton compete. It wouldn't be as good as getting Palmer or arguably Kolb, but the draft pick cost is much lower and the competition with other teams is likely much lower too. Best part would be that we'd have 3 QBs with starting experience so our crappy OL wouldn't be quite as big a problem.

 

[desertdawg]

More and more folks are thinking it's Kolb now.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26676/schefter-cardinals-are-favorites-for-kolb

 

[Cards Czar]

If one trades for Palmer, we would be picking up the remaining four years of his 11M per year contract, from what I've read.

Palmer's remaining contract details:

2011 - 11.5 M
2012 - 11.5 M
2013 - 13.0 M
2014 - 14.0 M
2015 - FA

Total Remaining: 50 Mil

 

[BigRedFan]

Kolb was the starter in college since he was a true freshmen, was a Davy O'Brien finalist twice and a Maxwell award finalist 3 times...it's not like he had one undistinguished year playing football in college.

Ok I was wrong, I see he's from Houston from 2003-2006 thats why I hadn't heard of him. I dont think he is a bad QB, just don't want to invest a lot unless we're sure we want him as QBOF (even then a 1st and top player is still way too much), and not just because he might be better than Bulger or whoever in the meantime.

 

[Pariah]

Palmer's remaining contract details:

2011 - 11.5 M
2012 - 11.5 M
2013 - 13.0 M
2014 - 14.0 M
2015 - FA

Total Remaining: 50 Mil

That actually seems really reasonable...if he hold up his end of the bargain and plays like an NFL starting QB.

 

[Chopper0080]

Kyle Orton is a good QB that you will always try to replace (ala Trent Dilfer) but you know what you are getting with the picks that you will have to trade for him. He is decent is almost every aspect of the game. He is also the perfect QB to bridge your team to a drafted and developed QB like John Skelton. He may not be the answer, but for the cost, he may be the best value and you certainly know exactly what you will be getting. I can't say the same for Carson Palmer or Kevin Kolb.

Palmer has the pedigree, but is not the same QB that he was before his injury and seems to have lost his passion for the game. I can't say that he can't get that passion back, but banking your teams hopes on a guy who is willing to walk away from 11 million dollars and the game of football is a lot riskier than many are making it out to be. Most people in the sport of football say that without passion and drive, you can't be successful in the NFL. I can't guarantee that Carson still has either.

Kevin Kolb would be a wonderful option if it didn't look like you had to pay a first round pick for a guy who hasn't shown much in the league. The only season that he started, he got injured (behind a line many would consider better than ours) and was never able to win his job back. I understand that there were other circumstances in that situation, but it happened none the less. I also question his ability to be productive in a different system than Andy Reid's. He is the biggest risk that could end up being the best of the bunch. Not bad, we just have to be willing to bet our coaching staff on it.

 

[overseascardfan]

no way in hell... "we get them cheap" you get what you pay for. and you contradict yourself here... you say they'll all be better than DA yet say we'll be in the Lucky sweepstakes... which just isn't true. The only way you're in the Luck sweepstakes is if you're literally the worst, most talentless team in the league. A) we're not the most talentless team in the league and B) we play in the worst division in football. All that equals at least 4 or 5 wins and that means no first pick.

think about it... the Panthers were so horrific because a) they have very little talent and b) they play in a tough as nail division.

I said that worst case scenario they are terrible and we end up in the Luck sweepstakes. Without a starting QB we could be the worst team in the league. Think about it our OL is terrible and no additions have been made. We don't have any proven pass rushers and Porter is over the hill and there are no FA's that will help us.

So to recap:

No QB
Below average OL
No pass rush

We could be in trouble. You think Kolb is the savior you may be in for a surprise. Those picks we give up could really help. Kurt Warner was considered finished but he turned out fine. McNabb, Bulger & Hasselbeck will be "cheaper" than Kolb, Orton & Palmer (who may not even be available).