Name three Suns with the worst +/- stat this season

Chris_Sanders

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I noticed the person that posted this only has 7 posts. Maybe a drive by posting. LOL.
So, I looked it up but it does include guys no longer here.

Putting this in Spoiler tags in case people still want to play.

Players+/-
Kevin Durant15.3
Cameron Johnson5.7
Devin Booker4.2
T.J. Warren4.2
Jock Landale2.2
Ish Wainright1.8
Cameron Payne1.6
Damion Lee1.4
Josh Okogie1.4
Chris Paul0.8
Mikal Bridges0.8
Bismack Biyombo0.6
Landry Shamet0.5
Duane Washington Jr.-0.2
Saben Lee-0.5
Deandre Ayton-0.6
Dario Saric-0.8
Terrence Ross-1.2
Torrey Craig-3
Darius Bazley-4.4

That must be an average plus minus to get the fractions instead of a cumulative.
 

AzStevenCal

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But his stats were so good last year and he's top 5 at his position :sarcasm:
Being a bad team for any reason depresses everyone's plus/minus. Being a bad team when you are missing several key players just makes it that much worse. I wouldn't judge DA off those numbers, I'd judge him more on the eye test which he's failed probably 50% of the time this season.
 

95pro

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Being a bad team for any reason depresses everyone's plus/minus. Being a bad team when you are missing several key players just makes it that much worse. I wouldn't judge DA off those numbers, I'd judge him more on the eye test which he's failed probably 50% of the time this season.

He fails my eye test more than 50%. Major analysts see it too. So frustrating.
 

Hoop Head

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He fails my eye test more than 50%. Major analysts see it too. So frustrating.

That makes me think of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry dated the girl who was a 10 in good lighting but like a 4 in bad lighting. That's Ayton for yeah, great or awful. This season he hasn't been average nearly as much as in the past.
 

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That makes me think of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry dated the girl who was a 10 in good lighting but like a 4 in bad lighting. That's Ayton for yeah, great or awful. This season he hasn't been average nearly as much as in the past.

I remember that episode. The good Ayton makes an appearance in just about every game. Those minutes where he plays at a 10 can be the difference maker.
 

Proximo

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With Ayton I really think it's about matchups. There are some teams he is very important to play, and others where he is a liability - and yes his own level of play varies quite a bit.

What I mean is his defense is very valuable in some situations, the difference with the top Centers is they are forces offensively, and he is not. His shot creation is pretty bad.

I still believe he could figure that out, but at this point in his career it does seem less and less likely.

One thing I have come to believe though is a players situation has a lot to do with how they play. Two examples that come to mind this season are Mikal and Laurie Markkanan. A player has to believe and accept being a goto option before they will become one, and I don't think Ayton has ever felt that.
 

ASUCHRIS

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With Ayton I really think it's about matchups. There are some teams he is very important to play, and others where he is a liability - and yes his own level of play varies quite a bit.

What I mean is his defense is very valuable in some situations, the difference with the top Centers is they are forces offensively, and he is not. His shot creation is pretty bad.

I still believe he could figure that out, but at this point in his career it does seem less and less likely.

One thing I have come to believe though is a players situation has a lot to do with how they play. Two examples that come to mind this season are Mikal and Laurie Markkanan. A player has to believe and accept being a goto option before they will become one, and I don't think Ayton has ever felt that.
Put Book's brain in Ayton, and he's an all timer. Put Ayton's brain in Booker, and I doubt he makes the league.
 

Phrazbit

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I noticed the person that posted this only has 7 posts. Maybe a drive by posting. LOL.
So, I looked it up but it does include guys no longer here.

Putting this in Spoiler tags in case people still want to play.

Players+/-
Kevin Durant15.3
Cameron Johnson5.7
Devin Booker4.2
T.J. Warren4.2
Jock Landale2.2
Ish Wainright1.8
Cameron Payne1.6
Damion Lee1.4
Josh Okogie1.4
Chris Paul0.8
Mikal Bridges0.8
Bismack Biyombo0.6
Landry Shamet0.5
Duane Washington Jr.-0.2
Saben Lee-0.5
Deandre Ayton-0.6
Dario Saric-0.8
Terrence Ross-1.2
Torrey Craig-3
Darius Bazley-4.4

I think he meant in total, not the average.

But that does put the wrap on 2 names. Curious of the bottom guys who played enough to be third.
 

Cheesebeef

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With Ayton I really think it's about matchups. There are some teams he is very important to play, and others where he is a liability - and yes his own level of play varies quite a bit.

What I mean is his defense is very valuable in some situations, the difference with the top Centers is they are forces offensively, and he is not. His shot creation is pretty bad.

I still believe he could figure that out, but at this point in his career it does seem less and less likely.

One thing I have come to believe though is a players situation has a lot to do with how they play. Two examples that come to mind this season are Mikal and Laurie Markkanan. A player has to believe and accept being a goto option before they will become one, and I don't think Ayton has ever felt that.
Brook Lopez gives me hope too. He was mostly a stat-padder when he was successful early in his career. Then a total journeyman bouncing from team to team. And now he's one of the most important pieces of a title winning and continuing contending team, having remade himself into a very very good defensive player.
 

Phrazbit

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The difference between Ayton this year and the previous 2 is his defensive effort. While his offense was inconsistent he used to consistent show up on D, quick in his rotations, great at stopping penetration from reaching the rim, ect. This year he hasn't been the same guy on that end, his defensive effort has typically coincided with games where he is good on offense and when he's been disengaged he's been totally disengaged.

A lot of that came when the 70% of the team was injured and we were getting wrecked night in and night out, but if he wants to be the star he claims he can, he should be stepping up in this situations, not rolling over.

Crowder being gone has hurt too, they communicated really well on defense and were great at helping each other, Ayton and Craig don't have that rapport.
 

Covert Rain

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Here is the info by totals:

Player+/-
Devin Booker202
Jock Landale144
Damion Lee101
Ish Wainright100
Cameron Johnson97
Josh Okogie93
Cameron Payne67
T.J. Warren50
Kevin Durant46
Chris Paul45
Mikal Bridges43
Bismack Biyombo33
Landry Shamet16
Duane Washington Jr.-6
Saben Lee-9
Terrence Ross-17
Darius Bazley-22
Dario Saric-28
Deandre Ayton-40
Torrey Craig-215
 

Phrazbit

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Here is the info by totals:

Player+/-
Devin Booker202
Jock Landale144
Damion Lee101
Ish Wainright100
Cameron Johnson97
Josh Okogie93
Cameron Payne67
T.J. Warren50
Kevin Durant46
Chris Paul45
Mikal Bridges43
Bismack Biyombo33
Landry Shamet16
Duane Washington Jr.-6
Saben Lee-9
Terrence Ross-17
Darius Bazley-22
Dario Saric-28
Deandre Ayton-40
Torrey Craig-215

Yikes Torrey. Maybe I don't want you to get the starting spot when KD gets back.

And Bazley... dude has put in work.

Good for Cam Payne. I get why people get so frustrated with him, when his shot is off it is waaaaaaaaaay off and his crazy runner shots look really silly when they don't drop, but he is one of the best playmaking reserve guards in the league, lots of assists, few turnovers and his defensive effort is always there.
 
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djm75

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Sorry, guys, I was away from the forum for a while, had to watch the Jazz game and not catch any spoilers (I watch them recorded).

I gotta say thank you for participating and hey, a lot of good guesses!

Not taking into account the last game, the bottom 3 looks like this:
#3 Shamet
#2 Ayton
#1 Craig

Kudos to AzStevenCal, who got it perfect!
 

Covert Rain

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Sorry, guys, I was away from the forum for a while, had to watch the Jazz game and not catch any spoilers (I watch them recorded).

I gotta say thank you for participating and hey, a lot of good guesses!

Not taking into account the last game, the bottom 3 looks like this:
#3 Shamet
#2 Ayton
#1 Craig

Kudos to AzStevenCal, who got it perfect!
It's Craig, Ayton, Bazley are the bottom 3 followed by Ross, Lee, then Shamet.
 

Covert Rain

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Bazley, Ross and Lee don’t meet the 300 minutes played requirement
Gotcha. You added that later. I was looking at your original post. Although I would have still counted Lee. He is 8.1 minutes short. Seems arbitrary to exclude him.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Here is the info by totals:

Player+/-
Devin Booker202
Jock Landale144
Damion Lee101
Ish Wainright100
Cameron Johnson97
Josh Okogie93
Cameron Payne67
T.J. Warren50
Kevin Durant46
Chris Paul45
Mikal Bridges43
Bismack Biyombo33
Landry Shamet16
Duane Washington Jr.-6
Saben Lee-9
Terrence Ross-17
Darius Bazley-22
Dario Saric-28
Deandre Ayton-40
Torrey Craig-215
WTF Torrey Craig?!?
 

DJ Tabooh

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Brook Lopez gives me hope too. He was mostly a stat-padder when he was successful early in his career. Then a total journeyman bouncing from team to team. And now he's one of the most important pieces of a title winning and continuing contending team, having remade himself into a very very good defensive player.
So good that he’s the favorite to win DPOY along with JJJ.
 

Sparky16

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With Ayton I really think it's about matchups. There are some teams he is very important to play, and others where he is a liability - and yes his own level of play varies quite a bit.

What I mean is his defense is very valuable in some situations, the difference with the top Centers is they are forces offensively, and he is not. His shot creation is pretty bad.

I still believe he could figure that out, but at this point in his career it does seem less and less likely.

One thing I have come to believe though is a players situation has a lot to do with how they play. Two examples that come to mind this season are Mikal and Laurie Markkanan. A player has to believe and accept being a goto option before they will become one, and I don't think Ayton has ever felt that.
Sounds like a Max Salary and top 5 at position player..... NOT
 
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djm75

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It's no coincidence that Ayton is #1 in fouls, Craig is #2. To add insult to injury Ayton is #2 on the team in turnovers. Craig is #6 in Turnovers.
Probably not a good idea to look at the total numbers.

Looking at fouls per minute, Ayton is #8, Craig is #12, the fouling machines are Baz, Biz and Ross.

Looking at TOVs per minute,
Ayton is #8, Craig is #14, turnover machines are Baz, Payne and Book.
 
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