Monty Williams Fired (Hired by Detroit)

[AzStevenCal]

With Ayton, whether he has a chance to live up to his #1 rating doesn't matter. We need to win right now, and not be concerned with 3-4 years from now what he can be if he 'gets it'.

Many guys like that, never 'get it'. The die seems fairly cast. He doesn't have to play for a contract for the next few years.

I'd rather look at it like this. Ayton's trade value is already on a downward trend, and in the future is likely to never be higher than it is now. (aside from expiring contract purposes heading into/trade deadline of last year)

It's a pretty big risk to not get rid of him. At this point, I'd take a trash-expiring 2024 contract for him.

In a normal situation I'd agree with this but we aren't in a normal situation. We need to win a championship in the next 2 years and we lack the overall talent to do it. We don't have picks to trade away and we don't have the cap space to seriously upgrade even the end of bench players. If we don't get close to number one pick value out of Ayton either on the court or in trade, I don't see how we can raise the talent level to contender status.

 

[Yuma]

In a normal situation I'd agree with this but we aren't in a normal situation. We need to win a championship in the next 2 years and we lack the overall talent to do it. We don't have picks to trade away and we don't have the cap space to seriously upgrade even the end of bench players. If we don't get close to number one pick value out of Ayton either on the court or in trade, I don't see how we can raise the talent level to contender status.

What do you mean by number one pick value? do you mean another player picked number one? An amount of players that add up to the value of a number one player? We are not going to get three players and four first round picks for him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I've been frustrated with Monty for a long time, and I am happy to see the Suns move on. That said, he is a great guy, and he was exactly what the Suns needed when they hired him. He did a great job taking a crappy team and helping turn them into a very good team. I am thankful to Monty and wish him nothing but success in the future.

This. He drove me crazy, but he seems genuinely a good man and he helped take our team outta the decade of crap.

 

[Mainstreet]

Mat Ishbia has fully taken over the Suns basketball operations.


By Adrian Wojnarowski, Senior NBA Insider, May 13, 2023, 09:43 PM ET, ESPN:


Ishbia has fully taken over the franchise's basketball operations, including the negotiation of the February trade for Kevin Durant and now the dismissal of Williams. Suns general manager James Jones called Williams on Saturday night and delivered the news to him, sources said.

Ishbia had never warmed to Williams as his coach and decided quickly after Thursday night's loss to the Denver Nuggets in Game 6 of the conference semifinals that he would fire him, sources said.

Phoenix Suns fire coach Monty Williams after four seasons

Monty Williams, who spent four seasons as the Suns' head coach, was fired on Saturday night, the team announced.

www.espn.com

 

[AzStevenCal]

What do you mean by number one pick value? do you mean another player picked number one? An amount of players that add up to the value of a number one player? We are not going to get three players and four first round picks for him.

It isn't a hard and fast thing but losing him for nothing, losing him for an Okogie clone, losing him for 2 Damion Lees, losing him for an expired contract etc. seals our fate IMO. If we can get another player that you wouldn't be embarrassed that your team drafted him with a very high pick, then that's enough value. If you can trade him for 2 players that you'd want in your 7 man rotation, then that's enough value.

But one way or another, we need good value out of him and with his contract I think it's more likely that he can give us that value on the court than some other team will trade for him. Right now, he has less value than his contract and the new CBA rules make him a much less desirable trade target than he would have been just a few months ago. JMO.

 

[Covert Rain]

My guess is the reason James Jones still has a job and Monty doesn’t is because Sarver was yanking the leash on many things James wanted to do. lshbia could easily verify that. If it was a scenario where JJ had free reign I would imagine he would be gone too.

 

[Yuma]

My guess is the reason James Jones still has a job and Monty doesn’t is because Sarver was yanking the leash on many things James wanted to do. lshbia could easily verify that. If it was a scenario where JJ had free reign I would imagine he would be gone too.

That. And James Jones was willing to help Ishbia on the Durant trade right away. If you help your new boss, they may just keep you around.

 

[Mainstreet]

That. And James Jones was willing to help Ishbia on the Durant trade right away. If you help your new boss, they may just keep you around.

I think James Jones had been working on trading for Kevin Durant all season.

The difference from my perspective, Mat Ishbia was willing to give the Nets everything they wanted. My belief is Jones wanted to keep Bridges.

 

[GatorAZ]

This team will have a completely different vibe without Monty, CP and DA. It’s exciting to think about.

I think they need to reconstruct this team around getting the most out of a twilight career’d KD. Book is great in any system.

 

[Hoop Head]

Mat Ishbia has fully taken over the Suns basketball operations.


By Adrian Wojnarowski, Senior NBA Insider, May 13, 2023, 09:43 PM ET, ESPN:


Ishbia has fully taken over the franchise's basketball operations, including the negotiation of the February trade for Kevin Durant and now the dismissal of Williams. Suns general manager James Jones called Williams on Saturday night and delivered the news to him, sources said.

Ishbia had never warmed to Williams as his coach and decided quickly after Thursday night's loss to the Denver Nuggets in Game 6 of the conference semifinals that he would fire him, sources said.

Phoenix Suns fire coach Monty Williams after four seasons

Monty Williams, who spent four seasons as the Suns' head coach, was fired on Saturday night, the team announced.

www.espn.com

Meddlesome owners aren't generally a good thing. I know Ishbia has more basketball experience than most owners but he also didn't make a career out of his BB knowledge. I don't dislike this news but I don't like it either. Definitely not Sarver, that much is certain.

 

[Yuma]

It isn't a hard and fast thing but losing him for nothing, losing him for an Okogie clone, losing him for 2 Damion Lees, losing him for an expired contract etc. seals our fate IMO. If we can get another player that you wouldn't be embarrassed that your team drafted him with a very high pick, then that's enough value. If you can trade him for 2 players that you'd want in your 7 man rotation, then that's enough value.

But one way or another, we need good value out of him and with his contract I think it's more likely that he can give us that value on the court than some other team will trade for him. Right now, he has less value than his contract and the new CBA rules make him a much less desirable trade target than he would have been just a few months ago. JMO.

I agree with your second paragraph 100%. That said, I think we just disagree on value we would get in return.

The losing him for nothing doesn't bother me. I would rather not have to be saddled with more bad players in return.

 

[CardsFan88]

In a normal situation I'd agree with this but we aren't in a normal situation. We need to win a championship in the next 2 years and we lack the overall talent to do it. We don't have picks to trade away and we don't have the cap space to seriously upgrade even the end of bench players. If we don't get close to number one pick value out of Ayton either on the court or in trade, I don't see how we can raise the talent level to contender status.

I just don't see how when it matters, in the playoffs, he can play significant minutes. I think at this point we need to get whatever flexibility we can from him and move on.

I don't know if you mean use future picks/swaps to trade him, or if you mean we don't have anybody of his slotting we can replace him with.

To build our team, I do think we can be creative. We can buy picks. We can use exceptions. In a trade of Ayton, it's possible to get an expiring contract back. One which then, itself can be flipped for a player mid-season (or picks, which then can be kept or traded). We can be a part of three team trades. We have some Saric space to add to any trade.

I also think there's hope of getting some cheap deals too. But it's hard to tell how much pull we might have now that $arver isn't here. Ishbia might start to create that Colangelo-style effect. Great owner. Great weather. Book and Durant. That's a great selling point. We'll see how far this goes with our MLE.

Paul is also an expiring contract. So there's value there too.

We don't need a 3rd star. It would be great. But a couple of willing, consistent scorers/shot-creators would put us in a better place. Book and Durant willed the team down 0-2 without a starter-level PG, Ayton, or much of anyone else.

It's going to be interesting.

 

[Hoop Head]

I agree with your second paragraph 100%. That said, I think we just disagree on value we would get in return.

The losing him for nothing doesn't bother me. I would rather not have to be saddled with more bad players in return.

I get the thought process but I think you'd feel different opening night. There's some recency bias in your comment. Trust me, I get it. I want him gone yesterday but we need something of some value in return.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree with your second paragraph 100%. That said, I think we just disagree on value we would get in return.

The losing him for nothing doesn't bother me. I would rather not have to be saddled with more bad players in return.

The losing him for nothing wouldn't bother me either if we still had a snowball's chance of building a true contender in the short KD era. But I don't think we do. We need a minor miracle, and with the limitations of the new CBA, I don't see another possibility. How do you see us putting a true number 3 on the court without getting serious value out of this asset?

 

[Yuma]

I get the thought process but I think you'd feel different opening night. There's some recency bias in your comment. Trust me, I get it. I want him gone yesterday but we need something of some value in return.

Actually, I thought we shouldn't have matched Indy. That would have freed cap space, and would have been addition by subtraction. I think sometimes you need to quit digging a whole on mistakes. I figured the way the series went, I was already writing Ayton off. Oddly, I was not even bothered he didn't play. Just resigned to it.

 

[Mainstreet]

The losing him for nothing wouldn't bother me either if we still had a snowball's chance of building a true contender in the short KD era. But I don't think we do. We need a minor miracle, and with the limitations of the new CBA, I don't see another possibility. How do you see us putting a true number 3 on the court without getting serious value out of this asset?

Hopefully Mat Ishbia has connections in Europe and buys some extra 2nd round picks or finds some undrafted free agents.

 

[Hoop Head]

Actually, I thought we shouldn't have matched Indy. That would have freed cap space, and would have been addition by subtraction. I think sometimes you need to quit digging a whole on mistakes. I figured the way the series went, I was already writing Ayton off. Oddly, I was not even bothered he didn't play. Just resigned to it.

We were over the cap already so we wouldn't have gained cap space. That's where the intricacies of the CBA come into play. Had it been him or $30 million in cap space, I'd choose cap space easily but since we're so after the cap that isn't the issue. It's quite literally him or nothing given our financial status.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I imagine that you assume there is some other coach who would’ve outperformed Monty Williams each of those years.

Obviously this cannot be known. But the suns have never had a lead in the finals nor won 64 regular season games in their history before Monty Williams.

I doubt Steve Kerr or Greg poopyvich would’ve done any better than Williams. Maybe they would’ve had more respectable losses at the end.

Pop would’ve won at least one championship. Maybe Kerr as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The losing him for nothing wouldn't bother me either if we still had a snowball's chance of building a true contender in the short KD era. But I don't think we do. We need a minor miracle, and with the limitations of the new CBA, I don't see another possibility. How do you see us putting a true number 3 on the court without getting serious value out of this asset?

Do we need a “true number 3”? Or do we just need much better depth and role players? The Celtics don’t have a true number 3. Right now, the Heat don’t have a true number 3.

Now, Denver does have a pretty solid 3 with Porter/Gordon being able to flip flop there, but even with just our big 2 and basically nothing else, we still took a couple games off them.

The Bucks definitely have a Big 3 but outside of our choke job on the Finals, they’re the biggest chokers in the league.

The Sixers have a pretty good Big 3, but Harden may not stick there this year.

I’m just not sure you need the trifecta anymore as much as you just need legit NBA players around KD/Booker. And likely, they’re gonna be somewhat gambles the same way DeAngelo Russel was for the Lakers.

And hopefully better coaching to go along with them.

 

[Yuma]

We were over the cap already so we wouldn't have gained cap space. That's where the intricacies of the CBA come into play. Had it been him or $30 million in cap space, I'd choose cap space easily but since we're so after the cap that isn't the issue. It's quite literally him or nothing given our financial status.

True. But also extending him lead to being on the hook for many years. That's what I meant by cap space. I was thinking for the duration of his contract. Not just this last season.

 

[AZ Native]

Hopefully Mat Ishbia has connections in Europe and buys some extra 2nd round picks or finds some undrafted free agents.

Well, he had only 11 employees when he started in the operations division. He learned the ins and outs of the business and took over for his father, becoming CEO in 2013. In only 9 years, Mat grew the company to 7,000 employees. He seems to have a little drive and determination.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well, he had only 11 employees when he started in the operations division. He learned the ins and outs of the business and took over for his father, becoming CEO in 2013. In only 9 years, Mat grew the company to 7,000 employees. He seems to have a little drive and determination.

I was looking more at finding some cheap talent like the good old days when the Suns found Goran Dragic in the 2nd round.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's a business. We still love you, Monty.

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[Weenus O'Baggins]

My buddy just suggested that we hire Bobby Hurley

See this is why ASFN is smarter than the average fan.

I responded "So you want crappier Kingsbury?"

 

[Hoop Head]

Well, he had only 11 employees when he started in the operations division. He learned the ins and outs of the business and took over for his father, becoming CEO in 2013. In only 9 years, Mat grew the company to 7,000 employees. He seems to have a little drive and determination.

All NBA owners are driven and determined. Michael Jordan is an owner and has done a pretty poor job as that and general manager before buying the team. I don't think there's an NBA owner with drive and competitiveness than MJ but the Hornets suck. I'm not saying Ishbia is a failure, far too early for that, but sports ownership is a different beast entirely.