Monty Williams Fired (Hired by Detroit)

BirdGangThing

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Yeah I caught it. Going to ignore childish grudges. Many of us on here disagree and we are cool 10 minutes later.
Why does everyone set trip on me for calling covert a genius yet he gets to repeatedly call me childish (simply because I don't want to talk to him) at every turn?? Not just this post but in most of his posts directed at me, at least I deleted mine - wth
 

Finito

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I don't mean this as an "I told you so" but a couple of us have talked about Monty's history of personnel clashes in his pre-Suns days. And I've never bought the "nice guy" reputation either. He's an autocrat even though he knows the right things to say when he's holding the microphone. If you're his kind of people, you'll love him but otherwise, you'll feel like an outsider.

I don't know how much our collapses and disappointments were on him but we all saw him ignoring players that could help even when the need was great. All you have to do is look at our winning streak when Frank was playing minutes due to injuries or when Jalen Smith was tearing it up when Monty was out with Covid. Both of those guys were invisible (or mis-used) when Monty returned.

Yeah what people think he is and what he is are two very different things. I brought up earlier before Monty got fired my boy had told me Monty had become the cancer on this team. He also told me the whole Ayton situation is on Monty. Ayton had no interest in playing for him anymore. Monty goes out of his way to disrespect him.

You brought up Stix that kid looked like he could be a real contributor and as soon as Monty got back it was back to the bench. His obsession with guys who don’t deserve it is fascinating everybody remembers Abdel Nadar and now we are in the Shamet era.

I think a lot of stuff is going to come out about locker room issues and Monty Williams
 

Finito

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The cracks in the armor were there. His repeated issues with Ayton, word it didn't like coaching guys like McGee, Crowder.....there were signs with us as as you stated. Then top it off with forced feeding guys that were not playing well? That makes sense.

McGee is interesting for all the BS the media(mostly Shaq) created around him he’s pretty much universally loved by all his former teammates. Everyone says nothing but great things about him.

When the Crowder thing was happening you didn’t hear one player say anything bad about Crowder matter fact several said they supported his decision and understood
 

Covert Rain

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Why does everyone set trip on me for calling covert a genius yet he gets to repeatedly call me childish (simply because I don't want to talk to him) at every turn?? Not just this post but in most of his posts directed at me, at least I deleted mine - wth
I didn't say you were childish. I said you were holding childish grudges. Also, maybe because most of us around here can disagree and we are cool with each other as soon as it's over? You don't seem to be able to move on and are holding grudges. That's not how most of us roll around here.
 
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BirdGangThing

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I didn't say you were childish. I said you were holding childish grudges. Also, maybe because most of us around here can disagree and we are cool with each other as soon as it's over? You don't seem to be able to move on and are holding grudges. That's not how most of us role around here.
And I do all that with literally everybody else on this board - just not you
 

Covert Rain

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And I do all that with literally everybody else on this board - just not you
So, you consistently hold grudges with anybody that disagrees with you? You do you. I have no animosity towards you.
 

BirdGangThing

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So, you consistently hold grudges with anybody that disagrees with you? You do you. I have no animosity towards you.
Do you understand English? I don't hold grudges with anybody that disagrees with me - just went over that - I'm literally fine with everybody else on this site
 

Covert Rain

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Do you understand English? I don't hold grudges with anybody that disagrees with me - just went over that - I'm literally fine with everybody else on this site
Believe it or not? I am fine with even you. You can't seem to get past it. That's what everyone is picking up on. Putting me ignore might be the best thing for you then.
 

Covert Rain

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McGee is interesting for all the BS the media(mostly Shaq) created around him he’s pretty much universally loved by all his former teammates. Everyone says nothing but great things about him.

When the Crowder thing was happening you didn’t hear one player say anything bad about Crowder matter fact several said they supported his decision and understood
Yep. I think that's what @AzStevenCal was sort of referring to. There were signs. Also, remember that when all this came down? Many players (including Bridges) showed their support for Crowder. I think CP3 said something like "that my guy" or something like that. So, interesting that NONE of what transpired seemed to come from the players.

The worst part is that we really never replaced those pieces. It hurt our bench.
 

Raindog

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Yep. I think that's what @AzStevenCal was sort of referring to. There were signs. Also, remember that when all this came down? Many players (including Bridges) showed their support for Crowder. I think CP3 said something like "that my guy" or something like that. So, interesting that NONE of what transpired seemed to come from the players.

The worst part is that we really never replaced those pieces. It hurt our bench.
And some of that is undoubtedly on James Jones, too. He and Monty were two peas in a pod on lots of those wayward personnel moves.
 

AzStevenCal

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And some of that is undoubtedly on James Jones, too. He and Monty were two peas in a pod on lots of those wayward personnel moves.
I could be wrong but I don't see it that way. To me, JJ kept trying to get the type of players Monty wanted but the Coach would forget about them once they arrived. JJ should have recognized that style of play and ability was less important to Monty than some other things. I suspect had he focused on bringing in nothing but straight arrow devout Christians, I think he'd have better filled Monty's cupboard with usable pieces.
 

BirdGangThing

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I could be wrong but I don't see it that way. To me, JJ kept trying to get the type of players Monty wanted but the Coach would forget about them once they arrived. JJ should have recognized that style of play and ability was less important to Monty than some other things. I suspect had he focused on bringing in nothing but straight arrow devout Christians, I think he'd have better filled Monty's cupboard with usable pieces.
If I remember correctly Monty played both Devin Booker and Kevin Durant more than anybody else in the playoffs and I don't believe either are exactly devout Christians - matter of fact I think Ayton might be the most devout Christian on the roster lol and we saw how that played out
 

Raindog

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I could be wrong but I don't see it that way. To me, JJ kept trying to get the type of players Monty wanted but the Coach would forget about them once they arrived. JJ should have recognized that style of play and ability was less important to Monty than some other things. I suspect had he focused on bringing in nothing but straight arrow devout Christians, I think he'd have better filled Monty's cupboard with usable pieces.
Actually Steve, you are stating exactly what I meant. Jones got Monty his type of players even when those weren't at all helpful to winning... instead of overruling Monty and building a roster that would equal more talent over "character" guys. The Shamet debacle is a perfect example of that.
 

AzStevenCal

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If I remember correctly Monty played both Devin Booker and Kevin Durant more than anybody else in the playoffs and I don't believe either are exactly devout Christians - matter of fact I think Ayton might be the most devout Christian on the roster lol and we saw how that played out
You skipped over the straight arrow part. And he wants conformity and submssion too IMO. I'm sure that isn't all he wants, any coach wants stars too but he has a behavioral line than some players cross and that's it for them. Anyway, whatever he's in search of (and I just gave my best guess as to what that is), he's always been a "my way" only kind of coach.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Every coach plays favorites - it's called a starting line up

Crowder was moved to the bench so the Suns could start and develop Cam Johnson - who they had more invested in and who had a higher ceiling
If a coach bases their starting line up on their favorites, they are a *******! Being a favorite and being the best for the position are not mutually exclusive.
 

Mainstreet

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I could be wrong but I don't see it that way. To me, JJ kept trying to get the type of players Monty wanted but the Coach would forget about them once they arrived. JJ should have recognized that style of play and ability was less important to Monty than some other things. I suspect had he focused on bringing in nothing but straight arrow devout Christians, I think he'd have better filled Monty's cupboard with usable pieces.

Monty was religious and I suspect he liked a certain type of player, but implying he only wanted "straight arrow devout Christians" is a reach.

 

95pro

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Monty was religious and I suspect he liked a certain type of player, but implying he only wanted "straight arrow devout Christians" is a reach.

No i agree with Steve in mostly that Monty wanted guys to act, be, and play a certain way...not necessarily the christian part.
 

Mainstreet

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No i agree with Steve in mostly that Monty wanted guys to act, be, and play a certain way...not necessarily the christian part.

I said "I suspect Monty liked a certain type of player," however, I didn't think it was necessary to try to tie it to religion.
 

AzStevenCal

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No i agree with Steve in mostly that Monty wanted guys to act, be, and play a certain way...not necessarily the christian part.
Yeah the Christian angle was just an example of the type of guys he wants but nothing more than a guess on my part. But it's not that much of a reach IMO. I've known a few coaches that he reminds me of so I know they exist - the ones that ostracize you if you don't pray with them in the locker room before the game.
 

AzStevenCal

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I said "I suspect Monty liked a certain type of player," however, I didn't think it was necessary to try to tie it to religion.
Maybe not for you but since I've experienced something similar in my past, I come at it from a different perspective than you. I know for a fact that there are leaders that think less of non-believers and are more tolerant of mistakes from people that share their faith, it's just a guess on my part based on similar behavior that Monty falls into that camp. It isn't a shot at Christians or religious people in general nor was I implying that all Christians are this way.
 

Mainstreet

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Maybe not for you but since I've experienced something similar in my past, I come at it from a different perspective than you. I know for a fact that there are leaders that think less of non-believers and are more tolerant of mistakes from people that share their faith, it's just a guess on my part based on similar behavior that Monty falls into that camp. It isn't a shot at Christians or religious people in general nor was I implying that all Christians are this way.

Since this is off-topic, I will answer and move on. Someday we will have to discuss it further in the right forum.

If Christians are only hanging out with Christians, they must have missed the part about Jesus hanging out with outcasts.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Maybe not for you but since I've experienced something similar in my past, I come at it from a different perspective than you. I know for a fact that there are leaders that think less of non-believers and are more tolerant of mistakes from people that share their faith, it's just a guess on my part based on similar behavior that Monty falls into that camp. It isn't a shot at Christians or religious people in general nor was I implying that all Christians are this way.
100%. At a prior employer a hiring partner decided to hire a summer associate who was Mormon (so was the hiring partner) despite every single associate that had run, or been invoked in, the summer program speaking out against him being hired, vehemently. We were completely slack jawed when we found out. Several individuals quit running/participating in the summer program and it was the first nudge for me toward my exit.
 
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