Matt Flynn agrees with Seahawks

[TJ]

Your point is totally moot. Obviously, there's NO way Kolb earned an f-tag with his performance last year. If you lose him at least you still have the millions saved and the Cardinals might have gotten Mario Williams with that money instead.

How is my point moot when you started speaking hypothetically about the use of the franchise tag? I'm merely telling you that regardless of Kolb's contract situation, CC does not get an extension.

At this point, you're just talking in circles.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes it is a defense and Shane is entirely right. If Kolb had only been signed for one year and had a good year, you would be all over the FO for not having the foresight to sign him to a multi-year contract.

You have no idea whether anyone else was bidding for Kolb's services, but it makes for a better argument if they weren't, so you assume to the negative. It just drives me nuts that people use hindsight to propel an argument and never stop to realize that that hindsight wasn't available at the time the agreement was proposed.

Did the Cards make a mistake? The jury is still out, but we should know a few games into the season. How about waiting until it is proved either way before you pass judgement?

I was making these same arguments a year ago.

And please, if you think someone else was bidding for Kolb lemme know who. Its very easy to eliminate every team but AZ from the discussion. Its not an "assumption", its deduction and common sense.

And once again, the Cardinals PAID HIM LIKE HE HAD ALREADY PLAYED A GREAT SEASON!!! What risk did they avoid? Having to give him a very similar contract a year later? The RISK was giving an unproven player a very lucrative contract. The Cardinals took a TON of risk.

 

[40yearfan]

I was making these same arguments a year ago.

And please, if you think someone else was bidding for Kolb lemme know who. Its very easy to eliminate every team but AZ from the discussion. Its not an "assumption", its deduction and common sense.

And once again, the Cardinals PAID HIM LIKE HE HAD ALREADY PLAYED A GREAT SEASON!!! What risk did they avoid? Having to give him a very similar contract a year later? The RISK was giving an unproven player a very lucrative contract. The Cardinals took a TON of risk.

Yes they did. Just like any NFL team does with any free agent. They were betting he was the answer and the contract they gave him made that apparent. If he fails, it won't be the first time a free agent has not played up to his pay scale.

The problem is that you have already condemned Kolb to failure and we don't know for a fact that he is. Let's at least give him the benefit of a doubt and a shot at redemption this year. He wasn't the only NFL player with an off-year last year.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes they did. Just like any NFL team does with any free agent. They were betting he was the answer and the contract they gave him made that apparent. If he fails, it won't be the first time a free agent has not played up to his pay scale.

The problem is that you have already condemned Kolb to failure and we don't know for a fact that he is. Let's at least give him the benefit of a doubt and a shot at redemption this year. He wasn't the only NFL player with an off-year last year.

His "off year" was on par with the rest of his career.

And we are talking about his contract, and his contract in relation to what Flynn got on the open market. Seattle payed for an unproven commodity in an open market. The Cardinals payed for an unproven commodity who was NOT in an open market and paid more than double what Seattle did for Flynn.

No matter how you look at it, in hindsight, retrospect, in a time machine going back to last summer or... today. It was an exceptionally stupid contract.

 

[PJ1]

Did it ever occur to you that the FO could have then made the necessary offer to Kolb or CC before using the tag on one of them?

Your logic is weak in this argument. I already told you I was slamming them for the contract---I would not have been slamming them for making that same deal one year later, if as you suggest, Kolb teared it up. Then he would have been proven. And I believe that the FO would have been wise enough to come to terms with CC if it had to use the f-tag on Kolb. They would have had an added $20M+ at their disposal to do so. Think about it.

Well said. I agree with you but it is not an argument you will win. Cards do no wrong to some.

 

[gmabel830]

As an aside, I'm a big fan of the term "f-tag", coined by Mitch.

I'm going to apply the f-tag to Phrazbit every time he knocks Kolb in a post!

 

[Snakester]

As crazy as this may sound, I believe John Skelton has the most upside of any of the QBs in the NFC West. I would rather have him than Flynn, Smith or Bradford (even though I think Bradford could be very good for a long time, barring injury)---but I think Skelton could be even better because he has a stronger arm, is more mobile---and he shows up right when you need him most.

I agree. Skelton should beat out Kolb this preseason for the starters spot. With a full offseason of work he should do a lot better. He has more God given talent than any QB in the division.

 

[Phrazbit]

As an aside, I'm a big fan of the term "f-tag", coined by Mitch.

I'm going to apply the f-tag to Phrazbit every time he knocks Kolb in a post!

Could you call me F-tagbit? It has a nice ring to it.

 

[mojorizen7]

(even though I think Bradford could be very good for a long time, barring injury)---but I think Skelton could be even better because he has a stronger arm, is more mobile---and he shows up right when you need him most.

Really? I dont think so.

Mitch Bradford has yet to be "good" what makes you think he will now with another new O to learn and no weapons at WR.

What do you consider "good?" Rating? W-L record? Yardage?
Rookie year before everything around him began to cave in,leading to last years 2-14 mess.
16 gms
60%
3512 yds
18 tds 16 int's
7-9 record
I think having a QB coach again will be the difference. Despite getting pummeled last year he did develop some some bad habits.
76.5 rating

On topic: It amazes me how these FA QB's are getting paid and handed the car keys with such tiny resumes.

 

[Longcolts]

Well said. I agree with you but it is not an argument you will win. Cards do no wrong to some.

And to others they can do no right.

 

[Phrazbit]

And to others they can do no right.

I like a lot of moves the Cards have made, and some moves I didnt like I can admit it turns out were good choices (like Ray Horton). But this Kolb situation was so freaking dumb on every level. I dont see how it can be defended.

 

[WarnerHOF]

IMO, Flynn is no better than Kolb.

Watched him play in both of his starts and the majority of his big plays were due to bad defense. His arm is a complete noodle and he has a huge reliance on his receivers to gain YAC.

 

[Bodha]

and neither do you. he could be a colossal failure and just made them worse.

Well lets just kick our feet up then and call it a day.




Failing to plan is planning to fail.


You have to assume hes just made them better and we need to make moves to better ourselves.

 

[THESMEL]

I'm not blowing Flynn off, He had 1 game that broke Packers meanifull records, He is better than Jackson and whitehurst, He might be a system QB but Carrol is a system coach.

Matt leinart is better but i can't prove it, yet.

 

[NJCardFan]

You guys dont know anything about Flynn. He might be the best QB in this division now who knows.

Either way this effects us because hes better than Jackson and therefore the Seahawks just got better.



Hope your watching this Graves/Bidwill, everyone around you is getting better.

Flynn has had 1 good game and that was a throw away game in week 17. Funny, based on a few games, some here thought Kolb was the 2nd coming.

 

[Phrazbit]

Flynn has had 1 good game and that was a throw away game in week 17. Funny, based on a few games, some here thought Kolb was the 2nd coming.

To be fair... while Flynn being an All-Pro is a very dubious proposition, Flynn being better than Tavaris Jackson (which is what Bodha stated) is a strong possibility.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

i like this move and this offseason so far

retained lynch, big red and michael robinson ..... a couple key components in running the ball and run defense

signed jones to help provide some interior pass rush

flynn improves the QB position, provides some upside there and really didn't cost much - no draft capital, modest length and guaranteed money ...... flexible deal ..... not sure how good he can be, his track record of throwing the ball (even back to college) is slim ....... from what I've seen he can throw to all parts of the field and can play off the run game pretty well (something jackson is terrible at) ....... my expectations are modest and am not expecting an all pro out of the gate (or maybe even ever) .... but he should be better than jackson while giving the seahawks more time to address the position - jackson can provide the role of solid backup

rewarded a couple lesser known guys on the OL who really stepped up last year and cut a big name OL who had trouble staying healthy and whose main value of mentorship is no longer needed ..... shows that the coaches are willing to cut the emotional ties and reward those who play, regardless of history, name, etc

so far the only things that I haven't liked are atari bigby getting away and leroy hill continuing with fine decision making

PC stated that he wants to upgrade the LB position this year and improve pass rush across the board ........ he wants more speed at LB and better coverage ....... they're sitting on a little over $17M in cap space and there are still some FAs that can make this team better

plus now the draft is wide open ....... they have some definite first round needs, but the board can come to them ...... probably looking LB, DT or OL @ #12 with flexibility to move in either direction

 

[chickenhead]

Outside of Manning there weren't that many moves to be made QB-wise for us. Flynn/Smith/Hasselbeck are possibly marginal upgrades over Kolb at this point. But releasing Kolb would not have guaranteed that we'd have gotten one of those guys.

 

[Houdini]

Flynn reminds me of Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck had no starts when the Packers traded him to Seattle. Hard to say what Flynn will do, but I wouldn't be surprised if he started out slow the first year but later developed into a decent QB like Hasselbeck did.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't know if it's just spin or not, but word from Miami is that Philbin, his former OC who saw him everyday, is/was not all that high on Flynn and didn't think he was worth the big contract. Think about it, they were willing to offer proven mediocrity in Alex Smith $8 mill/year and not make a big offer to Flynn.

Also, I guess all the reports about Clevelnad targeting Flynn were false. Another red flag for Flynn is that a QB starved team like Cleve didn't make a run at him when GB and Cleve basically run the same system and Holmgrem still has GB ties.

 

[Houdini]

My understanding was Flynn turned Miami down. Miami wanted him. Quotes of Matt Flynn per the Milwaukee journal.

On why he chose Seattle over Miami: "I am close with Joe (Philbin), I think a lot of him. I think he’s gonna do a great job in Miami. I think he’s gonna be a really successful head coach in the league. So when it came down to it, I just felt like it was a better situation for me — I felt it’s a program that’s really on the rise, doing the right thing, is being led by the right type of people. And you look at it, I think it’s the second youngest team in the NFL, and so there’s a lot of talent everywhere and I think it’s a team that in the very near future has a chance to be special.”

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

My understanding was Flynn turned Miami down. Miami wanted him. Quotes of Matt Flynn per the Milwaukee journal.

On why he chose Seattle over Miami: "I am close with Joe (Philbin), I think a lot of him. I think he’s gonna do a great job in Miami. I think he’s gonna be a really successful head coach in the league. So when it came down to it, I just felt like it was a better situation for me — I felt it’s a program that’s really on the rise, doing the right thing, is being led by the right type of people. And you look at it, I think it’s the second youngest team in the NFL, and so there’s a lot of talent everywhere and I think it’s a team that in the very near future has a chance to be special.”

That's all well and good, but Miami didn't offer nearly the money Seattle did.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

miami is a dumpster fire - from an organization standpoint seattle is light years ahead of them when you are going to bring in and court someone

anything else other than that from their end is purely spin

flynns money isn't going to be in his 1st contract - it's going to be in his 2nd so it's best for him to get a good deal now and be in a position where it's possible to get a great deal later ......... miami hasn't had the greatest track record of QBs with even moderate success over the past 20 years

his old GM was able to sell him more on the direction of the franchise more than his old coach was able to sell his GM/owner on the potential of the player

also, I would take matt moore over jackson in a heartbeat, so I could see seattle maybe pulling out more stops

there also weren't a ton of teams that were that QB starved ........ so many teams have drafted a QB in the first couple of rounds the past couple of years - it doesn't make sense for them to drop their recent prospect for another prospect

Indy is desperate without manning - but now will have luck

Washington is desperate and will get RG3

Seattle is desperate and snagged Flynn

That leaves Cleveland & Miami holding the bag - who knows, maybe with the Mike Sherman connection they are really sold on Tannehill in Miami

There were 3 teams that had obvious needs at QB without an obvious draft answer - 2 of them brought in Flynn and made offers

 

[Brian]

Guess who has the most RBI in a game in MLB history. Mark Whiten.

If baseball isn't your thing how about the most passing yards in a game in the history of the NFL? Norm Van Brocklin. Most passing TDs? Adrian Burk. I don't think people were knocking down their doors to make them their QB of the future.

This is just a stupid example and I can't believe anyone would use this as a serious way to make their point.

Hey jackass, try reading more of the thread.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't know if it's just spin or not, but word from Miami is that Philbin, his former OC who saw him everyday, is/was not all that high on Flynn and didn't think he was worth the big contract. Think about it, they were willing to offer proven mediocrity in Alex Smith $8 mill/year and not make a big offer to Flynn.

Also, I guess all the reports about Clevelnad targeting Flynn were false. Another red flag for Flynn is that a QB starved team like Cleve didn't make a run at him when GB and Cleve basically run the same system and Holmgrem still has GB ties.

Reminds me of last year when it became clear the Cards were the only team with a real interest in Kolb.