Lost - Season 4 (spoilers)

[Gaddabout]

I suspect sometime next season the bottle full of messages of the 44 survivors will be discovered, revealing the lie Jack and the others are holding too. My guess.

 

[Gaddabout]

BTW, a little history ... now that I've run back through this episode ...

Jeremy Bentham was a real person, like Locke. Among other things, he was a contemporary (and follower) of Locke, influenced Adam Smith, was perhaps the first modern Libertarian. He favored individual rights of all kind ... and he may have been the first notable European to publicly call for the decriminalization of homosexuality -- a profoundly radical stance for 17th Century Europe.

Bentham was an odd man. In his will he demanded his body be preserved in a wooden box, and to be held present at University College London official meetings. When a board vote is locked in a tie, they open the door and Bentham's body officially casts a vote in favor of the measure. This continues today. (See link to photo below)

http://www.superdemocracy.org/wp-content/benthamjeremy_01.jpg

In addition to Bentham's body being preserved in a wooden box, his head is made of wax. I have no idea what happened to his real head, but it does lead to some interesting conclusions about the growing Lost mythology ...

One of Bentham's writing correspondents and friends was French revolutionary Gabriel Mirabeau. The "Oceanic Six" float to an island called Mirabu. This is where "the lie" begins.

Makes you wonder about what "lies" in that box ...

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Gad, you really should be a contestant on Jeopardy! It never ceases to amaze me how much knowledge you have locked in that brain of yours and the rapidity in which you provide it.:notworthy

 

[Chaplin]

I was totally wrong about who was in the coffin, but I find it hard to believe that both Jin and Michael died. We never saw what happened to Jin, and the appearance of Jack's dad to Michael makes that situation very strange. Interesting that the island can manifest itself (or Jacob or whatever) that far from the island.

There are still so many questions--like what happened to Claire, Jin and Michael... What the hell kind of "deal" was Sun talking about with Widmore (my guess is that it's a revenge thing on her part)?

The Desmond and Penny reunion was one of the best moments of the season, and I loved the nice touch about Hurley playing chess with Mr. Eko.

 

[Gaddabout]

Gad, you really should be a contestant on Jeopardy! It never ceases to amaze me how much knowledge you have locked in that brain of yours and the rapidity in which you provide it.:notworthy

As a former young Republican and wanna-be seminarian, Lost kind of hits on one of the strengths of those two disciplines: 17th Century philosophers. If it has anything to do with John Locke or Adam Smith, I probably consumed it in my reading at one point in my early 20s. It's one of the reasons why I love this show so much.

If the topic shifts towards quantum mechanics or theoretical science, I promise I'll embarrass myself at a high rate of speed.

 

[Gaddabout]

The Desmond and Penny reunion was one of the best moments of the season, and I loved the nice touch about Hurley playing chess with Mr. Eko.

Agreed. The Desmond/Penny love story is probably one of the best written in television history. It has an old lace-and-leather kind of feel to it, very old-fashioned, but made credible on the strength of the character created by the writers and Henry Ian Cusick. It's curious they've resolved it with two seasons to go -- without much build up beyond the one episode we saw early in this season. It had the potential to draw people in like Mulder's passionate search for his sister in X-Files.

I'm less certain about Hurley's character. He became the heart of the show when Locke became a whacko zealot. The show's been missing a lot of emotional appeal since Hurley went down the rabbit hole. It would be nice for both of those two to return to their character strengths. This final episode seemed to be at least pointing in that direction.

 

[Evil Ash]

Good season finale. Not as good as last year's but its probably because I was expecting the big twist ending this time around.

As per typical Lost style, we have some questions answered and now a whole bunch of new ones.

- What killed Locke? How did he get off the island?
- When Ben said that everyone had to go back to the island, does that include Desmond?
- What happened to the boat that was floating to the freighter? Were they moved with the island or just abandoned?
- Did the island save Michael and Jin or do they become part of the island like the other people that have died there?
- What happened to Claire? Why doesn't she want Aaron to go back?

The Charolette (sp?) storyline seems intriguing as well as everything else. So now we have to go through the long wait and get the anticipation for another season. *sigh*

 

[Russ Smith]

Well it was Locke, kind of a dissapointing episode if you ask me, best part of the episode was penny and desmond. Now all next season will be focused around Ben and Jack trying to get everyone back. Locke goin back and talking to everyone including Walt should be interesting. Guess Jin and Micheal really do die. The whole orchid thing still is weird with the Ice pit which would explain the polar bear but how the hell does that work, and since ben said he could never go back how can he tell jack they are all gonna go back?

I thought that a great episode. I can tell when I'm really into one when I keep glancing at the clock seeing how much time is left and not wanting it to end and I did that repeatedly last night.

We still really don't know on Michael and Jin, remember Michael can't seem to die off the island, does that extend to the boat? Jin we assume is dead but
you just never know on this show.

I was so glad they showed who was in the coffin I thought that was going to be the offseason cliffhanger, I assume Jeremy was a fake name he came up with after getting off the island?

 

[HoodieBets]

I think Jacob or Jacks Dad or whoever he is saw micheal and told him its time to go bc he just saved the lives of the people on the boat and now he can finally die or "go" like he wanted.

 

[bankybruce]

http://tv.popcrunch.com/lost-who-is...morning-america-lost-alternate-endings-video/

Alternate endings for your view pleasure.

 

[puckhead]

I can tell when I'm really into one when I keep glancing at the clock seeing how much time is left and not wanting it to end and I did that repeatedly last night.

That's hilarious, I'm the exactly same way.

Another great finale IMO. This is such a fun show to watch. I have to go watch these episodes even closer after Gad's (amazing) additional info on the characters' real life counterparts. Thanks for that!

 

[nashman]

wasn't long enough for me wanted it to last for hours more!

 

[KloD]

BTW, a little history ... now that I've run back through this episode ...

Jeremy Bentham was a real person, like Locke. Among other things, he was a contemporary (and follower) of Locke, influenced Adam Smith, was perhaps the first modern Libertarian. He favored individual rights of all kind ... and he may have been the first notable European to publicly call for the decriminalization of homosexuality -- a profoundly radical stance for 17th Century Europe.

Bentham was an odd man. In his will he demanded his body be preserved in a wooden box, and to be held present at University College London official meetings. When a board vote is locked in a tie, they open the door and Bentham's body officially casts a vote in favor of the measure. This continues today. (See link to photo below)

http://www.superdemocracy.org/wp-content/benthamjeremy_01.jpg

In addition to Bentham's body being preserved in a wooden box, his head is made of wax. I have no idea what happened to his real head, but it does lead to some interesting conclusions about the growing Lost mythology ...

One of Bentham's writing correspondents and friends was French revolutionary Gabriel Mirabeau. The "Oceanic Six" float to an island called Mirabu. This is where "the lie" begins.

Makes you wonder about what "lies" in that box ...

Finally got a chance to watch the episode, great one IMO. I knew the name sounded familiar, thanks for the refresher. Wasn't he the guy who designed an idea for a prison where the inmates would never, or rarely see their guards? I can't remember what the prison type was called, but the idea was it would only take a few people to guard a prisons worth of inmates because they would never know when they were being watched. That the prisoners would in a sense guard themselves, they'd be imprisoned by their own minds.

 

[Gaddabout]

Finally got a chance to watch the episode, great one IMO. I knew the name sounded familiar, thanks for the refresher. Wasn't he the guy who designed an idea for a prison where the inmates would never, or rarely see their guards? I can't remember what the prison type was called, but the idea was it would only take a few people to guard a prisons worth of inmates because they would never know when they were being watched. That the prisoners would in a sense guard themselves, they'd be imprisoned by their own minds.

*shrug* If so, that's one weird detail to reconcile about a man on a island where everyone was being secretly watched as part of an experiment.

 

[jf-08]

Finally got a chance to watch the episode, great one IMO. I knew the name sounded familiar, thanks for the refresher. Wasn't he the guy who designed an idea for a prison where the inmates would never, or rarely see their guards? I can't remember what the prison type was called, but the idea was it would only take a few people to guard a prisons worth of inmates because they would never know when they were being watched. That the prisoners would in a sense guard themselves, they'd be imprisoned by their own minds.

Yes, he's the one who designed the Panopticon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

 

[KloD]

*shrug* If so, that's one weird detail to reconcile about a man on a island where everyone was being secretly watched as part of an experiment.

I know, I was thinking the same thing. The name has to have reference to the island, it's Locke afterall. Man I love this show!!!

Yes, he's the one who designed the Panopticon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

That's it, thanks. Of course Bentham had a lot to do with laws and legal rights too, but the prison thing seems more likely to be why his name was used. Of course it may be nothing...

 

[D-Dogg]

We still really don't know on Michael and Jin, remember Michael can't seem to die off the island, does that extend to the boat? Jin we assume is dead but
you just never know on this show.

No, he died. Xian told him "Michael, you can go now." He couldn't die before, now he could go (pass on..die, etc.).

That's how I took it. Boom.

 

[Chaplin]

No, he died. Xian told him "Michael, you can go now." He couldn't die before, now he could go (pass on..die, etc.).

That's how I took it. Boom.

That's a reasonable theory. I'm more of the mind that "You can go now" referred to him NOT having to stay and die on the boat, so the island allowed him to get out of there. Let's face it, Michael didn't exactly have a lot to do this season--his appearance on the show was pretty underwhelming. I wouldn't be surprised if he did survive somehow--same with Jin. Although Daniel Dae Kim did get arrested for drunk driving earlier in the year, and we all know what happens to characters that get cited for drunk driving...

 

[Mike Olbinski]

That's a reasonable theory. I'm more of the mind that "You can go now" referred to him NOT having to stay and die on the boat, so the island allowed him to get out of there. Let's face it, Michael didn't exactly have a lot to do this season--his appearance on the show was pretty underwhelming. I wouldn't be surprised if he did survive somehow--same with Jin. Although Daniel Dae Kim did get arrested for drunk driving earlier in the year, and we all know what happens to characters that get cited for drunk driving...

I wouldn't even say it's a theory, I think it's pretty obvious Michael wanted to die forever, trying to kill himself multiple times, the Island wouldn't let him until his work was done, and then they said finally "You can go now."

I agree his presence was underwhelming...but I think it's because we all know in that episode #7 that he was the man on the boat.

 

[DWKB]

Harold Perrineau Dishes on his Lost Exit (Again)

Shortly after he wrapped filming, an emotional Perrineau — who made a much-hyped return to the series in March after leaving in Season 2 — called to chat about his explosive second exit, the mad dash home to be with pregnant wife Brittany and why he feels the lack of a Michael-Walt reunion was "not cool."

TV Guide: Did you know Michael was being killed off when you returned?
Harold Perrineau: I had no idea. It's like, what the hell? I came back for that?

TV Guide: You're laughing as you say that, but you don't sound particularly pleased.
Perrineau: I'm disappointed, mostly because I wanted Michael and Walt to have a happy ending. I was hoping Michael would get it together and actually want to be a father to his kid and try to figure out a way to get back [home]. But this is [the producers'] story. If I were writing it, I would write it differently.

TV Guide:: So when did you get the news?
Perrineau: [Lindelof and fellow executive producer Carlton Cuse] called before the finale scripts were out. They said they weren't going to continue with Michael.

TV Guide:: And what did you say to that?
Perrineau: At this point, I've been on the island, off the island, back on the island — so I just went, "Oh, ok." [Laughs] This is their show and they know what they can or cannot write. I thought it was disappointing and a waste to come back, only to get beat up a few times and then killed. I felt like it was sort of pandering to some fans who wanted to see Michael punished because he betrayed people.

TV Guide: Are you referring to when he shot and killed Ana Lucia and Libby in Season 2?
Perrineau: Exactly. I honestly feel like Michael's death served a really weird bloodlust for the fans.

TV Guide: Were you disappointed Michael and Walt didn't reconnect before your character died?
Perrineau: Listen, if I'm being really candid, there are all these questions about how they respond to black people on the show. Sayid gets to meet Nadia again, and Desmond and Penny hook up again, but a little black boy and his father hooking up, that wasn't interesting? Instead, Walt just winds up being another fatherless child. It plays into a really big, weird stereotype and, being a black person myself, that wasn't so interesting. [Responds Cuse: "We pride ourselves on having a very racially diverse cast. It's painful when any actor's storyline ends on the show. Harold is a fantastic actor whose presence added enormously to Lost."]

TV Guide: Take me back to your last day of shooting.
Perrineau: My last day was kind of hectic. [Production] was trying to get me out because, at the time, my wife was a centimeter dilated.

TV Guide: Was she in labor at the hospital when you got back to L.A.?
Perrineau: No, I got home and then for another week, the baby would not come! We were like, "Seriously, dude, I was in Hawaii rushing like a madman!” I was talking to the baby, my wife was walking around, practically hiking, but the baby just would not come out! [Laughs] So we went to the hospital a week later and induced. A beautiful little girl came on May 7. Wynter Aria — I thought it was a nice name. It's poetic, and she's a little poetry in our life.

TV Guide: Let's talk highlights. Surely, you had some positive experiences on Lost.
Perrineau: Doing the job in Hawaii was cool. Getting to meet and work with [co-creator] JJ Abrams was very cool. The day we found out the show [premiered] so well [in 2004] was an amazing day. We were all so hopeful and excited. The first season was one of my best years as a working actor. Not to say there weren't tough times, but I loved the first season. And that one of my best friends, Dan [Dae Kim, who plays Jin], and I got to do pretty much the whole finale together.

TV Guide: Dead characters have a way of returning to the show. Would you be open to that?
Perrineau: I'd love to go back and work with people I really like working with, but I would have to know what was happening [story-wise] before I showed up again. Because this [last] storyline, I full-on feel, "No, that's not cool.'"

TV Guide: What's next for you?
Perrineau: This movie I did with Stephen Dorff called Felon is probably coming out at the end of the summer. And I'm in talks for a couple different films.

TV Guide: Any final thoughts?
Perrineau: Just that I hope the show continues to thrill people. I'm sorry to have to go, but I'll see you in another incarnation. I'll re-create myself because that's what I do. That part of leaving is pretty cool.

 

[Gaddabout]

Michael had to die. I know I wasn't rooting for a reunion for him with Walt.

 

[Chaplin]

I was just hoping he would do more in his return--there was a lot of anticipation for it.

 

[Gaddabout]

I was just hoping he would do more in his return--there was a lot of anticipation for it.

When I first heard of Michael's return, I was thinking of Charlie and how the storyline seemed to fit the stereotypical Pacific islander theme of the island demanding a sacrifice. Charlie was redeemed. Maybe Michael could be redeemed in a similar sacrifice. I suppose that's what he did, but it was so unimportant to the storyline (that we know of) that his return lacked any story arc.

It's disappointing considering how beautiful Charlie's story was. Even Michael's reunion with Jin was way underplayed. It's any wonder, because I hated Charlie even more than I hated Michael.

So, yes, I agree. It was disappointing.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I suspect sometime next season the bottle full of messages of the 44 survivors will be discovered, revealing the lie Jack and the others are holding too. My guess.

Am I wrong, or didn't the bottle with the notes come up on shore? I mean, the bottle went with Jin, Michael and Sawyer when they went on the raft and, after the exploded, the bottle washed up on shore, right? So, I don't think that will happen.

I was totally wrong about who was in the coffin, but I find it hard to believe that both Jin and Michael died. We never saw what happened to Jin, and the appearance of Jack's dad to Michael makes that situation very strange. Interesting that the island can manifest itself (or Jacob or whatever) that far from the island.

There are still so many questions--like what happened to Claire, Jin and Michael... What the hell kind of "deal" was Sun talking about with Widmore (my guess is that it's a revenge thing on her part)?

Jin is dead, dead, dead. There is no way Sun would act so upset during the delivery of her baby and at Jin's "grave site." Besides, the guy who plays Jin has a big time part on a new show.

Sun obviously blames her father and Ben for Jin's death. Perhaps she's going to tell Widmore about Penny and Desmond. Maybe she'll be nice to the other survivors to help Widmore get to Ben. I think we'll see the survivors splitting allegiances between Widmore and Ben.

The Desmond and Penny reunion was one of the best moments of the season, and I loved the nice touch about Hurley playing chess with Mr. Eko.

Absolutely LOVED the Penny-Desmond reunion. I cheered and cried! Awesome.

And, yeah, Hurley's comment about Mr. Eko was cool.

 

[Chaplin]

Jin is dead, dead, dead. There is no way Sun would act so upset during the delivery of her baby and at Jin's "grave site." Besides, the guy who plays Jin has a big time part on a new show.

For all intents and purposes, Sun DOES think Jin's dead. Doesn't mean he is. I know there's been some confirmation about Michael being dead, but I haven't seen anything about Jin.

And which show are you talking about? According to IMDB, the only thing he's on is The Andromeda Strain, which is a miniseries.

Sun obviously blames her father and Ben for Jin's death. Perhaps she's going to tell Widmore about Penny and Desmond. Maybe she'll be nice to the other survivors to help Widmore get to Ben. I think we'll see the survivors splitting allegiances between Widmore and Ben.

You're probably right here.