Leonard Davis Sucks

[LVCARDFREAK]

See the title of this thread.

(I wouldn't say he's elite either, BTW.)

I deserve that slap I suppose....someone did say he sucked. Just wasnt me! I was talking to whomeever say he was a top 5 NFL LT....Now that is an arguement I can take up!

 

[BigDavis75]

I deserve that slap I suppose....someone did say he sucked. Just wasnt me! I was talking to whomeever say he was a top 5 NFL LT....Now that is an arguement I can take up!

I said he was top 5-7 LT. Tell me 7 LTs that are better and don't look for who allowed the least sacks last year, like you did before. You listed Salaam who isn't even a starter on his team and when needed he only started 12 games last year.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I said he was top 5-7 LT. Tell me 7 LTs that are better and don't look for who allowed the least sacks last year, like you did before. You listed Salaam who isn't even a starter on his team and when needed he only started 15 games last year.

I never looked up who gave up the least sacks, that was someone else. I can give you more than 7 guys I think are better, or are just as good, and most of them were NOT drafted as high -or eat into as much cap space- as does Big:

Walter Jones
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Willie Roaf
John Tait
Ryan Diem
Flozel Adams

 

[BigDavis75]

I never looked up who gave up the least sacks, that was someone else. I can give you more than 7 guys I think are better, or are just as good, and most of them were NOT drafted as high -or eat into as much cap space- as does Big:

Walter Jones
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Willie Roaf
John Tait
Ryan Diem
Flozel Adams

Big is better than these guys. Diem isn't that great at all, he only has good stats because of Manning's quick release and Diem is very very weak at the point of attack. Ogden and Adams both really struggle with fast DEs.

 

[BigDavis75]

Well you got one part right...he is by far our best lineman. Top 5 Tackle? I know you are joking....

Should I go further than Pace, Ogden, Jones, Flozel Adams, Diem, Petitgout, Roaf, Salaam, Samuels, Tait, ...

Obviously you just looked at who had the least sacks allowed; this is the same as Redzs' list.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Obviously you just looked at who had the least sacks allowed; this is the same as Redzs' list.

If you go back in the thread you will see that I named the tackles and did NOT post or look up sacks allowed. Someone else looked that up...so obviously you would be wrong...

Nevertheless, we can just agree to disagree. I never once claimed he sucked, far from it, but he isnt worth the lofty draft status he was given and he is not a top 5-7 tackle imo.

I certainly wont convince you of this with your screen name being "Big Davis" and all.

 

[Grand Canon]

Read Sommers article to all you experts

By the way Kent pointed out what you all said didnt happen- Davis got smoked on the goal line!!!!

You guys are so bent on being positive you dont see the reality- watch Davis this weekend- he will have good moments and then he will take a bunch of plays off and not do his job-

Maybe he doesnt give up sacks- but he doesnt run block well enough and doesnt help off his man if the run twists

 

[conraddobler]

By the way Kent pointed out what you all said didnt happen- Davis got smoked on the goal line!!!!

You guys are so bent on being positive you dont see the reality- watch Davis this weekend- he will have good moments and then he will take a bunch of plays off and not do his job-

Maybe he doesnt give up sacks- but he doesnt run block well enough and doesnt help off his man if the run twists

I don't isolate the plays on tivo like I could or should so I won't claim he sucks but I do know he is well known to have lapses and it usually comes at extremely bad times.

To me that just says he's lazy about his technique which makes sense. A player that is big as a house is probably used to getting by on talent alone and unless he's got a super killer competitive instinct he's gonna just amble through a game unless he's mad about something.

Weve all seen what happens when he gets mad and to me that just proves the point. He could dominate the NFL if he really had a fire to do it but he dosen't.

 

[john h]

He has to be the worst starting left tackle in the league! Did anyone else notice that when we needed some short yards we ran left??? And that he either missed his block or got blown up??? I cant freaking believe how bad he is.... He is another bust in the long line of cardinal high draft picks- I wouldn't be surprised to see another person starting there by year end.. Watch the game film it is depressing how inconsistent he is...

An offensive line is very much like a chain. It is only as good as its weakest link. Putting together a good offensive line takes time and also experience. Each player has to learn how the rest of the line reacts. I have read that more than any other position it takes time to develop and put in place a good offensive line. The Cards were once known for their offensive line and was perhaps the best in the league with Conrad Dobler and company. There is no quick fix for this unless you draft some good experienced players and they happen to jell as a group. Jeff Gollin has been screaming about having a good offensive line since the day I came on this board. I am beginning to think Jeff is on to something.

 

[john h]

An offensive line is very much like a chain. It is only as good as its weakest link. Putting together a good offensive line takes time and also experience. Each player has to learn how the rest of the line reacts. I have read that more than any other position it takes time to develop and put in place a good offensive line. The Cards were once known for their offensive line and was perhaps the best in the league with Conrad Dobler and company. There is no quick fix for this unless you draft some good experienced players and they happen to jell as a group. Jeff Gollin has been screaming about having a good offensive line since the day I came on this board. I am beginning to think Jeff is on to something.

I should have said obtain some good OL in FA unless you want to spend a few years developing some good draft prospects.

 

[john h]

Wow!!!

I actually agree K9... who'da thunk it?

Watching Ross get pushed back 8 yards into Warner was very depressing.

I really hope we see a different Cardinal team next week!!

He did not just get pushed back he was in full retreat from a guy smaller than he was. When the rusher gets under you and you give ground you have had it no matter how big you are. In this case Ross's technique was lacking to say the least.

 

[john h]

The problem with us breaking down video is we never really know who had what assignment on any given play. A couple of years ago Shipp got clobbered on a 4th and 1 play in Philly and everyone crucified Shelton for missing a block. Well, the next day on his radio show Pete Kendall confessed to blowing his assignment because he thought the play was to the right, not the left. Without Kendall saying that, we never would've known anything different.

Good analysis.

 

[john h]

We need a voice of reason here again. K9, very good footage. Davis was not at fault here, nor did he play badly. Has he fell short of expectations so far - probably. But 1 guy does not make an OL great. You could take MANY, MANY HOF O-lineman & put them on the Cardinal teams of the last 10 years & my guess is that they would never have made the HOF. Would Deirdorf be in the Hall without the other guys he played with. That was a very good O-Line even without Deirdorf. Deirdorf made it a GREAT O-Line. Until we shore up the center position & right side, this O-Line as a whole will still look crappy.

In particular the center position. He handles the ball on nearly every play. Who knows how many snaps may have been just a little off to cause a fraction of second delay in handoffs, the QB getting into position, etc. We have a guy playing center who thought he was out of the NFL and was at home when he gets a phone call. In the same week he is our staring center. That want get it in the NFL. We knew going into this year we had one Center and he was only a second year player. We should have addressed that in FA. I hold DG and Graves responsible for that error.

 

[john h]

Davis is what he is....A mediocre left tackle....

Trade him to a good team and he will probably be an All-Pro.

 

[john h]

This is just foolish, Davis is a top 5-7 LT. He is by far our best lineman. He almost always sticks his assignments and we run to his side a lot, which is indicative of his ability as a run blocker.

I think he is by far our best OL.

 

[joeshmo]

We should have addressed that in FA. I hold DG and Graves responsible for that error.

We had 3 centers, Step, Leckey, Conaty, and all 3 got injured. How is that DG or Graves error. At the point all 3 got injured there was no one left but a guy on his way out of football. It wasnt an error it was just bad luck.

 

[conraddobler]

We had 3 centers, Step, Leckey, Conaty, and all 3 got injured. How is that DG or Graves error. At the point all 3 got injured there was no one left but a guy on his way out of football. It wasnt an error it was just bad luck.

I guess I'll have to give you that.

We all need to give them a few games to get the rust knocked off before we pronounce them dead.

Thinking about it we never had a chance with the new guy starting at center it's amazing we made it to halftime before they figured out how to fully exploit that.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

NFL GameCenter: ARI@NYG

Osi Umeniyora: 1 tackle, 0 Sacks.

That was Leonard Davis's man. Didn't do anything all game long. Carlos Emmons, the linebacker on that side, did not record a sack. The O-line's bad performance is on Lynch, Wells, and Brown. Davis had nothing to do with it.

I actually thought he had a really good game against a tough, rising player. The Big problem (pun intended) was the early false start penalties, but he seemed to overcome that pretty quickly.

What he said.

This is getting to be like what happened to Dan Wilkinson in Cin. Big is not dominating, and is not one of the top 5 tackles in the league. Be he is really really good.

Dan Wilkinson was a 1st round pick in Cin. with the Bengals and they ran him out of town. He did not dominate but he is a very solid DT. I wish we had him.

Davis is not lived up to the potential of a 1st rounder but he has played well, and is much improved over the last 2 years.

Elton Brown (still a rookie so he gets some patience), Wells, and Lynch were who sucked last week. AND sucked really bad.

Reggie Wells is not NFL starting talent.

 

[john h]

We had 3 centers, Step, Leckey, Conaty, and all 3 got injured. How is that DG or Graves error. At the point all 3 got injured there was no one left but a guy on his way out of football. It wasnt an error it was just bad luck.

Step is still an unknown quantity. I really do not know much about the others as they are not widely known. Are they really NFL caliber centers? I think you need at least one decent experienced center if you are planning on starting a second year center. If these guys who got hurt are decent then ok we just had bad luck. If they are not very good anyway then as important as the center is I think we should have added a decent FA center.

 

[Wild Card]

I never looked up who gave up the least sacks, that was someone else. I can give you more than 7 guys I think are better, or are just as good, and most of them were NOT drafted as high -or eat into as much cap space- as does Big:

Walter Jones
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Willie Roaf
John Tait
Ryan Diem
Flozel Adams

LVCF:

Agreed. And what's really depressing is, the Cardinals passed on both Ogden and John Tait in the draft. It's gonna take Dennis Green more that a couple of seasons to get out from under years of bonehead draft-day decisions by the Cards front office.

WC

 

[Duckjake]

LVCF:

Agreed. And what's really depressing is, the Cardinals passed on both Ogden and John Tait in the draft. It's gonna take Dennis Green more that a couple of seasons to get out from under years of bonehead draft-day decisions by the Cards front office.

WC

Could have had Ogden AND Tony Brakens instead of Rice and McElroy. OUCH.

 

[BigDavis75]

If you go back in the thread you will see that I named the tackles and did NOT post or look up sacks allowed. Someone else looked that up...so obviously you would be wrong...

Nevertheless, we can just agree to disagree. I never once claimed he sucked, far from it, but he isnt worth the lofty draft status he was given and he is not a top 5-7 tackle imo.

I certainly wont convince you of this with your screen name being "Big Davis" and all.

I said 5-7 LT and Diem is a RT.