Large sqft gaming router

[BigRedRage]

So, I'm over 4k sqft on 1/3 acre now and decided I need to update my router. My old one was getting 1mbps in the front yard and iffy connection to my ring doorbells. Also, it was a dual band router.

I recently picked up a tp link ax11000. The connection is about 5x better now and the trip band is giving us about 200 Mbps per Xbox where before one got 200 and one got 40.

I have 500mbps internet. This router gives me 500 upstairs but the Xboxes are downstairs.

I read about mesh networks and don't tend see see good reviews on gaming wifi for them but outside of that they seem the solution.

The ax11000 also let's you add mesh nodes.

I'm not sure if returning this and going for a mesh setup like orbi would be the key or to just add notes to this one. Curious of some opinions if anyone is studied up on the issue.

Things is my favorite website for this type of research but they don't do routers really, at least not in the fashion I need.

 

[Devilmaycare]

I'd avoid mesh networking if you can. Speed from any secondary node is half of what your theoretical max is. So if you want performance, avoid it. It'll also a millisecond or two of latency which normally wouldn't be noticed but since you're doing it for the xboxes it might be.

The best thing you can do, and what I do, is run a 2nd access point that's hard wired to the router. That'll give you max performance off of it. I'd go with a Ubiquiti AP for it but you can get cheaper options if there are budget constraints.

Do not get Orbi. Netgear sucks. I really hate them now. I'm running one of their higher end wifi routers (a $400) one and I'm about to dump it. The firmware on them is severely lacking. They won't meter traffic per device, they have issues propagating names across the intranet, callers, the software to control it is a mess, etc. The only thing good about it is that it's fast.

The final straw for me with them was last we I upgraded the firmware for a security patch. It ended up causing DNS to not resolve for about a minute at a time ever five minutes. It drove me crazy. I ended up having to downgrade the firmware to fix it. I found reports of the same happening on Orbi and other router lines too. I'm currently researching what I'm going to replace it with and leaning to a Ubiquiti router but was hoping for something cheaper.

 

[jf-08]

I'd avoid mesh networking if you can. Speed from any secondary node is half of what your theoretical max is. So if you want performance, avoid it. It'll also a millisecond or two of latency which normally wouldn't be noticed but since you're doing it for the xboxes it might be.

The best thing you can do, and what I do, is run a 2nd access point that's hard wired to the router. That'll give you max performance off of it. I'd go with a Ubiquiti AP for it but you can get cheaper options if there are budget constraints.

Do not get Orbi. Netgear sucks. I really hate them now. I'm running one of their higher end wifi routers (a $400) one and I'm about to dump it. The firmware on them is severely lacking. They won't meter traffic per device, they have issues propagating names across the intranet, callers, the software to control it is a mess, etc. The only thing good about it is that it's fast.

The final straw for me with them was last we I upgraded the firmware for a security patch. It ended up causing DNS to not resolve for about a minute at a time ever five minutes. It drove me crazy. I ended up having to downgrade the firmware to fix it. I found reports of the same happening on Orbi and other router lines too. I'm currently researching what I'm going to replace it with and leaning to a Ubiquiti router but was hoping for something cheaper.

I have an Orbi system and it seems to be working fine but I'm not a power user, gamer, etc.

 

[BigRedRage]

I'd avoid mesh networking if you can. Speed from any secondary node is half of what your theoretical max is. So if you want performance, avoid it. It'll also a millisecond or two of latency which normally wouldn't be noticed but since you're doing it for the xboxes it might be.

The best thing you can do, and what I do, is run a 2nd access point that's hard wired to the router. That'll give you max performance off of it. I'd go with a Ubiquiti AP for it but you can get cheaper options if there are budget constraints.

Do not get Orbi. Netgear sucks. I really hate them now. I'm running one of their higher end wifi routers (a $400) one and I'm about to dump it. The firmware on them is severely lacking. They won't meter traffic per device, they have issues propagating names across the intranet, callers, the software to control it is a mess, etc. The only thing good about it is that it's fast.

The final straw for me with them was last we I upgraded the firmware for a security patch. It ended up causing DNS to not resolve for about a minute at a time ever five minutes. It drove me crazy. I ended up having to downgrade the firmware to fix it. I found reports of the same happening on Orbi and other router lines too. I'm currently researching what I'm going to replace it with and leaning to a Ubiquiti router but was hoping for something cheaper.

So,

This access point. Being hard wired, this is something like run a cat 5 in the walls to the other side of the house, plug it into the access point and then it drops more Wifi from there?

At that point, I would probably just find a way to run ethernet through the walls to the xbox's and then the wifi is fine for everything else.

Hell....at the point the old router was probably fine for everything else.

I just googled and it seems I could have someone run cat 5 through the house (cat 6 apparently) for under $500. Is that accurate?

 

[Devilmaycare]

I have an Orbi system and it seems to be working fine but I'm not a power user, gamer, etc.

Mesh isn't bad for everyone. It's just that the nature of the tech causes the nodes to have slower speeds. If you only have like a 100 or 300 Mbps internet connection and only really use the internet you might not notice it.

With heavy gaming you might notice a little more latency and it'll depend on how good you are if you notice it. With a gigabit line you might notice it on large downloads like say an OS update. For me it's noticeable due to the in home video streaming from my NAS to my home theater.

 

[Devilmaycare]

So,

This access point. Being hard wired, this is something like run a cat 5 in the walls to the other side of the house, plug it into the access point and then it drops more Wifi from there?

At that point, I would probably just find a way to run ethernet through the walls to the xbox's and then the wifi is fine for everything else.

Hell....at the point the old router was probably fine for everything else.

I just googled and it seems I could have someone run cat 5 through the house (cat 6 apparently) for under $500. Is that accurate?

Yes, that's correct for what I meant for the access point. That's what I do and I usually run a line to the spots that need the most bandwidth and are static location like my home theater and my desktop. I'm renting right now so I just have the house WiFied out.

I'm not sure on the pricing on having cat 5 run through out the house. 500' spool runs about $110 and about $200 for 1000'. Add on another $20-30 for wall plates and capstones. After that it's really the labor cost to have the work done. I did it myself at my last house. If you go this route I think I still have a spool of either cat5e or cat 6 that I'll give a deal on. I'll have to check what it's rated at and how long. I forget which size spool I had bought.

 

[BigRedRage]

Yes, that's correct for what I meant for the access point. That's what I do and I usually run a line to the spots that need the most bandwidth and are static location like my home theater and my desktop. I'm renting right now so I just have the house WiFied out.

I'm not sure on the pricing on having cat 5 run through out the house. 500' spool runs about $110 and about $200 for 1000'. Add on another $20-30 for wall plates and capstones. After that it's really the labor cost to have the work done. I did it myself at my last house. If you go this route I think I still have a spool of either cat5e or cat 6 that I'll give a deal on. I'll have to check what it's rated at and how long. I forget which size spool I had bought.

Probably something I'ma start looking at as it seems wifi just doesn't have the tech yet for what I want and I'm probably at this house for a minimum 10+ years so why not. I saw estimates at $80 an hour including materials. Based on the house layout from router to rooms...I may be best off hiring someone. That's a lot of walls to pass through.

 

[Devilmaycare]

Probably something I'ma start looking at as it seems wifi just doesn't have the tech yet for what I want and I'm probably at this house for a minimum 10+ years so why not. I saw estimates at $80 an hour including materials. Based on the house layout from router to rooms...I may be best off hiring someone. That's a lot of walls to pass through.

It really depends on your attic and how easy it is to move around to get to the walls. In my last two houses one was great and I did it all myself. The other was a nightmare with small crawl spaces and hard to move around. That one I said screw it and hired someone.

 

[BigRedRage]

Yeah, I have a walk in attic in the front of the 2nd story. I'm not sure there is much of an attic outside of that

 

[puckhead]

I have a hard line from my router to my home theater/gaming area. I just ran a shielded cat6 from the router and then put a dumb switch at the end and I get excellent results from everything there. Wifi is for the iPads/laptops/phones/bedroom tv. I put the phones on 2.4GHz because they need to longest range and the rest on the 5GHz band.

 

[BigRedRage]

I have a hard line from my router to my home theater/gaming area. I just ran a shielded cat6 from the router and then put a dumb switch at the end and I get excellent results from everything there. Wifi is for the iPads/laptops/phones/bedroom tv. I put the phones on 2.4GHz because they need to longest range and the rest on the 5GHz band.

yeah I think I just have to run through the walls and hardwire the xbox. Once I do that, This router takes all 3 bands and combines them into one band and chooses the best band for each connected device on its own. It should be far superior to what I need for ring devices, arlo cameras, phones and tvs. Really, the only issue was getting low MS low ping, high mbps gaming and if I can drop lines into the gaming rooms, it solves everything.

In fast, at that point, a mesh network would probably work even better as I will no longer be relying on wifi for high end gaming and it would probably extend my signal out much further than it currently goes.

 

[puckhead]

yeah I think I just have to run through the walls and hardwire the xbox. Once I do that, This router takes all 3 bands and combines them into one band and chooses the best band for each connected device on its own. It should be far superior to what I need for ring devices, arlo cameras, phones and tvs. Really, the only issue was getting low MS low ping, high mbps gaming and if I can drop lines into the gaming rooms, it solves everything.

In fast, at that point, a mesh network would probably work even better as I will no longer be relying on wifi for high end gaming and it would probably extend my signal out much further than it currently goes.

I think you're enough of a hardcore gamer to really appreciate the hardwire connection.

 

[BigRedRage]

I think you're enough of a hardcore gamer to really appreciate the hardwire connection.

Honestly, I always avoided it just because the sheer distance for the xbox's would be an issue but now that I am somewhere I plan to be for 10+ years, why not drop some money and do it right. its worth it.

 

[BigRedRage]

its tempting to just run drops into every room as well as when kids move out, I will likely move my office from my room to another room and my work stuff has to be hardwired. Seems it would be better future proofing vs calling someone out to drop a line again because I did not drop a line to X room in the first place. There are 3 other rooms up stairs that you would think would be real simple to drop lines to when the downstairs is the difficult one and where the xbox's are anyway

 

[Dan H]

The best way to do it is to run CAT6 in your attic and mount these in your ceilings in various areas. Our house is ~3000 SF and three cover pretty much everything. Two would probably do it, but I have an outdoor version outside to get WiFi to the Chromecast in my garage.

Amazon Link

They're POE (power over Ethernet) devices, so you'll only need to run one line per AP and tie them into your existing router, and plug in the POE injectors or pick up a POE network switch. You can get enterprise-grade stuff off eBay for less than prosumer stuff.

Gaming routers are mostly marketing hype, and I'm not a fan of mesh setups.

Admittedly, I'm probably more on the overkill side of things. This is my setup:

Top of rack to bottom:
PFSense firewall / router alongside HDHomerun network TV tuner
Blank slot for expansion
Cable modem
Patch panel
Aruba 48-port POE switch with 4 10Gig SFP+ ports.

You must be registered for see images attach

Also, if you run drops to each room, I'd recommend doubling up or even going 4x per. CAT6 is relatively cheap in the big spools, and you will eventually use the drops, one way or another.

 

[BigRedRage]

The best way to do it is to run CAT6 in your attic and mount these in your ceilings in various areas. Our house is ~3000 SF and three cover pretty much everything. Two would probably do it, but I have an outdoor version outside to get WiFi to the Chromecast in my garage.

Amazon Link

They're POE (power over Ethernet) devices, so you'll only need to run one line per AP and tie them into your existing router, and plug in the POE injectors or pick up a POE network switch. You can get enterprise-grade stuff off eBay for less than prosumer stuff.

Gaming routers are mostly marketing hype, and I'm not a fan of mesh setups.

Admittedly, I'm probably more on the overkill side of things. This is my setup:

Top of rack to bottom:
PFSense firewall / router alongside HDHomerun network TV tuner
Blank slot for expansion
Cable modem
Patch panel
Aruba 48-port POE switch with 4 10Gig SFP+ ports.

You must be registered for see images attach

Also, if you run drops to each room, I'd recommend doubling up or even going 4x per. CAT6 is relatively cheap in the big spools, and you will eventually use the drops, one way or another.

I have the same Anquan Boldin figure

 

[Devilmaycare]

The best way to do it is to run CAT6 in your attic and mount these in your ceilings in various areas. Our house is ~3000 SF and three cover pretty much everything. Two would probably do it, but I have an outdoor version outside to get WiFi to the Chromecast in my garage.

Amazon Link

They're POE (power over Ethernet) devices, so you'll only need to run one line per AP and tie them into your existing router, and plug in the POE injectors or pick up a POE network switch. You can get enterprise-grade stuff off eBay for less than prosumer stuff.

Gaming routers are mostly marketing hype, and I'm not a fan of mesh setups.

Admittedly, I'm probably more on the overkill side of things. This is my setup:

Top of rack to bottom:
PFSense firewall / router alongside HDHomerun network TV tuner
Blank slot for expansion
Cable modem
Patch panel
Aruba 48-port POE switch with 4 10Gig SFP+ ports.

You must be registered for see images attach

Also, if you run drops to each room, I'd recommend doubling up or even going 4x per. CAT6 is relatively cheap in the big spools, and you will eventually use the drops, one way or another.

The TPLink APs work well for you? What's the model of your router for it and do you like it too?

I was looking to something similar with the Ubiquiti APs but they're twice the price. I know they'll take care of the issues I'm having with netgear. The firmware updates keep causing more issues than they fix. I'm also looking for the router to meter per device, properly pass around device names for access, and pie-in-the-sky I'd love to have the router connect to the VPN I use and let me set which device run over it and which are in the clear.

 

[Dan H]

I have the same Anquan Boldin figure

It's David Johnson, alas ... I got it the year before he fell off the cliff. Oh, well.

The TPLink APs work well for you? What's the model of your router for it and do you like it too?

I was looking to something similar with the Ubiquiti APs but they're twice the price. I know they'll take care of the issues I'm having with netgear. The firmware updates keep causing more issues than they fix. I'm also looking for the router to meter per device, properly pass around device names for access, and pie-in-the-sky I'd love to have the router connect to the VPN I use and let me set which device run over it and which are in the clear.

I'm using PFsense for my router/firewall, it's a custom Linux distro running on a SFF PC. The main issue I've had with consumer routers in the past has been a lack of CPU horsepower (two teenagers and a wife make for a $#@!load of devices) and yes, firmware glitchiness. This is probably overkill, it's a 6-core Intel chip with 16GB of RAM running on an SSD, but it was laying around after an upgrade and fit in the mini-ITX case I'm using. PFSense will work with a VPN also. We were using Express VPN for a while (Japan Netflix is AWESOME), but I didn't think it was worth the price so I got rid of it. You can use OpenVPN for free, but I haven't messed around with it yet.

pfSense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The TPLinks are solid, they are managed through an app running on my server, but you can also set them up with a phone.

 

[BigRedRage]

It's David Johnson, alas ... I got it the year before he fell off the cliff. Oh, well.


I'm using PFsense for my router/firewall, it's a custom Linux distro running on a SFF PC. The main issue I've had with consumer routers in the past has been a lack of CPU horsepower (two teenagers and a wife make for a $#@!load of devices) and yes, firmware glitchiness. This is probably overkill, it's a 6-core Intel chip with 16GB of RAM running on an SSD, but it was laying around after an upgrade and fit in the mini-ITX case I'm using. PFSense will work with a VPN also. We were using Express VPN for a while (Japan Netflix is AWESOME), but I didn't think it was worth the price so I got rid of it. You can use OpenVPN for free, but I haven't messed around with it yet.

pfSense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The TPLinks are solid, they are managed through an app running on my server, but you can also set them up with a phone.

Hah. I looked. My AB one doesn't look like that. Duh.

I am a bit techie but....your setup....it might as well be in Japanese from your Netflix TBH

 

[Dan H]

Hah. I looked. My AB one doesn't look like that. Duh.

I am a bit techie but....your setup....it might as well be in Japanese from your Netflix TBH

It’s fun when I call Comcast with issues. They never want to believe me when I tell them it’s on their end.

“Oh, sir, you’d have a better experience with our modem/router …”

 

[Devilmaycare]

It’s fun when I call Comcast with issues. They never want to believe me when I tell them it’s on their end.

“Oh, sir, you’d have a better experience with our modem/router …”

I used to love those types of calls with Cox. Back in the day being on a Mac made them even more fun since their script didn't cover it. It got to the point where I'd just pretend I was following their script for the first 10 minutes and then once they were done we got to doing what I actually needed them to do. Like you, I know it's on their end when I call.

Ever since I got my fiber line with them it's been a lot better. First off the need to call has gone down since it's been so much more reliable than the coax line. But also since then they stopped bugging me about their equipment. Their combo modem-router doesn't apply anymore and they haven't tried to push a router or any networking gear. It's been nice.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The best way to do it is to run CAT6 in your attic and mount these in your ceilings in various areas. Our house is ~3000 SF and three cover pretty much everything. Two would probably do it, but I have an outdoor version outside to get WiFi to the Chromecast in my garage.

Amazon Link

They're POE (power over Ethernet) devices, so you'll only need to run one line per AP and tie them into your existing router, and plug in the POE injectors or pick up a POE network switch. You can get enterprise-grade stuff off eBay for less than prosumer stuff.

Gaming routers are mostly marketing hype, and I'm not a fan of mesh setups.

Admittedly, I'm probably more on the overkill side of things. This is my setup:

Top of rack to bottom:
PFSense firewall / router alongside HDHomerun network TV tuner
Blank slot for expansion
Cable modem
Patch panel
Aruba 48-port POE switch with 4 10Gig SFP+ ports.

You must be registered for see images attach

Also, if you run drops to each room, I'd recommend doubling up or even going 4x per. CAT6 is relatively cheap in the big spools, and you will eventually use the drops, one way or another.

Nice setup.

I use Ubiquity gear
Dream Machine
48 port POE switch with 32 ports POE
2 wifi access points running on different subnets

Ran Cat 6 in every room in my basement, including 2 in my work office (same room as 48 POE) and 4 in my gaming setup room.

Between the 3 POE cameras that I use and my all of my basement connections, I am using like 30 of the 48 ports. lol

It is much harder for me to run new Cat6 everywhere, since I installed insulation in between each studs. Most if not all interior walls have no insulation, making installing new Cat6 a breeze if you have attic access and a fishtape.

BRR, I'd consider doing the work yourself if you want to do it in each room. If not, I'd expect to spend $75-100 per drop if you plan on hiring someone.

 

[Devilmaycare]

Nice setup.

I use Ubiquity gear
Dream Machine
48 port POE switch with 32 ports POE
2 wifi access points running on different subnets

Ran Cat 6 in every room in my basement, including 2 in my work office (same room as 48 POE) and 4 in my gaming setup room.

Between the 3 POE cameras that I use and my all of my basement connections, I am using like 30 of the 48 ports. lol

It is much harder for me to run new Cat6 everywhere, since I installed insulation in between each studs. Most if not all interior walls have no insulation, making installing new Cat6 a breeze if you have attic access and a fishtape.

BRR, I'd consider doing the work yourself if you want to do it in each room. If not, I'd expect to spend $75-100 per drop if you plan on hiring someone.

How do you like the Dream Machine? I've been eyeing one to replace the netgear garbage that I have now.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

How do you like the Dream Machine? I've been eyeing one to replace the netgear garbage that I have now.

It works pretty good. Although it actually doesn't have theadvanced network configuration I would expect... you have to SSH into it to make many advanced changes. Not sure I would recommend it, unless you plan on going with all Ubiquity gear, or you need some keycard functionality.

 

[Devilmaycare]

It works pretty good. Although it actually doesn't have theadvanced network configuration I would expect... you have to SSH into it to make many advanced changes. Not sure I would recommend it, unless you plan on going with all Ubiquity gear, or you need some keycard functionality.

Interesting, that's not what I expected to hear. I was under the impression that they were more advanced. I'm going to have to dig more now. I'm been mad at my Netgear wifi router and had been thinking of doing Ubiquiti APs so I starting to look for router options that do and have the features I want. Key card functionality isn't one of them though. Mainly looking for better metering, VPN support, forwarding things correctly, etc.