Lakers @ Suns Tuesday game thread 11-22-2022

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Mainstreet

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The only place for Beverley is something like the WWE but I doubt they would want him.
 

82CardsGrad

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Chatter and trash talk does not excuse what Beverley did to Ayton.

The NBA and referees need to quit offering excuses for flagrant fouls meant to injure.

There should be no room in the NBA for this type of play. Period.
I agree… but, if we’re being real, the only reason Ayton fell was because he tripped over Reaves. Ayton later said he “sold” the hit to make it look worse than it was.
Look, I despise Pat Bev. But last night’s hit was far less than the hit he have CP3.
Should he be fined and suspended? Absolutely! But I’m not getting all that worked up about it, especially when it was a reaction to Ayton’s moronic flex…
 

Chaplin

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At least Patrick Beverley doesn't jump-kick players like Bruce Bowen did, or hip-check them into the stands like Robert Horry. But I suppose Beverley would probably not mind kneeing players in the groin like Bowen and Manu Ginobili were known to.
Except he DID hit Book in the groin last night. The guy is reckless and dangerous.
 
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I agree… but, if we’re being real, the only reason Ayton fell was because he tripped over Reaves. Ayton later said he “sold” the hit to make it look worse than it was.
Look, I despise Pat Bev. But last night’s hit was far less than the hit he have CP3.
Should he be fined and suspended? Absolutely! But I’m not getting all that worked up about it, especially when it was a reaction to Ayton’s moronic flex…

There is no excuse for Beverley charging another player and hitting him from behind.

What if Ayton had done that to another player? What do you think would have been the outcome?

In football that would have been a chop block, where the player is taken out by a hit high and low.
 

AzStevenCal

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At least Patrick Beverley doesn't jump-kick players like Bruce Bowen did, or hip-check them into the stands like Robert Horry. But I suppose Beverley would probably not mind kneeing players in the groin like Bowen and Manu Ginobili were known to.
I think you've missed a lot of NBA games. If, like me, you consider Karl Malone's play to be dirty (rather than just good, tough physical basketball as his supporters describe it), Beverley is the second dirtiest player that I've seen in the league.
 

Absolute Zero

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No justification for Beverly at all.

From this video, especially the final shots, it looked like Ayton chirped a bit, but was actually turning away from the player on the ground at the time he was leveled. Also, Ayton actually took a step back away from him with his left foot before Beverly did his deed. Should he have chirped, no. Should he have immediately walked away, yes. But did it in anyway justify Beverly's act, absolutely not.

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I think Ayton getting slammed about this here is a product of the hatred toward him on this board. If you read back through this game thread, its a bit over the top, the kind of stuff you would post about an opposing player, not one of our own.
 

Chaplin

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And Booker remained cool enough to call Beverley's behavior "nonsense"?

There are two equally valid ways to see that. One is that Booker is too cool to provoke into losing control. He's the opposite of Raja Bell that way. I can never see Booker clotheslining Patrick Beverley like Bell clotheslined Bryant. The other is that Booker could stand to be more intense.
We can talk about how PatBev needs to be clocked, yada, yada, yada. But Book is smart. He's our best player, he's not going to lose his cool on Beverly, come on.

What's your point then? Do you want Book to go off on Bev? That would be great in the short term but potentially disastrous in the long term.
 

AzStevenCal

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That all depends on what you call "a lot." My household cut the cable probably five years ago, so I've said before that I haven't gotten to watch most games in years. But as you know, Malone's career was long before that, so I certainly did see him after I became a fan in 1993. I was watching the regular-season game where Malone ran over Elliot Perry and sent him to the hospital (after which Perry reportedly didn't remember the hit, indicating how hard Malone smashed him). But more recently: I don't get to see firsthand how dirty Patrick Beverley is.

I'm not sure I was ever good enough at observing things on the court. Like everyone else, I saw lots of Malone in 1997 and 1998--the finals. But I wasn't observant enough to pick up that Malone was a thug. Ehh, that was in my early years of watching NBA games. At least I figured out in the mid-2000s how dangerous Bruce Bowen was. I was incredulous when he successfully jump-kicked Wally Sczerbiak to prevent Sczerbiak's shot. Should have never been allowed to play again.
My point wasn't that Karl Malone was even dirtier - it's that you were underselling how dirty Beverley is when you contrasted his actions to those of Bowen (3rd dirtiest all time) and Robert Horry (who doesn't even make the top 999 list for dirty players).
 

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I haven't been able to watch any of the Sun's games (too cheap for a provider:rolleyes:), but do follow their games on espn's "Gamecast". I would think people on here would have a somewhat positive thinking on DA's reaction, although not sportsmanship, it does show a "little" bit of aggressiveness on his part, which most people on here think is lacking and want to see from him, especially on the court.:evil:
 

AzStevenCal

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I haven't been able to watch any of the Sun's games (too cheap for a provider:rolleyes:), but do follow their games on espn's "Gamecast". I would think people on here would have a somewhat positive thinking on DA's reaction, although not sportsmanship, it does show a "little" bit of aggressiveness on his part, which most people on here think is lacking and want to see from him, especially on the court.:evil:
Nah, I see nothing positive about this interpretation of DA's behavior. That's not what I need to see when I call for him to be more aggressive. Personally, I don't believe he was trying to intimidate a fallen player but if he was, it's bush league on his part.

But regardless, since Ayton wasn't committing violence on the guy, what Beverley did is way out of line and he's done it to us before. Had it been his first dirty action, I'd probably say his behavior was wrong but understandable given what it probably looked like from his position but his history shows he's routinely the instigator, not the hero he makes himself out to be.
 

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This is why NBA players are the biggest ******* in the sports world

Since when does pushing someone in the back make you a tough guy or is “sticking up for a teammate”

Straight up clown **** and the fact that Reggie Miller bent over backwards to cheer on Patrick Beverley pisses me off like no announcer ever has
 

AzStevenCal

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I'm sure I'm merely suffering from the ignorance of not having watched the game; and what would help a lot is if we agreed on what words are appropriate to describe what Beverley did. I thought he "pushed" Ayton; it made him sound like an obnoxious five-year-old sneaking up behind someone. Then I saw someone state that Beverly "charged" at Ayton. So was he actually punching Ayton in the back?
No, it was just one body hit, and yes he definitely charged him, blindsided him. Not the dirtiest hit I've ever seen, not the dirtiest Beveley play I've even seen, not even close to the dirtiest play I've seen from Beverely against the Suns. But it's typical Beverley and the league's punishment needs to make it clear that it's unacceptable behavior.
 

overseascardfan

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I get sticking up for teammate but Beverly is a cheap shot artist. Booker said it best, shove a dude in his chest if you're going to man up on someone, not wait until they aren't looking. Beverly knows he would get leveled if he confronts dudes face to face, think Draymond / Poole, Beverly is Poole in every situation. Beverly looked back quick after shoving Ayton because he was scared someone was going to "Beverly" him.
 

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I'm sure I'm merely suffering from the ignorance of not having watched the game; and what would help a lot is if we agreed on what words are appropriate to describe what Beverley did. I thought he "pushed" Ayton; it made him sound like an obnoxious five-year-old sneaking up behind someone. Then I saw someone state that Beverly "charged" at Ayton. So was he actually punching Ayton in the back?
Shouldn't you at least watch a clip of what happened before commenting on it?
 

Finito

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That could be--I don't follow other sports--but as with the entire issue, I got bored of blaming players and started blaming the league, the system. It was the league's fault, for instance, for not banning Bruce Bowen after the jump-kick.

Regarding incidents more flagrant and injury-causing than Beverley's assault, I even blame ticket-buying arena fans. Yes, I blame them: for never choosing to punish the league with the only action it would care about: refusing to attend games and possibly even refusing to buy tickets. The only reason the league gets away with allowing players to cheat, or assault opponents, is because ticket-buying fans tolerate it. This can never be me, because I've never been to a real game in my life. Basically, I already do what I just suggested above; that is, I practice what I preach; but I'm only one man. (If I was a hypocrite by watching games on TV back when I could: well, I've stopped.)

There is even a case to be made that the NBA has never properly punished flagrant assaults in its entire history. Why wasn't Kermit Washington banned permanently after almost killing Rudy Tomjanovich? If NBA players are the biggest blankety-blanks, so is their league.

They condone it!!! I’ve seen so many people applauding Pat Bev for “sticking up for his teammate”

There is nothing tough about cheap shots
 

95pro

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You can see AD walk towards DA. DA was already turned in that direction and just kept trotting, that direction would be towards Reeves.

Note that Reeves fell like he got Pistons era hammered. There was no follow through from Book. Soft foul but rules are rules.

Anyway ayton still has the ball in his hands and “stood over” Reeves for a half second before turning, then gets the back shot. I know we all prefer to have a different kind of back shot ;)
AD did nothing to help Reeves. AD triggered the events. I don’t fault DA for anything in this situation. In fact he looked confused for a bit on what the call was. I know I was confused for a second there.
 

Chaplin

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He saw the play, my guess here is that Ayton was just pointing out that Reaves flopped and was turning around when Bev hit him. I didn't even see any camera angles where he was saying anything, let alone taunting (other than standing over him).

Bev pushed him, then both he and AD started walking towards DA as if they wanted to continue escalating.
 

Proximo

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Good grief, I just watched a clip from undisputed this morning and they acted like Booker is some thug, and that they fully support Beverly and wished he'd have gone after Book and hit Ayton harder.

Shannon was encouraging the Lakers to go after Book in the next game we play. Are they out of their minds? The foul was just a blocked shot with a bit of follow through, it wasn't an intentional strike at all.

Back in the 90's it would not have even been a foul call, let alone a flagrant or a reason to start a fight.
 

Superbone

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Find it funny that AD said "that's what we do, we got each other's back" in the post game presser. Dude literally did nothing even though he was right there and way closer than Beverly was...
PB&J had Ayton's back, alright. And Paul's before that.
 

Superbone

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Good grief, I just watched a clip from undisputed this morning and they acted like Booker is some thug, and that they fully support Beverly and wished he'd have gone after Book and hit Ayton harder.

Shannon was encouraging the Lakers to go after Book in the next game we play. Are they out of their minds? The foul was just a blocked shot with a bit of follow through, it wasn't an intentional strike at all.

Back in the 90's it would not have even been a foul call, let alone a flagrant or a reason to start a fight.
Yes. Yes they are.
 

95pro

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Good grief, I just watched a clip from undisputed this morning and they acted like Booker is some thug, and that they fully support Beverly and wished he'd have gone after Book and hit Ayton harder.

Shannon was encouraging the Lakers to go after Book in the next game we play. Are they out of their minds? The foul was just a blocked shot with a bit of follow through, it wasn't an intentional strike at all.

Back in the 90's it would not have even been a foul call, let alone a flagrant or a reason to start a fight.

I watched the entire clip, just wondering if they’re on crack just like Pat Bev
 

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You can see AD walk towards DA. DA was already turned in that direction and just kept trotting, that direction would be towards Reeves.

Note that Reeves fell like he got Pistons era hammered. There was no follow through from Book. Soft foul but rules are rules.

Anyway ayton still has the ball in his hands and “stood over” Reeves for a half second before turning, then gets the back shot. I know we all prefer to have a different kind of back shot ;)
AD did nothing to help Reeves. AD triggered the events. I don’t fault DA for anything in this situation. In fact he looked confused for a bit on what the call was. I know I was confused for a second there.
Ayton 100% went over to either taunt Reeves or mean mug him. AD was close but he didn’t get to DA until DA was standing right over him. Let’s not just make crap up because our #1 pick taunting an undrafted FA is super cringe.
 

cheesebeef

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Ayton 100% went over to either taunt Reeves or mean mug him. AD was close but he didn’t get to DA until DA was standing right over him. Let’s not just make crap up because our #1 pick taunting an undrafted FA is super cringe.
Agreed.
 

Bufalay

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I'm surprised they called a flagrant foul on Booker. I'm guessing if Beverley hadn't tackled Ayton it would have just been a normal foul.
 
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