Kelly Oubre...

[Chaplin]

It's gonna hurt real bad when he leaves in 2 years because we will have to max out Ayton, still have Rubio's nutso contract on the books, and have to get ready for Booker's next max (or god-forbid supermax) contract.

Cam and Mikal can't replace all that he brings to the table. Not even close.

A structure of:

2019: 25mm
2020: 23mm
2021: 22mm
2022: 21mm
2023: 20mm

would have easily got this done and still kept him out of the top 40 highest paid players in the league. By year 4: He would be close to the 60th or 70th highest paid player in the league. And would have been team friendly by year 3. That's what a #4 guy on a championship level team gets paid. Or a #3 level guy on a playoff squad.

And many of you may have been right..... we may have been negotiating against ourselves. Who knows, maybe 85mm to 95mm gets this done.

The fact that you think Rubio's contract is nutso invalidates your entire post.

 

[GatorAZ]

20 ppg on 14 shots is excellent but you got to hit that corner 3! If he start kicking down 3’s we can start thinking about him in that next-caliber-of-player category.

 

[Mainstreet]

20 ppg on 14 shots is excellent but you got to hit that corner 3! If he start kicking down 3’s we can start thinking about him in that next-caliber-of-player category.

I've had Oubre in this category since last season.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3133603/kelly-oubre-jr

 

[Covert Rain]

I just want the kid to continue to grow. I am still not anointing him the next anything. I just see growth and that is awesome. His energy seems to be non-stop.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The fact that you think Rubio's contract is nutso invalidates your entire post.

That contract.... was crazy. But in the grand scheme of things..... seems normal around here.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's gonna hurt real bad when he leaves in 2 years because we will have to max out Ayton, still have Rubio's nutso contract on the books, and have to get ready for Booker's next max (or god-forbid supermax) contract.

Cam and Mikal can't replace all that he brings to the table. Not even close.

A structure of:

2019: 25mm
2020: 23mm
2021: 22mm
2022: 21mm
2023: 20mm

would have easily got this done and still kept him out of the top 40 highest paid players in the league. By year 4: He would be close to the 60th or 70th highest paid player in the league. And would have been team friendly by year 3. That's what a #4 guy on a championship level team gets paid. Or a #3 level guy on a playoff squad.

And many of you may have been right..... we may have been negotiating against ourselves. Who knows, maybe 85mm to 95mm gets this done.

Why are you even looking that far into the future, especially in such a pessimistic way? The team has had a remarkable turnaround this year with virtually every minute played being quality basketball. There hasn't been a minute in any of the 4 games where the Suns were out of that game. The turnaround has been incredible and a lot of fun to watch, have you been paying any attention to it or are you too busy looking into your crystal ball that says Mikal won't get better, neither will Cam, and in 2 years they'll struggle to replace what Oubre brings.

Why don't we count down the days left on Booker's deal while we're at it, that sounds like fun.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That contract.... was crazy. But in the grand scheme of things..... seems normal around here.

Not even close to crazy. I am not even sure it is a slight overpay. Now what you wanted to pay Oubre . . .

 

[Mainstreet]

That contract.... was crazy. But in the grand scheme of things..... seems normal around here.

I will say right now Oubre is underpaid. If the Suns could have him locked up for more years with a slightly larger contract they should have.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That contract.... was crazy. But in the grand scheme of things..... seems normal around here.

You seem to have a lot of highly negative opinions about a team and an organization that you claim you stopped watching or following years ago. So, who or what is shaping these opinions for you?

I'm not much of a Rubio fan (I still wish we hadn't signed him) but complaining because he is now the 75th highest player seems strange. Especially when you look at the players right around him (Dieng, Brandon Knight, Schroeder, Bledsoe, Mahinmi, Fournier, Biyombo, James Johnson, Capela, Iguodala etc.). Maybe he's overpaid, I'm not a good judge of things like that, but it certainly doesn't seem like his contract is "crazy" or "nutso" as you've suggested.

As for my still not wanting Rubio, it's because I believe that in today's game you NEED a PG that positively impacts the game (to at least some degree) as a shooter, scorer, distributor and defender. Granted, he's replacing a group of PG's that could do none of those things so he's a huge step-up but I wanted the whole package. But I wouldn't argue against the possibility/probability that the whole package just wasn't available.

EDIT: I shouldn't have said that "I still wish we hadn't signed him", it's not the way I really feel. What I should have said was that I regret we couldn't get a complete PG. Given what we had and what was likely available, we are very fortunate Rubio was available for us.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You seem to have a lot of highly negative opinions about a team and an organization that you claim you stopped watching or following years ago. So, who or what is shaping these opinions for you?

I'm not much of a Rubio fan (I still wish we hadn't signed him) but complaining because he is now the 75th highest player seems strange. Especially when you look at the players right around him (Dieng, Brandon Knight, Schroeder, Bledsoe, Mahinmi, Fournier, Biyombo, James Johnson, Capela, Iguodala etc.). Maybe he's overpaid, I'm not a good judge of things like that, but it certainly doesn't seem like his contract is "crazy" or "nutso" as you've suggested.

As for my still not wanting Rubio, it's because I believe that in today's game you NEED a PG that positively impacts the game (to at least some degree) as a shooter, scorer, distributor and defender. Granted, he's replacing a group of PG's that could do none of those things so he's a huge step-up but I wanted the whole package. But I wouldn't argue against the possibility/probability that the whole package just wasn't available.

The whole package is an all star+ and there just aren’t a lot of those. Who else did you want that filled all those buckets? Deangelo? Not a defender and a moderate distributor.

while I think rubios lack of a jump shot is really obvious how it negatively impacts defensive spacing against us, his calm, playmaking and defense are much better than anything we’ve had in some time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The whole package is an all star+ and there just aren’t a lot of those. Who else did you want that filled all those buckets? Deangelo? Not a defender and a moderate distributor.

while I think rubios lack of a jump shot is really obvious how it negatively impacts defensive spacing against us, his calm, playmaking and defense are much better than anything we’ve had in some time.

No, I would have taken Rubio over Russell even at the same price. As I said, I'm not a big Rubio fan but I don't hate his game (just his shot) - I can't say the same about Russell.

I know that the perfect PG wasn't out there for us but the closer we get to that, the better off we'll be at least until the league changes it's rules and refereeing focus again. Rubio, with his skills, and a decent enough shot to force regular coverage, would have been a nice add. His complete lack of confidence in his shot though allows his defender to double off of him without consequence (especially when the other team has a solid rim protector out there).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No, I would have taken Rubio over Russell even at the same price. As I said, I'm not a big Rubio fan but I don't hate his game (just his shot) - I can't say the same about Russell.

I know that the perfect PG wasn't out there for us but the closer we get to that, the better off we'll be at least until the league changes it's rules and refereeing focus again. Rubio, with his skills, and a decent enough shot to force regular coverage, would have been a nice add. His complete lack of confidence in his shot though allows his defender to double off of him without consequence (especially when the other team has a solid rim protector out there).

It becomes painfully obvious when he runs the pick and role because his defender goes under the pick every time and the action results in nada.

 

[Covert Rain]

The whole package is an all star+ and there just aren’t a lot of those. Who else did you want that filled all those buckets? Deangelo? Not a defender and a moderate distributor.

while I think rubios lack of a jump shot is really obvious how it negatively impacts defensive spacing against us, his calm, playmaking and defense are much better than anything we’ve had in some time.

Rubio has already made a big impact. We are seeing that he can drive to the basket. We are seeing some easy passes that seemed like none of our PGs could ever make. It seems to have had an impact on Booker's passing. Unless we could pull off a trade for an all star PG Rubio is the next best thing.

 

[Chaplin]

Rubio has already made a big impact. We are seeing that he can drive to the basket. We are seeing some easy passes that seemed like none of our PGs could ever make. It seems to have had an impact on Booker's passing. Unless we could pull off a trade for an all star PG Rubio is the next best thing.

People are also forgetting the lobs to Ayton in game 1. Rubio’s contribution with a full team shouldn’t be underestimated right now.

 

[JCSunsfan]

People are also forgetting the lobs to Ayton in game 1. Rubio’s contribution with a full team shouldn’t be underestimated right now.

He has limitations, but I am very happy for what he brings to the game. Very few players are without flaws. Rubio's ball movement, distribution, handle, and defense are quite helpful. Steve Nash was a horrible defender in spite of his many great attributes. I am happy to have Rubio.

 

[Hoop Head]

Rubio has already made a big impact. We are seeing that he can drive to the basket. We are seeing some easy passes that seemed like none of our PGs could ever make. It seems to have had an impact on Booker's passing. Unless we could pull off a trade for an all star PG Rubio is the next best thing.

I was thinking about that while I was listening to one of the Suns podcast last night. I can't remember which one it was but it was prior to the Jazz game and they were gushing over Rubio and I started thinking about how Booker never had a PG to learn from. He's never really played with a true NBA PG and he definitely hasn't had a PG to help teach him anything. It looks like Booker has learned a lot from being able to practice with Rubio and pick his brain some in addition to playing along side of him.

McD failed Devin Booker and it's credit to who Booker is that he didn't end up like Chriss, Bender, Ennis, Jackson, etc. He was asked to be our franchise player in his 3rd year, 3 games in. He had a tumultuous rookie year with a fractured locker room to start things off and Markieff openly challenging Hornacek until he was canned. Earl Watson took over, things got a little better but not really and throughout that there was a ton of injuries that thrust Booker into a bigger role than anyone anticipated. Year 2 was all under Watson and had Knight not wanting to be the Sixth Man. Year 3, Bledsoe doesn't want to be here after 2 of the worst losses in franchise history 3 games into the season and Watson gets canned. Booker got shoved into a starting PG role that year and who he did he learn from? Often injured Bledsoe? Knight, who didn't want to be here and who was told he wasn't a PG by the coach? He learned from Ulis, basically, who was a PG because of his size more than anything to do with his play style.

Booker took all that and got crapped on by the media for being an "empty stats guy". How he hasn't asked out is amazing, how he's turned into a legit stud though is astonishing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Rubio has already made a big impact. We are seeing that he can drive to the basket. We are seeing some easy passes that seemed like none of our PGs could ever make. It seems to have had an impact on Booker's passing. Unless we could pull off a trade for an all star PG Rubio is the next best thing.

This is probably true but IMO having an all star level PG is a priority in today's game. We were so weak at PG last year that Rubio is a huge upgrade for us but I don't believe he's our solution, though he is a very a workable stopgap.

 

[Covert Rain]

This is probably true but IMO having an all star level PG is a priority in today's game. We were so weak at PG last year that Rubio is a huge upgrade for us but I don't believe he's our solution, though he is a very a workable stopgap.

Depends. I think you can easily get a way with a PG like Rubio just fine if you have say two legit all-stars at other positions.

 

[95pro]

Depends. I think you can easily get a way with a PG like Rubio just fine if you have say two legit all-stars at other positions.

and shooters all around you.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is probably true but IMO having an all star level PG is a priority in today's game. We were so weak at PG last year that Rubio is a huge upgrade for us but I don't believe he's our solution, though he is a very a workable stopgap.

I disagree with you. I don’t think an all star pg is a necessity. Particularly if you have a dominant scoring big, shooters and at least 2-3 guys capable of getting their own shot (booker and oubre).

 

[AzStevenCal]

Depends. I think you can easily get a way with a PG like Rubio just fine if you have say two legit all-stars at other positions.

I disagree with you. I don’t think an all star pg is a necessity. Particularly if you have a dominant scoring big, shooters and at least 2-3 guys capable of getting their own shot (booker and oubre).

I said it was a priority, not that you couldn't win without an all star level guard. And note that I said "all star level" rather than "all star" which to me probably doubles the target group.

In today's NBA, the perimeter shooter/ballhandler has a rules based advantage over all the other position players. It's why shooting guards such as Harden have been moved or at least tried at the one spot - so that a team can put as many shooters on the court as possible. If we were still playing 2005 basketball, Minnesota would have never let Rubio go (same with the Jazz). He's a great PG in yesterday's game but just an average one in the current NBA.

 

[Covert Rain]

I said it was a priority, not that you couldn't win without an all star level guard. And note that I said "all star level" rather than "all star" which to me probably doubles the target group.

In today's NBA, the perimeter shooter/ballhandler has a rules based advantage over all the other position players. It's why shooting guards such as Harden have been moved or at least tried at the one spot - so that a team can put as many shooters on the court as possible. If we were still playing 2005 basketball, Minnesota would have never let Rubio go (same with the Jazz). He's a great PG in yesterday's game but just an average one in the current NBA.

I got you but still disagree it needs to be a priority depending on the make up of your team as described above. If you are starting from scratch on don't have those players? I would agree with that. Your priority at that point might be trying to get an all star at that position.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You seem to have a lot of highly negative opinions about a team and an organization that you claim you stopped watching or following years ago. So, who or what is shaping these opinions for you?

I'm not much of a Rubio fan (I still wish we hadn't signed him) but complaining because he is now the 75th highest player seems strange. Especially when you look at the players right around him (Dieng, Brandon Knight, Schroeder, Bledsoe, Mahinmi, Fournier, Biyombo, James Johnson, Capela, Iguodala etc.). Maybe he's overpaid, I'm not a good judge of things like that, but it certainly doesn't seem like his contract is "crazy" or "nutso" as you've suggested.

As for my still not wanting Rubio, it's because I believe that in today's game you NEED a PG that positively impacts the game (to at least some degree) as a shooter, scorer, distributor and defender. Granted, he's replacing a group of PG's that could do none of those things so he's a huge step-up but I wanted the whole package. But I wouldn't argue against the possibility/probability that the whole package just wasn't available.

Fair.....

I still watch obsessively from afar. I used to be obsessive from a close proximity. hahaha

My problem with the deal is the years. He is going to be a huge issue for us when we are trying to extend Oubre (probably close to 25mm per) Ayton (max), Bridges (middle of the road money), Booker (possible super max), and still fill out our roster.

We are going to be tighter than a quarter in Sarvers back pocket in 3 years. I would have been much happier if we would have locked up Oubre for a bit more than he deserved now, knowing we could then budget it in when all these other contracts come up.

And finally.....Rubio's value is mitigated by the time he will take away from Booker being on the ball IMO. Point Book will be used less and it may not be the best possible thing for our 23 year old lion.

 

[95pro]

If Booker and Ayton can take a pay cut...kind of like Durant did.

 

[Chaplin]

Fair.....

I still watch obsessively from afar. I used to be obsessive from a close proximity. hahaha

My problem with the deal is the years. He is going to be a huge issue for us when we are trying to extend Oubre (probably close to 25mm per) Ayton (max), Bridges (middle of the road money), Booker (possible super max), and still fill out our roster.

We are going to be tighter than a quarter in Sarvers back pocket in 3 years. I would have been much happier if we would have locked up Oubre for a bit more than he deserved now, knowing we could then budget it in when all these other contracts come up.

And finally.....Rubio's value is mitigated by the time he will take away from Booker being on the ball IMO. Point Book will be used less and it may not be the best possible thing for our 23 year old lion.

Extending Booker again won't be an issue until 2 years AFTER Rubio's contract expires.