KD... A Changing Perspective

clyde2tw

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I don't think this is accurate.

So far he has been 1-B on the Suns, but I fully expect over a longer period of time he will become 1-A. They just haven't figured it out yet.

I have no idea why you would not want him to be 1-A, because he is a more efficient scorer than - well almost anyone in history. Also, he was not the 1-B in Golden State - he was the 1-A.

What you don't seem to gather is we are in a very bad spot financially. In my opinion the roster we have currently is likely the best roster we will have with KD, Book and Ayton all on the same team. I really think this season might be the best chance this team has, it's arguable that familiarity of our starters may be more valuable than the bench, but KD and CP3 only get older next year and more fragile.

Bottom line, I really don't like the deal that we made at this point, because thus far this team does not look like it is good enough to win, and I don't think it gets any better in the next 2-3 years.
I agree with the first but not the second part. Book is not as good as a healthy Kawhi or Jimmy Butler yet. Teams will find a way to stop him with more success than the Clippers. KD is the more battle tested superstar among the two. With more games to gel with the team, and deep into the playoffs KD's value will shine through more. But they really complement each other well, with only so little time together. Once they organically integrated DA and CP3 into the equation, they'd have sufficient variety on offensive weapon to crush the opposing teams.
In this playoffs, the league stopped calling foul on each body contact the off. player initiates on their drives to basket. This change actually shifts favor to midrange games which the Suns have the best players for. So, I'm optimistic about Suns' chance to get the first championship in franchise history now.
 

Covert Rain

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This is Book's team. Durant was supposed to come in here be the second star and take pressure off of Booker. Durant has done just that. The Booker/Durant combo is the best combo in the playoffs. Durant has checked all those boxes. Having said that, the bench is subpar. The minutes Booker/KD are logging is worrisome. The Playoffs are a game of attrition and even if this team does get to the finals? I have to wonder how much gas those two will have left.

Having said that? I still do this trade and twice on Sunday. It's much easier to build out a bench then it is to get a Superstar to play along with Booker. That is infinity more complex to get done. Now all I can do is hope being top heavy is enough to get it done this year. If not, hope they can pull some pieces together to round out the bench somehow for next year.
 
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BirdGangThing

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If you look at the stat sheets all the top stars are playing around 40 minutes - reducing minutes reduces the chances of winning - that's just how it is this year
 

ASUCHRIS

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Also - when a ton of resources are invested in your top players, there is going to be a bigger dropoff with the secondary players. Jones has done a pretty bad job with the bench choices.
 

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Suns are 12-1 with Durant playing and he’s been awesome since joining, so I have a hard time buying any of the criticism here.

I have no clue what the coaching staff has in mind with adjusting the offense in the offseason as I dont trust Monty anymore, but id have to imagine that something gets better with respect to creating plays for him and not just a reason not to double Booker
 

Treesquid PhD

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KD is being used as a decoy. The offense is still running as if KD is now a super Mikal. If you adjust the offense to have KD with the ball more his impact should increase, if you plant him in the corner his impact will be limited to the best weak side shot maker in the NBA. But I think this series he goes off, I just think it's coming.
 

Cheesebeef

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KD is being used as a decoy. The offense is still running as if KD is now a super Mikal. If you adjust the offense to have KD with the ball more his impact should increase, if you plant him in the corner his impact will be limited to the best weak side shot maker in the NBA. But I think this series he goes off, I just think it's coming.
It really speaks to what some of us criticize Monty the most for… an inability to make adjustments.

To treat KD as a glorified decoy/super Mikal Bridges when he’s arguably still the best player left in the playoffs is bizarre.

I hope that changes this round.
 

Phrazbit

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KD is being used as a decoy. The offense is still running as if KD is now a super Mikal. If you adjust the offense to have KD with the ball more his impact should increase, if you plant him in the corner his impact will be limited to the best weak side shot maker in the NBA. But I think this series he goes off, I just think it's coming.
It really speaks to what some of us criticize Monty the most for… an inability to make adjustments.

To treat KD as a glorified decoy/super Mikal Bridges when he’s arguably still the best player left in the playoffs is bizarre.

I hope that changes this round.

Well... it simply isn't happening.

KD is not being used in the Bridges role at all. He is often bringing the ball up the court and he is almost never... ever... in the corner.

I posted his heat map as a Sun compared to Bridges as a Sun last week, they are about as different as they could be.
 

Cheesebeef

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Well... it simply isn't happening.

KD is not being used in the Bridges role at all. He is often bringing the ball up the court and he is almost never... ever... in the corner.
Bridges was often bringing the ball up the court this year. And we're watching with our own eyes him decoyed to the side down the stretch of Game 1 and 5.
I posted his heat map as a Sun compared to Bridges as a Sun last week, they are about as different as they could be.
do you believe we are maxing the most out of KD's abilities?
 

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Well... it simply isn't happening.

KD is not being used in the Bridges role at all. He is often bringing the ball up the court and he is almost never... ever... in the corner.

I posted his heat map as a Sun compared to Bridges as a Sun last week, they are about as different as they could be.
Agreed, but when we spread the floor to try and get Booker some iso some still consider it using KD as a decoy. Or if KD gets doubled and heaven forbid he passes the ball some consider it using KD as a decoy. Granted there are times when KD is off to the side, but to act like that's primarily how we roll is not factual. Decoys don't drop 30 burgers lol
 
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Phrazbit

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Bridges was often bringing the ball up the court this year. And we're watching with our own eyes him decoyed to the side down the stretch of Game 1 and 5.

do you believe we are maxing the most out of KD's abilities?

I believe that KD is deferring. We're running plays for him and he is passing out of them, his assist and turnovers were both well above what he did for us during the season.

The Clippers were also throwing frustrating him with physical play and throwing a double at him anytime he got within 12 feet.

Also, Booker was on fire and we spent a lot of time letting Booker do his thing.

One thing I am certain of, is that he isn't being used at all like Bridges. They are not playing in the same areas or receiving the ball in the same situations.

Durant is actually playing better for us than he did for Brooklyn last year in the playoffs. Boston gave him fits.
 

Russ Smith

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He's not as good as he was pre injury but he's still amazing. The thing with KD and it was more true with the Warriors but still true now, his biggest value is at the end of the clock when you need a shot, you can just throw him the ball, clear out and he'll get a shot. He might not always make it, but he'll get a good shot he's too tall and long not to.

You don't have to run a set or really anything you just have to get him the ball. That's such a luxury to have in a tight game.

He's a walking mismatch.

Also in the Denver series his length will be a huge deal because Joker is so good down low he's going to give Ayton fits and it will be a huge advantage to have another almost 7 footer down there to change his shots.
 

Treesquid PhD

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Agreed, but when we spread the floor to try and get Booker some iso some still consider it using KD as a decoy. Or if KD gets doubled and heaven forbid he passes the ball some consider it using KD as a decoy. Granted there are times when KD is off to the side, but to act like that's primarily how we roll is not factual. Decoys don't drop 30 burgers lol

Kevin Durant is extremely efficient getting to 28 on 17 shots per game with 52% efficiency and 43 from 3% and he gets to the line and shots 90 plus percent, the math adds up pretty quick. He could get to 50 easy if you use him correctly. While it maybe fun to Kliff Kingsbury this and spread the offense, Denver is bad at the pick and roll so pick and roll them. Pick and roll them with KD handling, it creates gravity to the middle, it still leaves Booker one on one. Paul is probably wide ass open in the corner, he can shoot it.

Then run Spain PnR with Book and have your Dorian Finney Durant occasionally.

I didn't see a heat map, but my eyes are telling me I saw Mikal bring the ball up this year, Mikal was spot up in the corner, he would occasionally dive in, but look at how good he is as a 1 now. This is KD, you have no right to be disappointed if he is playing the Finney Smith role.
 

Treesquid PhD

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He's not as good as he was pre injury but he's still amazing. The thing with KD and it was more true with the Warriors but still true now, his biggest value is at the end of the clock when you need a shot, you can just throw him the ball, clear out and he'll get a shot. He might not always make it, but he'll get a good shot he's too tall and long not to.

You don't have to run a set or really anything you just have to get him the ball. That's such a luxury to have in a tight game.

He's a walking mismatch.

Also in the Denver series his length will be a huge deal because Joker is so good down low he's going to give Ayton fits and it will be a huge advantage to have another almost 7 footer down there to change his shots.
Exactly, so why stash him in the corner? He already has the baseline and the sideline defending him. Then you just need to put one on him and a shader and you have basically 4 people on him. No coach would ever use peak Lebron or peak Jordan this way. And yes KD is in that scoring club.

KD looks fine on his drives, he can still run the floor his defense is really good, his passing isn't great but that's ok Booker's is. Maybe this is an offseason thing, where Paul needs to leave because Monty will always defer to Chris. But putting a shot creator (no a top 5 all time shot creator) in the corner is not what the corner is really meant for in the modern NBA. The corner is for guys like JO or Criag and to some extend old Chris Paul. But not KD i'm sorry, I am not buying the Kingsbury spread idea. I watched a lot of Brooklyn with KD this is not how they used him at all. I have never seen him stashed as a decoy.

Would you want KJ stashed in the corner?
What about Chuck?
How about Amare?
Nash in the corner?
Booker in the corner?
Chambers Corner guy?
Kidd?
Thunder Dan chilling in the corner?

KD is 10x better than all of these guys, even Booker and Booker is the greatest Sun.

Come on peeps let's not overthink basketball. Pick and roll Denver to death, run Joker make his fat ass work. Limit the offensive rebounds, Suns win in six.
 

Cheesebeef

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Exactly, so why stash him in the corner? He already has the baseline and the sideline defending him. Then you just need to put one on him and a shader and you have basically 4 people on him. No coach would ever use peak Lebron or peak Jordan this way. And yes KD is in that scoring club.

KD looks fine on his drives, he can still run the floor his defense is really good, his passing isn't great but that's ok Booker's is. Maybe this is an offseason thing, where Paul needs to leave because Monty will always defer to Chris. But putting a shot creator (no a top 5 all time shot creator) in the corner is not what the corner is really meant for in the modern NBA. The corner is for guys like JO or Criag and to some extend old Chris Paul. But not KD i'm sorry, I am not buying the Kingsbury spread idea. I watched a lot of Brooklyn with KD this is not how they used him at all. I have never seen him stashed as a decoy.

Would you want KJ stashed in the corner?
What about Chuck?
How about Amare?
Nash in the corner?
Booker in the corner?
Chambers Corner guy?
Kidd?

Come on peeps let's not overthink basketball. Pick and roll Denver to death, run Joker make his fat ass work. Limit the offensive rebounds, Suns win in six.
A KD/Ayton pick and roll should be a no brainer. At least just to mix it up a little bit and let KD cook up top every once in a while. When he does get it, no picks are set and it’s just 1 on 1 iso ball with ten seconds on the shot clock.
 

Treesquid PhD

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A KD/Ayton pick and roll should be a no brainer. At least just to mix it up a little bit and let KD cook up top every once in a while. When he does get it, no picks are set and it’s just 1 on 1 iso ball with ten seconds on the shot clock.
Denver has no answer for it. They are horrible at the pick and roll. Make Joker work he never works, this KD decoy ******** is Kliff level IQ. But most Cards fans were arguing with me that tampering was a good thing, and the pick swap was a good thing, so I question their intelligence. But hey they will always have Kliff chilling in his house during the summer with a fire pit lol.
 

Cheesebeef

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Denver has no answer for it. They are horrible at the pick and roll. Make Joker work he never works, this KD decoy ******** is Kliff level IQ. But most Cards fans were arguing with me that tampering was a good thing, and the pick swap was a good thing, so I question their intelligence. But hey they will always have Kliff chilling in his house during the summer with a fire pit lol.
Most of those same fans argued Kliff deserved his 5 year contract extension and Steve Keim was a great GM.
 

Russ Smith

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Exactly, so why stash him in the corner? He already has the baseline and the sideline defending him. Then you just need to put one on him and a shader and you have basically 4 people on him. No coach would ever use peak Lebron or peak Jordan this way. And yes KD is in that scoring club.

KD looks fine on his drives, he can still run the floor his defense is really good, his passing isn't great but that's ok Booker's is. Maybe this is an offseason thing, where Paul needs to leave because Monty will always defer to Chris. But putting a shot creator (no a top 5 all time shot creator) in the corner is not what the corner is really meant for in the modern NBA. The corner is for guys like JO or Criag and to some extend old Chris Paul. But not KD i'm sorry, I am not buying the Kingsbury spread idea. I watched a lot of Brooklyn with KD this is not how they used him at all. I have never seen him stashed as a decoy.

Would you want KJ stashed in the corner?
What about Chuck?
How about Amare?
Nash in the corner?
Booker in the corner?
Chambers Corner guy?
Kidd?
Thunder Dan chilling in the corner?

KD is 10x better than all of these guys, even Booker and Booker is the greatest Sun.

Come on peeps let's not overthink basketball. Pick and roll Denver to death, run Joker make his fat ass work. Limit the offensive rebounds, Suns win in six.

I agree with the basic point. My guess is maybe Monty thinks he gets more value by having KD in the corner because it creates more space for Booker since even in the corner KD is going to attract attention?

One of the points being made in teh bay area right now is Sacramento was doubling Curry in the backcourt last night so he couldn't get the ball inbounds, everyone thinks Kerr should just move Curry into the frontcourt, have someone else bring the ball up. The idea being if they're going to double him that far away put him in the corner off the ball so that they have to cover almost the entire court with 3 defenders against 4. My guess is that's what Monty is doing with KD? Make them defend virtually the whole court with no help because they don't want to leave KD.

I'm sure they'll try and put Joker in the pick and roll that's really his only weakness on the court his defense. He's such a good passer I think the size of KD will be a real asset on those lobs to Gordon that he throws so well.
 

Treesquid PhD

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I agree with the basic point. My guess is maybe Monty thinks he gets more value by having KD in the corner because it creates more space for Booker since even in the corner KD is going to attract attention?

One of the points being made in teh bay area right now is Sacramento was doubling Curry in the backcourt last night so he couldn't get the ball inbounds, everyone thinks Kerr should just move Curry into the frontcourt, have someone else bring the ball up. The idea being if they're going to double him that far away put him in the corner off the ball so that they have to cover almost the entire court with 3 defenders against 4. My guess is that's what Monty is doing with KD? Make them defend virtually the whole court with no help because they don't want to leave KD.

I'm sure they'll try and put Joker in the pick and roll that's really his only weakness on the court his defense. He's such a good passer I think the size of KD will be a real asset on those lobs to Gordon that he throws so well.
Durant not playing in the corner has destroyed the defense so far.
 

Treesquid PhD

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Agreed, but when we spread the floor to try and get Booker some iso some still consider it using KD as a decoy. Or if KD gets doubled and heaven forbid he passes the ball some consider it using KD as a decoy. Granted there are times when KD is off to the side, but to act like that's primarily how we roll is not factual. Decoys don't drop 30 burgers lol
KingsGang do you see what I mean? Durant should never see the ******* corner bro, stick to your tampering poverty franchise. But I am sure you will argue that KD needs to sit in the corner lol.
 

BirdGangThing

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KingsGang do you see what I mean? Durant should never see the ******* corner bro, stick to your tampering poverty franchise. But I am sure you will argue that KD needs to sit in the corner lol.
Umm never said I wanted to see or sit KD in any corner lol but okay
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Exactly, so why stash him in the corner? He already has the baseline and the sideline defending him. Then you just need to put one on him and a shader and you have basically 4 people on him. No coach would ever use peak Lebron or peak Jordan this way. And yes KD is in that scoring club.

KD looks fine on his drives, he can still run the floor his defense is really good, his passing isn't great but that's ok Booker's is. Maybe this is an offseason thing, where Paul needs to leave because Monty will always defer to Chris. But putting a shot creator (no a top 5 all time shot creator) in the corner is not what the corner is really meant for in the modern NBA. The corner is for guys like JO or Criag and to some extend old Chris Paul. But not KD i'm sorry, I am not buying the Kingsbury spread idea. I watched a lot of Brooklyn with KD this is not how they used him at all. I have never seen him stashed as a decoy.

Would you want KJ stashed in the corner?
What about Chuck?
How about Amare?
Nash in the corner?
Booker in the corner?
Chambers Corner guy?
Kidd?
Thunder Dan chilling in the corner?

KD is 10x better than all of these guys, even Booker and Booker is the greatest Sun.

Come on peeps let's not overthink basketball. Pick and roll Denver to death, run Joker make his fat ass work. Limit the offensive rebounds, Suns win in six.
I feel like we never put joker in the pnr after the first quarter.
 
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