K1

[Germz249]

Murray is questionable for this week.. sigh..

 

[ajcardfan]

Kyler has to want to. He has to accept that he's not good enough, which, for someone as gifted as he is and who has experienced the degree of success he's had since high school, I believe is a very tough pill to swallow. Is Kyler truly willing to do the work? THAT is far more the issue than "finding proper coaching."

This is crossing the line from "legitimate concerns" about his play into pure bullfeces speculation about Kyler's character.

 

[Russ Smith]

Murray is questionable for this week.. sigh..

So far it sounds like they think he can play they just want to make sure he's healthy enough that he can. Kliff said he's optimistic and hopeful Kyler will play, just wants to be sure he can.

He has an extra day so he can get more treatment and we have an extra day to get Streveler and Hundley ready to go if need be.

But I sure hope Kyler can go, would be crazy seeing an elimination game for 2 teams both starting a backup who's never thrown an NFL pass in a regular season game, Streveler hasn't even done it in an exhibition game.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Here is some reality for some on this thread.

With a game left, in his second season, Murray ranks here on the ALL TIME Cardinals list

Completions: 2nd (2nd to Warner 2008)

Attempts: 5th

Completion Percentage (At least 25 attempts): 1st (tied with Warner 2008)

Passing TDs: 6th (2 away from 3rd)

Total TDs: 1st

INTs: 63rd (meaning 63 worst performances)

Quarterback Rating: 5th

QBR: 4th

 

[SoonerLou]

Here is some reality for some on this thread.

With a game left, in his second season, Murray ranks here on the ALL TIME Cardinals list

Completions: 2nd (2nd to Warner 2008)

Attempts: 5th

Completion Percentage (At least 25 attempts): 1st (tied with Warner 2008)

Passing TDs: 6th (2 away from 3rd)

Total TDs: 1st

INTs: 63rd (meaning 63 worst performances)
Quarterback Rating: 5th

QBR: 4th

Total TDs as well right? 37

I think Palmer had like 36 total in 2015.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

If you read the above and think that K1 is the problem on this team....well then lets examine this:

The criticisms I have seen laid at Murray:

Bad Attitude
Bad Leader
Can't read defenses/isn't smart enough
Is only a running QB
Poor fundamentals
Doesn't work hard enough


What possibly could be leading those sort of criticisms in the face of a season like above

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Total TDs as well right? 37

I think Palmer had like 36 total in 2015.

Exactly correct.

 

[SoonerLou]

This is crossing the line from "legitimate concerns" about his play into pure bullfeces speculation about Kyler's character.

When criticism veers towards pessimism.

Cardinals have a 2nd year QB who makes a pro bowl, has almost 40 total Tds, and is one game away from making the playoffs. All the while even the biggest fans here know he has a ways to go. Just on the surface fans typically have rose colored glasses and enjoy the moment. Enjoy the process. Whether it truly works out or not time will tell.

Dont know if its years of losing, never really having developed a franchise QB in years, but its like people are preparing themselves for it not working out. Just so they can say they were ahead of it. Board acts as if we've already given him Jared Goff or Carson Wentz money.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

This is crossing the line from "legitimate concerns" about his play into pure bullfeces speculation about Kyler's character.

What possibly could be framing such assumptions of character / leadership / intelligence?

Forgot effort, work habits, and toughness. Those have started bubbling up as well.

 

[BritCard]

Reading the whole field, recognizing blitzes and going through multiple reads isn't something the vast majority of seasoned franchise QBs had from the start. It develops over years. Maybe Kyler will never be the best full field reader or protection caller, but what he can create with his legs is what makes him special. It's very unfortunate that his running ability is often kinda held against him in here. It's a big bonus, not a burden. Take away the running from Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray beats him by miles as a pure passer. Kyler is already in the top 15 or top 12 of NFL QBs. Probably top 10 if you make a league-wide poll. Once the game slows even more down, he matures in game management, and is calm enough to find receivers on the run, he will be in the elite QB tier for years.

It is a a great bonus, I love his running, but like all bonuses you have to get your main job right first and thats to pass consistently. You say he's a top 10-15 QB but is he if you take away his legs?

He's 21st in passer rating (he was also 21st last year) which is the metric that's been used forever to measure passing efficiency. He's behind guys like Trubiski, Bridgewater, Mayfield, Minshew, Brandon Allen, Kyle Allen, Taysom Hill etc

The only QB's he is ahead of worth anything are Big Ben, Goff, Jimmy G, Dalton, Matt Ryan, Newton, Darnold, Lock, Wentz and Tua.

He's very much in with a group of QB's you would say "Oof I wouldn't want them as my QB".

As your second point, I keep hearing this "It takes years to learn these things". Does it? Justin Herbert is a rookie, he's been superb and has a better passer rating. Lamar Jackosn in his 2nd year last year had a passer rating nearly 20 points higher than Kyler has now. In Deshaun Watson's rookie and 2nd years he was better than Kyler has been. And let's not even start on Mahomes.

And it's not like any of those QB's came from college systems playing a pro style offense where they were reading defenses and calling audibles. They learned it, quickly.

So the question is. Why hasn't Kyler learned more already? If you are an NFL QB it's a full time job. A full, full time job. You get your time off early in the year and from spring through to the end of the season the best QB's are studying, practicing and learning full time. Not streaming COD on Twitch within the last 7 days.

 

[Adrian]

If you read the above and think that K1 is the problem on this team....well then lets examine this:

The criticisms I have seen laid at Murray:

Bad Attitude
Bad Leader
Can't read defenses/isn't smart enough
Is only a running QB
Poor fundamentals
Doesn't work hard enough


What possibly could be leading those sort of criticisms in the face of a season like above

*doesn't even listen to Larry.lolz

 

[BritCard]

and I believe that it is Kyle's inconsistencies that make it tough to really evaluate the offensive scheme and some situational decisions.

A couple concerns of mine that I really don't know the answer to.

1-Is there are reason Kyler does not audible or utilize hot routes at that LOS? This is a very important aspect of playing QB and running a solid offense. Getting out of plays that the defense has the correct call for and into better plays is something every top QB does in the NFL. I feel like I have a guess about this, but I wish I knew.

2-Why does Kyler not set the protection? Maybe I am missing it but it seems like Cole is the one who I hear calling out the Mike and setting the protections.

3-Does Kyler call motion pre-snap? Or is that limited to a coaching or play decision. I have seen coaches do this two ways and I am really curious about this. Some coaches will design plays with pre-snnap motion and others will task their QB to determine how much pre-snap movement they want to try and identify coverage pre-snap.

Things I have asked myself. On point 3 I've thought about this a lot and to me it seems like it's part of the play design, not something Kyler is calling for. He's only signalling for the sake of timing.

 

[82CardsGrad]

This is crossing the line from "legitimate concerns" about his play into pure bullfeces speculation about Kyler's character.

Huh? Did I say he isn't willing to do the work? Calm down man...

 

[juza76]

I don't go now in the mental aspect but his widereceivers beside Hopkins are below average actually, Edmonds is good as running back receiver and Arnold can stretch the field
But the only one I saw making a contested catch no called Hopkins was the tigh end Daniels
Not enough

 

[BritCard]

I will say this, we haven’t had many QBs that have graced us with such a passer rating map.

Yet he's still 21st in passer rating.

 

[82CardsGrad]

If you read the above and think that K1 is the problem on this team....well then lets examine this:

The criticisms I have seen laid at Murray:

Bad Attitude
Bad Leader
Can't read defenses/isn't smart enough
Is only a running QB
Poor fundamentals
Doesn't work hard enough


What possibly could be leading those sort of criticisms in the face of a season like above

If you're directing this toward me, let's be clear here Chris... I never said he has a bad attitude, bad leader and doesn't work hard enough. I merely pointed out the "potential" that this "might" be the case. Conjecture? You bet.
I did say that he struggles in terms of reading defenses, but again, NEVER once said/suggested or conjectured anything remotely close to his smarts, or lack thereof!
I did also say that he has poor fundamentals. I really don't see that as conjecture, but can see that some of you might...

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Not directed at you at all. Especially since as you stated above you haven't really gone down that route.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

I am not calling out anyone specifically here. Just saying that some of these criticisms just don't stand up compared to the season he is having, which is probably the 3rd or 4th best season in the franchises 100 years

 

[BritCard]

What possibly could be framing such assumptions of character / leadership / intelligence?

Forgot effort, work habits, and toughness. Those have started bubbling up as well.

Seriously. Of all the people YOU have to play the race card? Are you trying to bait us into a ban?

Maybe it's the fact that stats don't say everything. Your "How he compares to previous Cards QB's" list has a lot of really bad QB's on it for a start. It also has a lot of QB's that played in a very different era of football. It certainly doesn't have many (or any?) #1 draft picks on it.

So comparing where he stands against a bunch of were never good, or past their prime QB's that played in a time where 3000 yards was considered a good passing year is a BS comparison from the start.

The only fair comparison is against his peers. In this season, or in the same situation he is now.

And the simple fact is that he isn't where he should be for a player of his talent. Just to set fire to that race card I'd take 2nd year Deshaun Watson over 2nd year Kyler all day long. Obviously 2nd year Mahomes too. I'd take 2nd year Lamar also. Just to be fair to the white boys I've seen more thats impressed me from Justin Herbert than I saw from Kyler last year too.

Now saying all that, I think Kyler has incredible talent and could be elite. But he's not where he should be. I've seen less talented guys further along than Kyler at this point which is why the work ethic questions are raised.

There's no excuses next year. He will have had his third offseason. All the "He's still learning" excuses go away.

 

[juza76]

I am not calling out anyone specifically here. Just saying that some of these criticisms just don't stand up compared to the season he is having, which is probably the 3rd or 4th best season in the franchises 100 years

But being satisfied for this is the only reason why isn't established a winning culture

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Who said anything about race?

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

But being satisfied for this is the only reason why isn't established a winning culture

I would seriously consider the best seasons since Warner 2008 and Palmer 2015 as being well on the way to establishing a serious change in culture for a guy who has started 1 season in college and 2 in the pros.

You guys have to take this stuff in the proper context.

 

[MrYeahBut]

What possibly could be framing such assumptions of character / leadership / intelligence?

Forgot effort, work habits, and toughness. Those have started bubbling up as well.

Conjecture has framed those assumptions.

 

[ajcardfan]

Huh? Did I say he isn't willing to do the work? Calm down man...

You said he has to "want to" (as if he might not) he "has to accept he isn't good enough" (as if he is too egotistical) and "has to swallow a tough pill" (questioning willingness) and "work hard enough" (questioning work ethic).

Yes, that is going at his character, not his play.

And, I am plenty calm.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Also I see the new criticism of playing COD of twitch...

It's a fact that playing games helps you stay sharp and process information faster. Devin Booker is the same way and it in no way hinders his performance.