Jim Rhome Today

[john h]

This afternoon (Tuesday) Jim Rhome talked briefly about the Cards. He wondered what Denny Green was thinking when he brought in King to replace McCown when Mcown had won 3 of the last 4. Thought Denny may have lost his way. He also noted Denny can never bring himself to admit he has made a mistake. Denny's failure to admit to mistakes and take responsibility is apparently well known. He also discussed the QB situation in San Diego. He said there is no way they let there starter leave in FA. Said he did not know how they could do it but need to keep Rivers also. I think threre are going to more teams looking for QB's this year than any year I can remember so we are going to have a tough go finding a decent one in FA or just get lucky. I hope the Cards are looking now for a possible trade for a QB. WE are going to draft high enough to possible get someone worth while.

 

[Brevity]

What makes me sick is to review the list of QB's we've passed up in the draft over the last few years.

I would post the names but I start getting woosy.

 

[CardinalChris]

I wonder about the why, and it is because despite our wins, the offense wasn't performing. He made the move to improve the performance of that side of the ball, not to lose more games. Not sure how Rhome can say he can't admit mistakes when King replacing McCown is about as close as any HC would get to saying "oops, I was wrong" as was bench King this week. No coach will come out and say "Josh isn't as good as I thought". The benching does it though.

Now agree with it or not, the bigger problems is what do we do, because none of the 3 guys on the roster should be starting next year unless they improve DRAMATICALLY.

 

[CardinalChris]

What makes me sick is to review the list of QB's we've passed up in the draft over the last few years.

I would post the names but I start getting woosy.

Hindsight on the draft will do that.... it is best not to think about it!!!!

 

[Rats]

This afternoon (Tuesday) Jim Rhome talked briefly about the Cards. He wondered what Denny Green was thinking when he brought in King to replace McCown when Mcown had won 3 of the last 4. Thought Denny may have lost his way. He also noted Denny can never bring himself to admit he has made a mistake. Denny's failure to admit to mistakes and take responsibility is apparently well known. He also discussed the QB situation in San Diego. He said there is no way they let there starter leave in FA. Said he did not know how they could do it but need to keep Rivers also. I think threre are going to more teams looking for QB's this year than any year I can remember so we are going to have a tough go finding a decent one in FA or just get lucky. I hope the Cards are looking now for a possible trade for a QB. WE are going to draft high enough to possible get someone worth while.

I heard that early this morning, I think to much is made of DG not admitting mistakes and excepting blame. He may not do it publicly but I am sure he does it internally. He is in charge of making decesions right or wrong that is his job. Some of them work out, the ones that don't he has said he is displeased with them. He is arrogant and stubborn with the media because they only write good things when you are right not when you are wrong. Why give them more quote lines. I think you are right that with starting the rookie QB we will draft high enough to get a top talent. If Navarre pans out we have at least a backup for next year. JM may be brought back cheaply if we can't get a decent FA caretaker. We need to fix the OLINE in order for any QB to have a shot at success.

 

[CardinalChris]

I heard that early this morning, I think to much is made of DG not admitting mistakes and excepting blame. He may not do it publicly but I am sure he does it internally. He is in charge of making decesions right or wrong that is his job. Some of them work out, the ones that don't he has said he is displeased with them. He is arrogant and stubborn with the media because they only write good things when you are right not when you are wrong. Why give them more quote lines. I think you are right that with starting the rookie QB we will draft high enough to get a top talent. If Navarre pans out we have at least a backup for next year. JM may be brought back cheaply if we can't get a decent FA caretaker. We need to fix the OLINE in order for any QB to have a shot at success.

Exactly...benching a player is admitting a mistake without publically saying how bad a player is. He just ate every sound bite that said McCown would be a top 5 QB by benching him. NOT benching him is a stubborn mistake if you don't believe he is helping the team

 

[Second Deck]

I don't know how anyone could have been pleased with McCowns performence. I understand the move to King even though I did not think he played well in TB. He was a total mess in the two games he started for us. I totally believe in DG and am sure he wishes he was not going to a rookie QB. I think Navarre is smart and will either get rid of the ball or throw it away. I can't wait until Sunday and hope for another Card win with Navarre over 200 yards passing and tow TD's.

 

[Skkorpion]

Exactly...benching a player is admitting a mistake without publically saying how bad a player is. He just ate every sound bite that said McCown would be a top 5 QB by benching him. NOT benching him is a stubborn mistake if you don't believe he is helping the team

Exactly. Green has admitted many mistakes, including McCown and Shaun King, just by benching them. Every time I read or here Denny doesn't admit his mistakes I want to scream "Then you're not listening!!!"

What Green will not do is pander to the second-guessers who want to hear him grovel in apologies for trying things that didn't work.

 

[Mulli]

Exactly. Green has admitted many mistakes, including McCown and Shaun King, just by benching them. Every time I read or here Denny doesn't admit his mistakes I want to scream "Then you're not listening!!!"

What Green will not do is pander to the second-guessers who want to hear him grovel in apologies for trying things that didn't work.

Excellent post.

 

[Clif]

Exactly. Green has admitted many mistakes, including McCown and Shaun King, just by benching them. Every time I read or here Denny doesn't admit his mistakes I want to scream "Then you're not listening!!!"

What Green will not do is pander to the second-guessers who want to hear him grovel in apologies for trying things that didn't work.

 

[chickenhead]

Okay, I agree with the above post. However, I do understand the second-guessers as well. We've been spoon-fed a lot of effusive praise from Green about McCown as a starter, King as a starter, and now Navarre as a starter. We're also hearing a lot of "Green knows best" from other posters when the QBs are getting benched in decreasing intervals. Winning cures all ills, as they say, and if Navarre plays well you can bet both sides will be pleased, because we're all Cards fans after all. However, if the year ends in shambles at the QB position, it will involve 2 out of 3 guys that Green brought in. I think many posters are not second-guessing as much as tempering their unbridled enthusiasm.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Okay, I agree with the above post. However, I do understand the second-guessers as well. We've been spoon-fed a lot of effusive praise from Green about McCown as a starter, King as a starter, and now Navarre as a starter. We're also hearing a lot of "Green knows best" from other posters when the QBs are getting benched in decreasing intervals. Winning cures all ills, as they say, and if Navarre plays well you can bet both sides will be pleased, because we're all Cards fans after all. However, if the year ends in shambles at the QB position, it will involve 2 out of 3 guys that Green brought in. I think many posters are not second-guessing as much as tempering their unbridled enthusiasm.

Boosting the players ego perhaps?

 

[black]

It seems everyone thinks we have so much talent that any idiot can coach this team. Truth is, we have to get over the Mac regime (which goes further than him) to get the players we need. This is the first year of a new staff and players.(half) I can't wait to hear half of you cry over the cut of some fan favorities before next year.


The 0-line gets re-done. Simple. McCown is a good QB, and he can't help if he gets plowed. I read of people wanting different RB's in the draft, or the drafting of a QB. Truth is, the Cards must have a winner on the field in '06! Drafting and bringing in FA's in the first year producing a playoff team is unreal. But thats Green's fault for saying anything, what else is one to do when noone shows up for the games? Call them bandwagon fans if you wish, but they have money. And they will stay fans if you win. The stadium will draw fans because its new, but, you need a product. Right now, I wouldn't go.



The new stadium is key for the Cards future. Changing the uni's or name of the team is not going to do it. Its wins.


I think Green is doing a great job for what he has to work with. He has had only one draft and one year. The first draft has kicked butt.

 

[john h]

I heard that early this morning, I think to much is made of DG not admitting mistakes and excepting blame. He may not do it publicly but I am sure he does it internally. He is in charge of making decesions right or wrong that is his job. Some of them work out, the ones that don't he has said he is displeased with them. He is arrogant and stubborn with the media because they only write good things when you are right not when you are wrong. Why give them more quote lines. I think you are right that with starting the rookie QB we will draft high enough to get a top talent. If Navarre pans out we have at least a backup for next year. JM may be brought back cheaply if we can't get a decent FA caretaker. We need to fix the OLINE in order for any QB to have a shot at success.

I think admitting to your mistakes is a quality of a good leader. Internalizing may not get it done for those you are leading. I have seen coach after coach step up to the podium after a loss and say I did not have this team ready, etc. and then say I accept responsibility for this loss. Players in all sports tend to line up behind their leaders when they do this. Like Harry Truman always said "The Buck Stops Here". If you cannot accept responsibility for what goes wrong you sure cannot accept praise if things go right. I consider this a flaw in DG's leadership qualities.

 

[john h]

Okay, I agree with the above post. However, I do understand the second-guessers as well. We've been spoon-fed a lot of effusive praise from Green about McCown as a starter, King as a starter, and now Navarre as a starter. We're also hearing a lot of "Green knows best" from other posters when the QBs are getting benched in decreasing intervals. Winning cures all ills, as they say, and if Navarre plays well you can bet both sides will be pleased, because we're all Cards fans after all. However, if the year ends in shambles at the QB position, it will involve 2 out of 3 guys that Green brought in. I think many posters are not second-guessing as much as tempering their unbridled enthusiasm.

Second guessing is no crime and part of the allure of sports in general. Much of the discussions on this board are involved with second guessing. As a pilot I was involved in a lot of second guessing which we properly named Aircraft Accident Investigations. Learn from your mistakes and move on and get better.

 

[Rats]

I think admitting to your mistakes is a quality of a good leader. Internalizing may not get it done for those you are leading. I have seen coach after coach step up to the podium after a loss and say I did not have this team ready, etc. and then say I accept responsibility for this loss. Players in all sports tend to line up behind their leaders when they do this. Like Harry Truman always said "The Buck Stops Here". If you cannot accept responsibility for what goes wrong you sure cannot accept praise if things go right. I consider this a flaw in DG's leadership qualities.

John, I think you are miss reading what I, CardinalChris, and Skorp are saying. By internally admitting to mistakes we mean by keeping it within the team. DG sees no reason to step up to the podium and admit that he didn't have a team ready. These are men. He treats them like men. SO many of them want to be treated like boys. He holds them accountable and holds them responsible for mistakes, lack of execution. I have yet to see a coach miss a block or drop a pass or overthrow a wideout. He praises and critics within the clubhouse not thru the press. If guys don't buy into that he says they are good guys but we will help them achieve there goals elsewhere. The media will beat him up because he will not pander to them. That does not mean that he doesn't constantly evaluate performance of those he has delegated assignments to. That is his job. That is what a head coach should do. He has said that know one wants to win more than him and I believe that. I do not however believe that you are objective with DG or want to see his management style as something that this organization truly needed. The Cards will not win without a guy like Dennis Green turning the thing around IMO

 

[CardinalChris]

I think admitting to your mistakes is a quality of a good leader. Internalizing may not get it done for those you are leading. I have seen coach after coach step up to the podium after a loss and say I did not have this team ready, etc. and then say I accept responsibility for this loss. Players in all sports tend to line up behind their leaders when they do this. Like Harry Truman always said "The Buck Stops Here". If you cannot accept responsibility for what goes wrong you sure cannot accept praise if things go right. I consider this a flaw in DG's leadership qualities.

I think In AZ where coaches have been placing the burden on themselves it was time for somebody to come out and make players realize it isn't ok to lose, and they hold responsibility as well. It's been a while since I've seen swagger like this year.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Exactly. Green has admitted many mistakes, including McCown and Shaun King, just by benching them. Every time I read or here Denny doesn't admit his mistakes I want to scream "Then you're not listening!!!"

What Green will not do is pander to the second-guessers who want to hear him grovel in apologies for trying things that didn't work.

The media like to stir up controversy (sp) If DG came out and said it they would have nothing to write about and second guess. He has admitted that the Josh and Shaun thing didn't work out, thats enough for me.

 

[PACardsFan]

I think admitting to your mistakes is a quality of a good leader. Internalizing may not get it done for those you are leading. I have seen coach after coach step up to the podium after a loss and say I did not have this team ready, etc. and then say I accept responsibility for this loss. Players in all sports tend to line up behind their leaders when they do this. Like Harry Truman always said "The Buck Stops Here". If you cannot accept responsibility for what goes wrong you sure cannot accept praise if things go right. I consider this a flaw in DG's leadership qualities.

I think your dead wrong about great leaders admitting their mistakes. It's just the opposite. We live in a nandy-pandy society where apologizing & crying by men is seen as a strength. I'm sorry, but none of the above is a sign of vision & leadership. Whether it was Churchill, Roosevelt, Lombardi, Reagan, Patton, or GW Bush. These great leaders didn't waste a moment admitting mistakes or lamenting what they had done. They were too busy completing the task at hand & MOVING FORWARD. I'm sure that Green realizes what has worked & what hasn't. But, he should NOT go to the podium & pour out his soul. He'll continue to make decisions that will move him in the direction of success. And most importantly, he won't look back.

 

[john h]

John, I think you are miss reading what I, CardinalChris, and Skorp are saying. By internally admitting to mistakes we mean by keeping it within the team. DG sees no reason to step up to the podium and admit that he didn't have a team ready. These are men. He treats them like men. SO many of them want to be treated like boys. He holds them accountable and holds them responsible for mistakes, lack of execution. I have yet to see a coach miss a block or drop a pass or overthrow a wideout. He praises and critics within the clubhouse not thru the press. If guys don't buy into that he says they are good guys but we will help them achieve there goals elsewhere. The media will beat him up because he will not pander to them. That does not mean that he doesn't constantly evaluate performance of those he has delegated assignments to. That is his job. That is what a head coach should do. He has said that know one wants to win more than him and I believe that. I do not however believe that you are objective with DG or want to see his management style as something that this organization truly needed. The Cards will not win without a guy like Dennis Green turning the thing around IMO

Do not disagree with most of your comments. DG came to the Cardinals with great credentials and gave us all high expectations. From my lifes experience working with all styles of leaderships I have found that people can be very effective using different styles depending on their own personality and that of the people they are leading. Regardless of a persons previous success I have found they sometimes fail in a new position for various reasons. Often not being able to adapt to a new situation. Today we have a few Head Coaches who I think we would all consider as outstanding in their carreers with other teams but are falling or completely failed like Steve Spurrier. Joe Gibbs and Steve Parcells are having as much difficulty as Dennis Green. Dennis is in his first year and I do not think any coach would have won any more games with this team. I am, however, concerned about some of his bizzare decisions this season. Without going into them they are all documented on this board. This off season will give us the acid test of just what sort of coach Dennis is going to be in how he revamps a team with so many needs. We do not have the personnel to go to the playoffs now or next year. I do not know that Dennis has ever had to deal with failure on the magnitude he is facing now. Let us see how he handles it and if he can keep our good players on board and make some wise selections for coaches and players in the co,ming season. I continue to believe that effective leaders no matter what methods they employ, must OPENLY accept responsibility for their teams failures. It just goes with the territory of being an effective leader. Atilla the Hun and Alexander The Great were bad ass effective leaders and they were always out front when they charged their enemys. There troops were willing to die for these guys. Ike was a mild mannered leader and rarely yelled at people but was a driving force in us winning WWII. General Patton was about as bad as they come but was up front where the action was. Tom Landry was a quiet but effective leader. I think all these guys would accept responsibilty for their teams failures or success. As to the media they typically are just looking to create controversey and unfortunately it best to deal with them as they have the power to turn fans on and off. So far this year I give DG a C- on his leadership qualities. I was a less than C student in high school but managed to turn it around in college to an A student so I hope Dennis returns to his former self. We desperately need it. Dennis needs to prove himself in Airizona because what he did in the past is a non starter in Airizona.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think your dead wrong about great leaders admitting their mistakes. It's just the opposite. We live in a nandy-pandy society where apologizing & crying by men is seen as a strength. I'm sorry, but none of the above is a sign of vision & leadership. Whether it was Churchill, Roosevelt, Lombardi, Reagan, Patton, or GW Bush. These great leaders didn't waste a moment admitting mistakes or lamenting what they had done. They were too busy completing the task at hand & MOVING FORWARD. I'm sure that Green realizes what has worked & what hasn't. But, he should NOT go to the podium & pour out his soul. He'll continue to make decisions that will move him in the direction of success. And most importantly, he won't look back.

What Green is doing at QB reminds me of what women accuse us men of doing when we're driving and not sure we're something is. Women will stop and look at a map, ask for directions. Men will say look I know where I'm heading I'm just taking a shortcut, avoiding traffic, anything to avoid admitting they missed the turnoff and have no idea where they are.

By simply saying he's giving us the best chance to win, Green has half the board convinced this is an actual plan that has been in the works for awhile now. Green saw in camp Navarre was the guy, put him on the scout team so he could work with him and now we're going to reap the benefits.

Completely ignoring if that's true what it means. It means that Green put a QB he didn't think was the guy as the starter, another one he didn't think was the guy as the backup and replacement starter. Hired a Qb coach to work with 2 guys he didn't think were the answer, and consistently tweaked his offense including bringing in an assistant to help him tweak the offense so that 2 guys he didn't think were the guy, could run the offense. Does that man an ounce of sense to anybody?

If he just said hey it wasn't working, I want to see someone else, I'd never complain.

 

[Cardinal Bob]

Jim Rome is a toad. I have no use for anything that comes out his pie hole...though I agree with what he said here.

 

[pete]

Why is the media so obsessed with trying to get Green to admit he made a mistake? He's admitting it with his actions.

You have to try things. Some will work out. Some won't. Green doesn't need to answer to the media, the fans, or anyone else except the team, Rod Graves and the Bidwills when things don't work out. What I like about Green is he is decisive in determining something is not working and he makes no hesitation in making changes to fix what he believes is wrong. That is the mark of a good leader.

 

[john h]

What Green is doing at QB reminds me of what women accuse us men of doing when we're driving and not sure we're something is. Women will stop and look at a map, ask for directions. Men will say look I know where I'm heading I'm just taking a shortcut, avoiding traffic, anything to avoid admitting they missed the turnoff and have no idea where they are.

By simply saying he's giving us the best chance to win, Green has half the board convinced this is an actual plan that has been in the works for awhile now. Green saw in camp Navarre was the guy, put him on the scout team so he could work with him and now we're going to reap the benefits.

Completely ignoring if that's true what it means. It means that Green put a QB he didn't think was the guy as the starter, another one he didn't think was the guy as the backup and replacement starter. Hired a Qb coach to work with 2 guys he didn't think were the answer, and consistently tweaked his offense including bringing in an assistant to help him tweak the offense so that 2 guys he didn't think were the guy, could run the offense. Does that man an ounce of sense to anybody?

If he just said hey it wasn't working, I want to see someone else, I'd never complain.

Russ: I really question whether Dennis has some sort of grand plan at all. I would think not. I think he is shooting from the hip on a week to week basis. This is one of the reasons he is unable or will not give out much information. My thoughts are DG really thought that Josh could be an NFL starter. As the season has progressed he has come to the conclusion Josh is not going to be a starter in the NFL. He really opened himself up to criticism when he started King as Josh had won 3 out of 4 and perhaps he should have started Josh regardless of what he was seeing from him and his unlikely hood of being a long term starter. I further suspect he was starting to see a lot of frustration from his high priced receivers which put more pressure on him to start King. Clearly King failed. I think he is making a good move in starting Navarre as we need to establish if he is a keeper before years end. He knows we are in QB hell and RB hell. I just do not think DG is being forthcoming with what is going on. His answers to questions are repetitive and non responsive. I understand he cannot just say Josh sucks or King sucks but he could say we need to see what Navarre can do prior to the years end due to our lack of production on offense. This would hurt no ones feelings and would be the truth. Just to say Navarre gives us the best chance of winning or looked good on the scout team is a poor answer.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ: I really question whether Dennis has some sort of grand plan at all. I would think not. I think he is shooting from the hip on a week to week basis. This is one of the reasons he is unable or will not give out much information. My thoughts are DG really thought that Josh could be an NFL starter. .

I think Green's thought process went like this.

1) I want to draft Larry Fitzgerald.
2) I need a Qb there are none in FA.
3) I don't like Jeff Blake
4) Josh has the athletic skill, my system can make anybody look good.
5) Josh McCown is our QB, he's like Brett Favre
6) I am drafting Larry Fiztgerald

If the NFL hadn't let Fitz into the draft I have no doubt in my mind we'd have taken Roethlisberger. Green wanted Fitz and everything was focussed on that. Remember his top 5 players in the draft list? Fitz, Roy Williams, Sean Taylor, Kellen Winslow, Tommie Harris. No Manning, no Ben, no Rivers, remember Green does BPA he doesn't care about need and his top 5 BPA's had no QB's. He didn't want there to be any question that Josh was the guy,oops I mean King.... err Navarre.