Jim Rhome Today

[Tangodnzr]

Originally Posted by john h
Russ: I really question whether Dennis has some sort of grand plan at all. I would think not. I think he is shooting from the hip on a week to week basis. This is one of the reasons he is unable or will not give out much information. My thoughts are DG really thought that Josh could be an NFL starter. .

I think Green's thought process went like this.

1) I want to draft Larry Fitzgerald.
2) I need a Qb there are none in FA.
3) I don't like Jeff Blake
4) Josh has the athletic skill, my system can make anybody look good.
5) Josh McCown is our QB, he's like Brett Favre
6) I am drafting Larry Fiztgerald

If the NFL hadn't let Fitz into the draft I have no doubt in my mind we'd have taken Roethlisberger. Green wanted Fitz and everything was focussed on that. Remember his top 5 players in the draft list? Fitz, Roy Williams, Sean Taylor, Kellen Winslow, Tommie Harris. No Manning, no Ben, no Rivers, remember Green does BPA he doesn't care about need and his top 5 BPA's had no QB's. He didn't want there to be any question that Josh was the guy,oops I mean King.... err Navarre.

I think you two gentlemen bring up some good points!

First of all I tend to agree with John's comment quoted above.

I have posted before that as time has gone by, I more and more tend to believe Green didn't really do all his homework regarding this team before he came here. (Sect 11, also had raised the question a few months back).
I once said, back in the heat of the Fassel/Green debates, that one of the advantages I felt Green had at the time of interviewing for the Cards job, was that he had the luxury of 2 years to prepare himself. Fassel was beat to a pulp by the end of last year, the guy was obviously physically and mentally spent.
But now I tend to think maybe Green really never thought all that much about the Cards job before the opportunity suddenly got dropped in his lap.
I still have to think he was gunning for the 49ers job, everything in his history points to that.
But it didn't work out, which they are still talking about in S.F. Al Davis interviewed him, but that's a marriage made in hell. Danny boy Snyder got everyone hyper with his meddlings, and suddenly the Cards appeared on the radar screen.

Here's a link to not only where I said it earlier, during pre-season plus also, some interesting other comments by people at that point. http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=450349&postcount=62

It has appeared more and more to me like Green was really caught unprepared for this particular job. He didn't seem to know much at all about what was actually going on here with the players, whom was/wasn't doing squat, etc.
Some reasons why I say this:

• Given Russ's contention that he was going to draft Fitz, no matter what. Did he really even know what he did/didn't have in Quan? What kind of talent was on the roster at WR?
• After drafting Fitz, and still basically sight unseen, he moves Quan out of the slot position giving it to Fitz.
• One of the first cuts was Steve Bush.
• He didn't seem to have his supporting staff totally gathered yet. Emmitt Thomas, who seemed like a preferred choice, turned him down. Same with Collette.
• He drafted 2 linebackers
• He seemed bound and determined to gut the team more to make a power statement than based on an in-depth 1st hand look and evaluation at what was/wasn't here.

I think he blew in here thinking something like:
"Man I should have it make here with these desert yokels. They are so desperate for a winning team I will be God."
But then his lack of preparation and hurried zeal to show how omnipotent he was, he started making some "mistakes". And just like the liar who tells the first lie, then gets caught in their own trap of then having to perpetuate further lies in an attempt to hide the previous one(s), all because they won't actually admit to the first lie. And so it been going ever since.

Kendall wasn't buying into his act.....ZAP!! Gone !
LJ Shelton shows up overweight after surgery....must be one of the lazy "cancers".....ZAP! To the pineboard
Dexter Jackson....claiming some back problems....hmmmm...may not be buying it either....don't take any chances. ZAP! Gone! (took a little more work, and creativity however)
Bob Wylie isn't a yes man after all, thinks too much for himself, asks too many questioins. ZAP! Gone, banished to scouting the Egyptian semi pro league.
(Replaced by the highly experienced and universally renowned Everett Lindsay.
Offense not working like it should, natives starting to get restless. ZAP! Bring in Carl Hargraves to "fix" things. (He's also known to be great at kissing and telling)
Josh is the man...no King is....no Navarre is.
"Darnell Docket is the greatest nose tackle to come along in years"...."umm well no, actually I planned all along to draft him as a DE" "Well, I got no choice, gotta use him at nose tackle".
and on....and on....and on.

And some wonder why some of the rest of us tend to be a little skeptical.

 

[Syracusecards]

As far as accountability goes, I'd say 90% falls to the players. Yes, a lot of people second guess the decision to go to Fitz instead of a QB. However, what do you think our record would be right now without Fitz? Boldin was out for almost 2 months. Without Fitz, our starting wr's would have been pathetic. I don't think Big Ben would fare as well if he didn't have the strong running game, o-line, and Hines Ward and Burress to make plays for him. Fitz was the right call. Big Ben would be horrendous playing for our team with Boldin out, no Fitz, and just BJ to throw to.
Also, Mac used to always blame himself for the teams shortcomings. That gave the players a comfort level they didn't deserve. I like that Green has an ego. The players need to have a confident leader that will, as he says, do whatever it takes to win. If your leader starts saying he was made bad mistakes, then that shatters the mindset of the players that believe in him. Regardless of all of his decisions, you can see he has a clear direction on where the team needs to go that has been lacking for years.

 

[Russ Smith]

As far as accountability goes, I'd say 90% falls to the players. Yes, a lot of people second guess the decision to go to Fitz instead of a QB. However, what do you think our record would be right now without Fitz? Boldin was out for almost 2 months. Without Fitz, our starting wr's would have been pathetic. I don't think Big Ben would fare as well if he didn't have the strong running game, o-line, and Hines Ward and Burress to make plays for him. Fitz was the right call. Big Ben would be horrendous playing for our team with Boldin out, no Fitz, and just BJ to throw to.
Also, Mac used to always blame himself for the teams shortcomings. That gave the players a comfort level they didn't deserve. I like that Green has an ego. The players need to have a confident leader that will, as he says, do whatever it takes to win. If your leader starts saying he was made bad mistakes, then that shatters the mindset of the players that believe in him. Regardless of all of his decisions, you can see he has a clear direction on where the team needs to go that has been lacking for years.

We averaged 190 YPG passing in the games Boldin missed this year, if we didn't have Fitz sure I'm betting the numbers would have been down a bit. Since Quan is back we're actually averaing LESS passing yards, and that includes the 350 game against Carolina, because of the debacles in Buffalo and New York passing wise.

We have no idea how good or bad Ben would have been here, if said he'd clearly be the ROY here people would scoff, it's just as presumptuous to say he'd be "horrendous" here. Afterall he'd throw for more yardage here because he'd get to throw more, he hasn't thrown more than 25 passes in a game all season because they get ahead, and then run the ball. Better for the w/l record but stat wise it's holding his number down. That's why he has just 1 200 yard passing game. Josh threw over 30 times 3 games, and over 25 6 times, and only had 2 200 yard games.

So yes, no Fitz would have hurt our passing game, had we not locked in on him we may have signed a WR in FA or drafted one later. We could have made the deal with Jax, still got Ben, and taken someone like Colbert with the extra 2nd rounder but we have no way of knowing that for sure.

As for what our record would be, I'd guess 4-7 or 5-6. We all saw first hand WR's can't make an impact with bad QB play, if like me you believe Ben would have given us better QB play, I suspect that could have offset not having Fitz. I think none of us would be talking about which QB we should draft or sign next year. And we could always have taken a WR #1 2005 and taken the QB when he was there.

We got a very good player, we passed on a very good QB. Better than last year when we passed on a very good QB and got a situational pass rusher and the invisible man.

 

[Syracusecards]

We averaged 190 YPG passing in the games Boldin missed this year, if we didn't have Fitz sure I'm betting the numbers would have been down a bit. Since Quan is back we're actually averaing LESS passing yards, and that includes the 350 game against Carolina, because of the debacles in Buffalo and New York passing wise.

We have no idea how good or bad Ben would have been here, if said he'd clearly be the ROY here people would scoff, it's just as presumptuous to say he'd be "horrendous" here. Afterall he'd throw for more yardage here because he'd get to throw more, he hasn't thrown more than 25 passes in a game all season because they get ahead, and then run the ball. Better for the w/l record but stat wise it's holding his number down. That's why he has just 1 200 yard passing game. Josh threw over 30 times 3 games, and over 25 6 times, and only had 2 200 yard games.

So yes, no Fitz would have hurt our passing game, had we not locked in on him we may have signed a WR in FA or drafted one later. We could have made the deal with Jax, still got Ben, and taken someone like Colbert with the extra 2nd rounder but we have no way of knowing that for sure.

As for what our record would be, I'd guess 4-7 or 5-6. We all saw first hand WR's can't make an impact with bad QB play, if like me you believe Ben would have given us better QB play, I suspect that could have offset not having Fitz. I think none of us would be talking about which QB we should draft or sign next year. And we could always have taken a WR #1 2005 and taken the QB when he was there.

We got a very good player, we passed on a very good QB. Better than last year when we passed on a very good QB and got a situational pass rusher and the invisible man.

Damn! You did your homework! All very good points. As far as the Bills game though, I think even the Colts wouldn't have been able to pass well in that weather.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And some wonder why some of the rest of us tend to be a little skeptical.

I don't think anyone wonders why you tend to be skeptical - some of us think you're a racist based on racist comments made in the past and you went on a page long diatribe against people with weight problems. Our coach is African American and fat people - not too much to figure out Tango. Most people with prejudices against certain groups don't like to see those groups be successful - plain and simple.

From,

The psychotic, alcoholic/drug-abuser

 

[kerouac9]

• One of the first cuts was Steve Bush.
• He drafted 2 linebackers

LJ Shelton shows up overweight after surgery....must be one of the lazy "cancers".....ZAP! To the pineboard
Bob Wylie isn't a yes man after all, thinks too much for himself, asks too many questioins. ZAP! Gone, banished to scouting the Egyptian semi pro league.
(Replaced by the highly experienced and universally renowned Everett Lindsay.
"Darnell Docket is the greatest nose tackle to come along in years"...."umm well no, actually I planned all along to draft him as a DE" "Well, I got no choice, gotta use him at nose tackle".
and on....and on....and on.

And some wonder why some of the rest of us tend to be a little skeptical.

Ummm... Steve Bush? Huh? He was brought in because he was Jake's boy from ASU. He never really did anything. Are you really sore over this? WTF?

Two linebackers, huh? I know that one was Karlos Dansby, but who was the other one? Lets look at the draft picks: Fitz, Dansby, Dockett, Step, Smith, Leckey, Navarre.

If you've been watching the games, it doesn't seem like L.J. Shelton's blowing people up now that he's back. There really doesn't seem to be that big a differece between L.J. on the left side last season and Big on that side this season. L.J.'s been benched a couple times mid-game this year, as well. No one's going to confuse him with Walter Jones any time soon. Don't confuse being a fan favorite with actually being good.

It's not like the O-line was cooking under Wylie's tutledge, either. It may be marginally worse now that he's gone, but it's hard to tell. The real question is whether he was effective at his post (of which the evidence is sketchy), the "yes man" arguement would only hold water if he was let go despite the O-line playing well.

When was Darnell Dockett playing nose tackle? He was breifly assigned to DE in camp when the position was thin, but since he was drafted, he was always a UT.

Perhaps you're skeptical because you're not working from accurate information. False assumptions often bring about false conclusions.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

What makes me sick is to review the list of QB's we've passed up in the draft over the last few years.

I would post the names but I start getting woosy.

It made me sick to watch the Minnesota Jax game Sunday. Why do the cards not have Leftwich. Why are the cards in this situation. Do Johnson and Pace even have 1/10 the impact that Leftwich would have provided. The trade down was ******** and one of the worst moves in Franchise history, what a diffrence it would have made to have a normal QB this year. I know it happened but we have passed on 2 great QB's the past drafts and the Cards don't have an F'n QB and are starting there 7th rounder this Sunday, when they had a shot at making the playoffs WTF!!!

 

[Syracusecards]

It made me sick to watch the Minnesota Jax game Sunday. Why do the cards not have Leftwich. Why are the cards in this situation. Do Johnson and Pace even have 1/10 the impact that Leftwich would have provided. The trade down was ******** and one of the worst moves in Franchise history, what a diffrence it would have made to have a normal QB this year. I know it happened but we have passed on 2 great QB's the past drafts and the Cards don't have an F'n QB and are starting there 7th rounder this Sunday, when they had a shot at making the playoffs WTF!!!

Be honest, were you really rooting for us to draft Leftwich? If so, kudos to you. I really wanted Suggs.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Be honest, were you really rooting for us to draft Leftwich? If so, kudos to you. I really wanted Suggs.

there were a lot of us who wanted Lefty and would have been okay with Suggs. Instead we got BJ - who looks to be absolutely useless and what ever happened to Pace and how good he looked early in the season? Everytime I looked at the sideline on Sunday, he seemed to be firmly planted on it.

 

[Russ Smith]

there were a lot of us who wanted Lefty and would have been okay with Suggs. Instead we got BJ - who looks to be absolutely useless and what ever happened to Pace and how good he looked early in the season? Everytime I looked at the sideline on Sunday, he seemed to be firmly planted on it.

Pace played more sunday than the last game i saw. One of the sacks he went flying over the QB who wound up getting sacked by someone else. I think having Calvin go by him like that scared him stiff.

I think teams have figured out Pace is a different player this year and that's why his sacks aren't coming as often now.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I don't think anyone wonders why you tend to be skeptical - some of us think you're a racist based on racist comments made in the past and you went on a page long diatribe against people with weight problems. Our coach is African American and fat people - not too much to figure out Tango. Most people with prejudices against certain groups don't like to see those groups be successful - plain and simple.

From,

The psychotic, alcoholic/drug-abuser

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesebeef
I don't think anyone wonders why you tend to be skeptical - you're a racist and you don't like fat people - not too much to figure out Tango.

From,

The psychotic, alcoholic/drug-abuser

I call a big time foul here Mods.
This violates just about every posted guideline here. Some of these have been getting enforced a little more lately, and I ask for something to be done about this.

Not only is the personal insult ridiculous as to calling me a racist but MaoToseFanClub even goes beyond that to selectively edit and alter Chessy's comments, in a rather pathetic attempt to evidently try and circumvent the personal insult guidelines as they would apply to him.

At least I'll give Cheesy the benefit of the doubt in that he at least gave a reason for his opinion, however misguided it may be.

Mao's follow-up post...no way.

Something needs to be done about this, this is totally, totally unacceptable, or I certainly hope it is.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Ummm... Steve Bush? Huh? He was brought in because he was Jake's boy from ASU. He never really did anything. Are you really sore over this? WTF?
I beg to differ there. Last year he showed that he was probably the best combo receiver/blocker TE on the roster, plus he also was used out of the backfield too. Do you not remember that final game last year? Everyone talks about the great Poole catch to win the game, but it was a great, great play by Bush just prior to that, that even made it possible.

Two linebackers, huh? I know that one was Karlos Dansby, but who was the other one? Lets look at the draft picks: Fitz, Dansby, Dockett, Step, Smith, Leckey, Navarre.
OK, my bad, for some reason I keep thinking Antonio Smith was a linebacker. Still his selection was a real head scratcher to me.

If you've been watching the games, it doesn't seem like L.J. Shelton's blowing people up now that he's back. There really doesn't seem to be that big a differece between L.J. on the left side last season and Big on that side this season. L.J.'s been benched a couple times mid-game this year, as well. No one's going to confuse him with Walter Jones any time soon. Don't confuse being a fan favorite with actually being good.
So you say Shelton is nothing more than a mere fan favorite? Even given that, how would you then explain he got that way? I saw him make one of the best blocks in pass protection I've seen this year in the Jets game. He did a little dlip and absolutely devasted his man knocking him a couple of feet back and landing flat on his back.(It was early in the game don't remember exactly when). His play has generally been nothing to complain about.

It's not like the O-line was cooking under Wylie's tutledge, either. It may be marginally worse now that he's gone, but it's hard to tell. The real question is whether he was effective at his post (of which the evidence is sketchy), the "yes man" arguement would only hold water if he was let go despite the O-line playing well.
Huh? Translate please.

When was Darnell Dockett playing nose tackle? He was breifly assigned to DE in camp when the position was thin, but since he was drafted, he was always a UT.
Again, my bad, I said NOSE tackle, we don't have one with a 4 man line. What I meant, and I would think you know that is DT. And my comments were simply reminding everyone of those that Green made as each move with Dockett was made.
When drafted Green labled him a great prototype DT. Then after King got hurt, and Green moved Dockett out to DE, he then told everyone thats really what he was planning all along. Then the DT corps got so thin he moved him back inside. I can find the quotes if you don't believe me, but to be honest, I really don't think its worth the effort.


Perhaps you're skeptical because you're not working from accurate information. False assumptions often bring about false conclusions.
Where did you get this one, in your fortune cookie at lunch today?

.

 

[Redheart]

...What Green will not do is pander to the second-guessers who want to hear him grovel in apologies for trying things that didn't work.

Wow. That takes care of almost all of the media and a big chunk of ASFN posters.

Sorry guys, no Green-pandering.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I call a big time foul here Mods.
This violates just about every posted guideline here. Some of these have been getting enforced a little more lately, and I ask for something to be done about this.

Not only is the personal insult ridiculous as to calling me a racist but MaoToseFanClub even goes beyond that to selectively edit and alter Chessy's comments, in a rather pathetic attempt to evidently try and circumvent the personal insult guidelines as they would apply to him.

At least I'll give Cheesy the benefit of the doubt in that he at least gave a reason for his opinion, however misguided it may be.

Mao's follow-up post...no way.

Something needs to be done about this, this is totally, totally unacceptable, or I certainly hope it is.

Simmer down, Tango. I quoted the post as it was written. Cheesy must have went back and edited it. Either way, if you were offended by me putting up a laughing smiley (which is all I did) then I'll delete my own post.

 

[AzCards21]

I call a big time foul here Mods.
This violates just about every posted guideline here. Some of these have been getting enforced a little more lately, and I ask for something to be done about this.

Not only is the personal insult ridiculous as to calling me a racist but MaoToseFanClub even goes beyond that to selectively edit and alter Chessy's comments, in a rather pathetic attempt to evidently try and circumvent the personal insult guidelines as they would apply to him.

At least I'll give Cheesy the benefit of the doubt in that he at least gave a reason for his opinion, however misguided it may be.

Mao's follow-up post...no way.

Something needs to be done about this, this is totally, totally unacceptable, or I certainly hope it is.

Here! Here!

I'm with ya Tango! I just hope your plea for justice doesn't fall on the ears of a bunch of, how did you put it?

Childish people who have accomplished nothing in their lives?

I think that's close enough to get the point across. Shut up and reap what you sew.

Oh yeah, . Just kidding bud!

 

[Sandan]

I don't think anyone wonders why you tend to be skeptical - some of us think you're a racist based on racist comments made in the past and you went on a page long diatribe against people with weight problems. Our coach is African American and fat people - not too much to figure out Tango. Most people with prejudices against certain groups don't like to see those groups be successful - plain and simple.

From,

The psychotic, alcoholic/drug-abuser

Lighten up Cheesie, the Cards board is not a place to air personal dislikes.