Jalen Smith

[Proximo]

Lack of shooting, outside of Shamet and Payne. I guess it doesn't matter since Payne is most times a blackhole.

Crowder can shoot. Maybe Jalen can too given some work.

I don't really think that is that big of an issue.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's a choice about the nature of the overall team. He seems to be playing well, but this team is built to make big men look efficient. Our window is now. There is a good likelihood that we can get a vet to make the same contribution for much less money.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think it's the whole reason, but you also have to think about the money. It's not "just" 5m per. We are going to be in the tax next summer so that 5m deal would actually be 10m. And do you honestly think anyone in the Suns organization and anyone here would want to essentially give up 10m for Jalen Smith? Especially at the time his option came due?

If you want to form a sustainable contender then... yeah, I think it is an absolute no brainer. You need to be willing to pay developing players on their relatively small contracts, even if you're not seeing an immediate return.

And unloading a contract that small is not difficult anyway. It was short sighted and penny pinching.

 

[Chaplin]

If you want to form a sustainable contender then... yeah, I think it is an absolute no brainer. You need to be willing to pay developing players on their relatively small contracts, even if you're not seeing an immediate return.

And unloading a contract that small is not difficult anyway. It was short sighted and penny pinching.

How can you say that? This past summer, what did you see in Jalen Smith that would make him part of a "sustainable contender". I call bull on that one. I can see why you like him now, but you weren't Nostradamus 3 months ago.

 

[Phrazbit]

How can you say that? This past summer, what did you see in Jalen Smith that would make him part of a "sustainable contender". I call bull on that one. I can see why you like him now, but you weren't Nostradamus 3 months ago.

I trashed the move the instant it was posted on this board.

And I am not saying I saw Jalen Smith as a sure part of a sustainable contender, but developing young talent is the way to make a sustainable contender. Sarver cut the legs out from under the Nash Suns by playing cheap with young players and picks. I sincerely hope that this is our final lesson in this foolishness.

 

[Chaplin]

I trashed the move the instant it was posted on this board.

And I am not saying I saw Jalen Smith as a sure part of a sustainable contender, but developing young talent is the way to make a sustainable contender. Sarver cut the legs out from under the Nash Suns by playing cheap with young players and picks. I sincerely hope that this is our final lesson in this foolishness.

But you have to pick and choose. Developing talent can be pricey. If we are going all in on a guy who showed nothing at the time, and we failed, well, that's a lot of money down the drain. And for only a year anyway. If they thought the odds are that he wouldn't pan out, why bother paying him another 10 million to basically not play next year?

If you want to develop players, you have to be all-in on the player. They obviously were not. That is looking more and more like a mistake, but at the time, it's hard to fault their decision based on what they saw. And they certainly saw A LOT more of Smith than you or I.

But what do I know? I'm accused of being a Sarver supporter, so...

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I don't think it's the whole reason, but you also have to think about the money. It's not "just" 5m per. We are going to be in the tax next summer so that 5m deal would actually be 10m. And do you honestly think anyone in the Suns organization and anyone here would want to essentially give up 10m for Jalen Smith? Especially at the time his option came due?

There have been what, a handful of players who had their 3rd year option declined? It basically says you suck and will always suck. Even if you believe the guy is a lottery ticket, you pick up the 3rd year. He must have improved dramatically in the last couple months, because he's looked far too competent of late to be dumped for nothing. Most hopeful read is that money is going to Cam.

 

[Chaplin]

There have been what, a handful of players who had their 3rd year option declined? It basically says you suck and will always suck. Even if you believe the guy is a lottery ticket, you pick up the 3rd year. He must have improved dramatically in the last couple months, because he's looked far too competent of late to be dumped for nothing. Most hopeful read is that money is going to Cam.

People keep bringing up the "it's never happened before!" excuse. That's pretty old and has no relevance on anything. James Jones and Monty Williams had no confidence in Jalen Smith. IF he continued to be terrible going into next year, what would you have thought then? You'd be all over the front office for doing it.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

People keep bringing up the "it's never happened before!" excuse. That's pretty old and has no relevance on anything. James Jones and Monty Williams had no confidence in Jalen Smith. IF he continued to be terrible going into next year, what would you have thought then? You'd be all over the front office for doing it.

Uh what?

 

[Phrazbit]

But you have to pick and choose. Developing talent can be pricey. If we are going all in on a guy who showed nothing at the time, and we failed, well, that's a lot of money down the drain. And for only a year anyway. If they thought the odds are that he wouldn't pan out, why bother paying him another 10 million to basically not play next year?

If you want to develop players, you have to be all-in on the player. They obviously were not. That is looking more and more like a mistake, but at the time, it's hard to fault their decision based on what they saw. And they certainly saw A LOT more of Smith than you or I.

But what do I know? I'm accused of being a Sarver supporter, so...

I don't think under 5 mil is going "all in", even if he washed out those contracts are not hard to dump off.

And I also don't think the Suns or their ownership are hurting for money, again, this has zero effect on the Suns flexibility, only the bill ownership foots for the results.

If this was the first time we'd gotten cheap with a young player or dumped a pick for nothing it would be one thing, but this is one more in a long run since Sarver took over. Given our track record I don't see a reason to view this as anything but penny pinching. Sarver has long ago proven that he is impatient, meddling and cheap.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't think under 5 mil is going "all in", even if he washed out those contracts are not hard to dump off.

And I also don't think the Suns or their ownership are hurting for money, again, this has zero effect on the Suns flexibility, only the bill ownership foots for the results.

If this was the first time we'd gotten cheap with a young player or dumped a pick for nothing it would be one thing, but this is one more in a long run since Sarver took over. Given our track record I don't see a reason to view this as anything but penny pinching. Sarver has long ago proven that he is impatient, meddling and cheap.

Yeah and here we are, a championship contender. Same old Suns, eh?

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah and here we are, a championship contender. Same old Suns, eh?

It only took a decade. Does Sarver want to keep them a contender?

That is a straw man argument anyway.

 

[Chaplin]

It only took a decade. Does Sarver want to keep them a contender?

That is a straw man argument anyway.

So not picking up Smith's option shows that Sarver doesn't want to keep the Suns as a contender? You're joking, right?

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think under 5 mil is going "all in", even if he washed out those contracts are not hard to dump off.

And I also don't think the Suns or their ownership are hurting for money, again, this has zero effect on the Suns flexibility, only the bill ownership foots for the results.

If this was the first time we'd gotten cheap with a young player or dumped a pick for nothing it would be one thing, but this is one more in a long run since Sarver took over. Given our track record I don't see a reason to view this as anything but penny pinching. Sarver has long ago proven that he is impatient, meddling and cheap.

The Suns would have only been out $4.7 million guaranteed if they had picked up Smith's option next season. It was a short sighted approach by the Suns considering it takes big men longer to develop. Also Smith's contract would have more trade value right now with the option.

 

[Phrazbit]

So not picking up Smith's option shows that Sarver doesn't want to keep the Suns as a contender? You're joking, right?

Give me a break... really? Fine, I will ask a more direct question.

Does Sarver understand the realities of building sustained success? Past says no, moves like not picking up Smith makes me think the past taught him nothing.

One more time... the ONLY thing not picking up his option changes is the bill ownership is footing... period.

 

[Chaplin]

Give me a break... really? Fine, I will ask a more direct question.

Does Sarver understand the realities of building sustained success, past says no, moves like not picking up Smith makes me think the past taught him nothing.

One more time... the ONLY thing not picking up his option changes is the bill ownership is footing... period.

Extending Cam Payne, and certainly extending Cam Johnson. That counts as sustaining success, doesn't it? You make it sound like the Suns are full of 35 year olds and Jalen Smith.

And again, you are missing the point -- you are literally ignoring the roster makeup. At best, it's looking like he's going to be a decent player on the outside looking in--even if we had picked up the option year, where and when would he play? You can't expect DA to be out all season. At worse, he would have been not only taking up money that could go to a better player, he would also take up a roster spot. And whether right or wrong, last summer the Suns believed the latter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It really is okay to just say “well, looks The FO blew it on this one”. It happens.

 

[Mainstreet]

Eddie Johnson has said on more than one occasion on Bally Sports Arizona that he thought Jalen could play some power forward because he has a mid-range shot.

 

[Chaplin]

It really is okay to just say “well, looks The FO blew it on this one”. It happens.

Yeah it looks like they did blow it. But is it really that big of a deal? I don't think it is.

 

[Chaplin]

Eddie Johnson has said on more than one occasion on Bally Sports Arizona said he thought Jalen could play some power forward because he has a mid-range shot.

He certainly hasn't passed the eye test on that one for sure. He may have a mid-range, but he hasn't been able to play the 4 at any time.

 

[Phrazbit]

Extending Cam Payne, and certainly extending Cam Johnson.

And again, you are missing the point -- you are literally ignoring the roster makeup. At best, it's looking like he's going to be a decent player on the outside looking in--even if we had picked up the option year, where and when would he play? You can't expect DA to be out all season. At worse, he would have been not only taking up money that could go to a better player, he would also take up a roster spot. And whether right or wrong, last summer the Suns believed the latter.

The "money that could go to a better player" is still only from the perspective of ownership's bill, it has nothing to do with actual roster flexibility. And the argument of how could anything think he would play... well... here we are, he is playing. Injuries happen all the time in the NBA, it stood to reason he was going to get a chance to show himself.

And did the Suns "believe" the latter or is Sarver meddling and cheap... that is the real question. Sarver's history makes me think one thing, you think another, it is what it is.

 

[Chaplin]

The "money that could go to a better player" is still only from the perspective of ownership's bill, it has nothing to do with actual roster flexibility. And there argument of how could anything think he would play... well... here we are, he is playing. Injuries happen all the time in the NBA, it stood to reason he was going to get a chance to show himself.

And did the Suns "believe" the latter or is Sarver meddling and cheap... that is the real question. Sarver's history makes me think one thing, you think another, it is what it is.

I actually feel more like Sarver would think this decision was beneath him. That Smith isn't important enough to spend enough time on. He told James Jones to trim the fat, and this is what they came up with. Kaminsky was healthy and cheaper than Smith, and it is not a stretch to say they liked him more than Smith. If Frank was healthy, do you think Smith would get this many minutes? Hell, if Monty wasn't in protocols would Smith be getting this amount of minutes?

You are right, money did play a part, but I disagree that it played the only part.

 

[Mainstreet]

He certainly hasn't passed the eye test on that one for sure. He may have a mid-range, but he hasn't been able to play the 4 at any time.

I don't understand how you think a second year player is a finished product.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't understand how you think a second year player is a finished product.

When did I say that? We don't have the luxury to bring him along slowly. Not many contenders do.

 

[Mainstreet]

When did I say that? We don't have the luxury to bring him along slowly. Not many contenders do.

This is why teams have 15 man roster.