Jackson, Melton dumped

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, I will agree with this - he should have been traded at the deadline, because I am positive he was out of the plans by then.

They just said on Gambo's show, the suns are the ones that offered the 32nd pick to move him and Indiana was shocked by the offer. If that is true that is really bad.

Yeah if that is true that means jones is literally negotiating against himself. Terrible.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well James Jones certainly seems to think we don't.

Personally I feel we need one more major young piece - and I doubt it is cam johnson, so I hope we keep and use our pick next year.

agreed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I heard about it.

why didn't you ever mention it before today?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Also, we keep on forgetting we have a player in Ayton that with horrible utilization and coaching was well above a average center last year. This core has only upswing in it. I’m not sure what else the Suns could do to bring up the roster. DLO was never in play because the Suns front office consider him not a high character guy and not a max contract player.

GS, literally the smartest team in virtually all sports right now, must be total idiots to sign that guy to a max . . . [sarcasm]

 

[1Sun]

That 5 million dollar gap between Tyler Johnson's contract and Ryan Anderson's contract certainly caused a lot off issues.

Yup. I hate to say "I told you so", but...

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is my take:

I don’t think we needed to clear $$$. If I’m right we were $14M under cap. If we moved Melton and okobo that got us to $17M. And from everyone on here it seems that okobo Is gone and Melton was traded for nothing, so getting rid of them wasn’t a problem for the team. So they have Enough for Rubio. Could go over cap to resign Oubre. And could use exception to sign kaminsky. So JJ’s contract didn’t need to be moved. If I’m wrong, someone point it out please.

Jones has depleted our war chest of assets. And he has largely done so at their lowest value possible. Selling both TJ and JJ at their respective lows is terrible business.

JJ definitely was a flawed player. And had a flawed character. He was also one of our only guys with really high potential upside. So while I think overall our roster is improved from last season, I think our ceiling has lowered considerably. Here’s my take on our upside:

Ayton - sky is the limit
Booker - somewhat limited (but he’s already a star). I know many will argue but he’s so young! But athletically I think he’s peaked. And when you talk about transcendent players they were physical freaks (MJ, Kobe, LeBron, magic (due to being a 6’9 PG not his athleticism), McGrady, Kawhi, Durant (again, almost 7 footer with amazing movement skills) in some fashion and booker doesn’t have that. Will he get more heady? Yes. Will he become transcendent, I’m dubious at best
Oubre - he could ascend. And he’s got substantial upside but Washington gave him away for peanuts, he remains a poor passer, and even in his brief flash with us he wasn’t dominant. He’s got potential but I’d guess at 50-50 whether he maxes it out
Bridges - potential likely limits him a terrific 3-D guy. His balkhandling or lack thereof and limited athleticism at an already older young guy gives him a ceiling
Rubio - likely at ceiling
Saric - likely at ceiling
Baynes - likely at ceiling
Kaminsky - likely bear ceiking
Cam - likely high floor, low ceiling player unless he really surprises and becomes the next Reggie Miller
Jerome - similar high floor (though not as high as Cam) low ceiling player
Tyler - likely better than last year but he has limited upside
Jevon - likely tops out at Derrick fisher

So while I agree it’s a better collection of nba players and more evenly balanced roster. And it will likely outperform last years team. There’s very little upside, or at least on an individual by individual basis other than Ayton there’s not a lot of individual upside. No others with star power if it could only be harnessed. Which also means the collection of our current “assets” also aren’t likely to appreciate in value for future trades.

And for all JJ’s faults I believe he still had that. And imo Monty may have been the perfect coach to coax that outta him.

And that’s why if Ayton doesn’t become a transcendent player I believe the current iteration of the suns taps out at mediocre unless they accidentally strike gold in a future draft like they did with booker. Which is something we can’t, and shouldn’t, rely upon.

Just my two cents.

Btw, my mental state is stable for those of you concerned.

just for everyone concerned, I called to make sure he's not around any sharp objects.

 

[Johninromania]

This is my take:

I don’t think we needed to clear $$$. If I’m right we were $14M under cap. If we moved Melton and okobo that got us to $17M. And from everyone on here it seems that okobo Is gone and Melton was traded for nothing, so getting rid of them wasn’t a problem for the team. So they have Enough for Rubio. Could go over cap to resign Oubre. And could use exception to sign kaminsky. So JJ’s contract didn’t need to be moved. If I’m wrong, someone point it out please.

Jones has depleted our war chest of assets. And he has largely done so at their lowest value possible. Selling both TJ and JJ at their respective lows is terrible business.

JJ definitely was a flawed player. And had a flawed character. He was also one of our only guys with really high potential upside. So while I think overall our roster is improved from last season, I think our ceiling has lowered considerably. Here’s my take on our upside:

Ayton - sky is the limit
Booker - somewhat limited (but he’s already a star). I know many will argue but he’s so young! But athletically I think he’s peaked. And when you talk about transcendent players they were physical freaks (MJ, Kobe, LeBron, magic (due to being a 6’9 PG not his athleticism), McGrady, Kawhi, Durant (again, almost 7 footer with amazing movement skills) in some fashion and booker doesn’t have that. Will he get more heady? Yes. Will he become transcendent, I’m dubious at best
Oubre - he could ascend. And he’s got substantial upside but Washington gave him away for peanuts, he remains a poor passer, and even in his brief flash with us he wasn’t dominant. He’s got potential but I’d guess at 50-50 whether he maxes it out
Bridges - potential likely limits him a terrific 3-D guy. His balkhandling or lack thereof and limited athleticism at an already older young guy gives him a ceiling
Rubio - likely at ceiling
Saric - likely at ceiling
Baynes - likely at ceiling
Kaminsky - likely bear ceiking
Cam - likely high floor, low ceiling player unless he really surprises and becomes the next Reggie Miller
Jerome - similar high floor (though not as high as Cam) low ceiling player
Tyler - likely better than last year but he has limited upside
Jevon - likely tops out at Derrick fisher

So while I agree it’s a better collection of nba players and more evenly balanced roster. And it will likely outperform last years team. There’s very little upside, or at least on an individual by individual basis other than Ayton there’s not a lot of individual upside. No others with star power if it could only be harnessed. Which also means the collection of our current “assets” also aren’t likely to appreciate in value for future trades.

And for all JJ’s faults I believe he still had that. And imo Monty may have been the perfect coach to coax that outta him.

And that’s why if Ayton doesn’t become a transcendent player I believe the current iteration of the suns taps out at mediocre unless they accidentally strike gold in a future draft like they did with booker. Which is something we can’t, and shouldn’t, rely upon.

Just my two cents.

Btw, my mental state is stable for those of you concerned.

That’s what people don’t understand, TJ had no value and neither does JJ. It’s not bad business, TJ was what he was and the suns needed scoring on a bad team, he wasn’t to get much value even at his peak. JJ somehow got worse and everyone thought he was going to have a decent season. They rolled the dice and they lost time get them out of here. Jones doesn’t even want JJ in the building, was told he was viewed as a Cancer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A player to watch the Suns make a trade for and have interest in, is Aaron Gordon, not saying he is coming here. the Suns have interest in him and if the opportunity arises the suns will pull the trigger to acquire him.

He’s a guy that I’ve been thinking about for some time too.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I heard about it.

Where? When?

 

[JCSunsfan]

That’s what people don’t understand, TJ had no value and neither does JJ. It’s not bad business, TJ was what he was and the suns needed scoring on a bad team, he wasn’t to get much value even at his peak. JJ somehow got worse and everyone thought he was going to have a decent season. They rolled the dice and they lost time get them out of here. Jones doesn’t even want JJ in the building, was told he was viewed as a Cancer.

I think TJ should have had more value. We should have gotten a pick (2nd round) instead of giving one up for him. But it also looks like Jones just did not WANT to deal with more young players. I am not sure it makes that much difference in the long run, but still they should have done better trading TJ.

 

[Johninromania]

GS, literally the smartest team in virtually all sports right now, must be total idiots to sign that guy to a max . . . [sarcasm]

your Trying to compare the warriors to the Suns. Now take a step back and look at entirely two different situations and outlooks.

 

[Krangodnzr]

What is all this handwringing over JJ?

Dude was a piece of crap ball player. Seriously.

He was a blown draft pick the day he was picked. I hate drafting people on "potential". Draft good ball players.

 

[1Sun]

Look - I think the offseason could have been better. Jones did not use our assets to their max efficiency.

But if you don't think this team has improved - a lot - I think you are just wrong. Jackson was actually a negative when he played - but the suns had nobody who was better to play that time - now they do.

What this offseason has told me is that James Jones has some aptitude in overall team building, but he is atrocious at negotiating and maximizing asset value. In other words, he makes a fine scout or assistant GM, but he has no business being a GM or running basketball operations.

The front office equivalent of Igor Kokoskov.

 

[Johninromania]

I think TJ should have had more value. We should have gotten a pick (2nd round) instead of giving one up for him. But it also looks like Jones just did not WANT to deal with more young players. I am not sure it makes that much difference in the long run, but still they should have done better trading TJ.

I agree, I feel that he wanted just to Dump TJ.

 

[Yuma]

What this offseason has told me is that James Jones has some aptitude in overall team building, but he is atrocious at negotiating and maximizing asset value. In other words, he makes a fine scout or assistant GM, but he has no business being a GM or running basketball operations.

The front office equivalent of Igor Kokoskov.

He has a guy we brought in to help with negotiations. Technically doen't that guys suck?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

GS, literally the smartest team in virtually all sports right now, must be total idiots to sign that guy to a max . . . [sarcasm]

Okay and it has been heavily rumored that they only did it with the idea of trading him away at the trade deadline for something they need more. They are gambling that they will be able to showcase him and then be able to flip him later on for a piece that they need more. Knowing them they will probably pull it all off as well, but a part of me hopes it blows up in their face.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think TJ should have had more value. We should have gotten a pick (2nd round) instead of giving one up for him. But it also looks like Jones just did not WANT to deal with more young players. I am not sure it makes that much difference in the long run, but still they should have done better trading TJ.

Have you ever considered that maybe locker room issues have a factor here? Maybe his personality is an issue?

 

[Yuma]

JJ is in our lore forever as the guy who was our good luck charm getting the Suns their only #1 draft pick!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Most likely that pick will be traded, Jones is under tremendous pressure to right the ship quickly.

Never a good place for a new front office to work from. Makes you make short term deals for pennies on the dollar despite long term opportunities. Rarely works out in your favor.

 

[Yuma]

Gambo said trade of Korver will be tried first. If no takers, they will buy him out.

My guess if we get anything for Korver, probably a second rounder comes back.

Gambo says Okoboe trade will probably happen soon. Probably before Summer League game.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Where? When?

Gambo I think

 

[Phrazbit]

Yup. I hate to say "I told you so", but...

Yeah, well, you also said the Knicks were going to sign Oubre to a max contract.

 

[Johninromania]

What this offseason has told me is that James Jones has some aptitude in overall team building, but he is atrocious at negotiating and maximizing asset value. In other words, he makes a fine scout or assistant GM, but he has no business being a GM or running basketball operations.

The front office equivalent of Igor Kokoskov.

I’m not so sure about that, I think jones only made one bad move this offseason the TJ trade or what he got in return or sent to be more precise. The Draft is probably going to be considered one of the worst ever, so he basically had crap and crap to choose from.

 

[sdscard4]

Tj took his ball and went home. He was a horrible contract. See ya...JJ from the first moment I watched him play I wasn't impressed and was amazed he was rated so high. I think a lot of Phx fans thought 'that's it' When watching him play.i think the media really overrated that draft. I love Tyler Johnson I don't give 2 craps about the 5 million. He's one of our best trade assets right now and a tenacious player. Excited for this team

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That’s what people don’t understand, TJ had no value and neither does JJ. It’s not bad business, TJ was what he was and the suns needed scoring on a bad team, he wasn’t to get much value even at his peak. JJ somehow got worse and everyone thought he was going to have a decent season. They rolled the dice and they lost time get them out of here. Jones doesn’t even want JJ in the building, was told he was viewed as a Cancer.

You’re missing my point. Instead of making those assets out in earlier trades he rode them down to their lowest value where he had (or at least he thought he had) to attach positive assets to get rid of them. That’s not utilizing your assets to their max. It’s the opposite. It’s what gets most people canned in business.