Isaiah Simmons and the 5th year option

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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What can a different DC do that Vance hasn’t already done with him? Vance has put him in spots where others wanted him to, but he clearly can’t play at none of those spots at a high & consistent level.

People so badly believe this is Reddick 2.0, but Reddick was screwed from the start by playing a position he never played at in college. He wasn’t doing the same thing he was doing in college his first couple of years here.

Simmons, OTOH, has.

I want Simmons to succeed. I really do. However, I think people are more lenient with Simmons than any other Cardinal player in recent memory & I don’t know why.
He’s made more splash plays than most busts. Each one buys him a good deal of latitude. For right or wrong that’s my take.
 

slanidrac16

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i think Simmmons is one of two positions:

centerfield safety -- range / straightline speed help here, as will eyes on the play in front of him. Instincts though are a ?

ideally, 4-3 WOLB. half the field and 1/3 the responsibilities. Let him run and chase, blitz, drop.

Im not bothered that guys like Kittle and Kelce give him trouble-- they give everyone trouble.
This. There is a place for him on this team.
 

ajcardfan

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Pick up the option. It's a no brainer.

How many times can we keep making the same stupid mistake? That mindset (which is thick in the Cardinals fan base too) of "let's wait and really make them prove their value" has blown up in our faces again and again and again.

The new GM is here to do this thing. He had better not be Keim v 2.
 

Phrazbit

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We better pick this thing up... that we have not yet makes me think it is not going to happen. Is there any reason to wait? Makes no difference on this year's cap.

Of all the guys we have pissed away with poor development, this is one who seems like a near certainty to break out once he is given a solidified role.
 

ajcardfan

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I am overseas and checking in and what has happened in free agency. Season ticket deposits are due tomorrow. Allen and Murphy BOTH gone. The free agents we have signed are "meh" to put it kindly. And we might NOT pick up Simmons fifth year so we can lose him too after this season?

Why should I put another 4k into this team for this coming season? From the last play of the Packers game in 2021 and all last season home games have been miserable. And, this season could be WORSE. Much worse!
 

DVontel

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Of all the guys we have pissed away with poor development, this is one who seems like a near certainty to break out once he is given a solidified role.
What is this based off of?
 

Phrazbit

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What is this based off of?

We've had a terrible habit of drafting defensive guys, based on size and athletic markers, and assigning them new positions in the NFL. We took this to a whole new level with Simmons. We decided the guy could play everywhere, so we didn't assign him anywhere.

I suspect that our interior/exterior linebacker, edge rusher, safety, slot corner would probably have found more footing if we'd given him one role instead of 5.

I think his best role is an outside linebacker. Someone, hopefully us, will slap him there, and I think he will excel, pass rushing and shutting down outside tackle runs on his side of the field.

Oh, and if it wasn't confusing enough to ask him to play 5 positions, we also opened the season asking him to tell everyone else to go.

Simmons is a player we, through massive incompetence, set up for failure.
 

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We've had a terrible habit of drafting defensive guys, based on size and athletic markers, and assigning them new positions in the NFL. We took this to a whole new level with Simmons. We decided the guy could play everywhere, so we didn't assign him anywhere.

I suspect that our interior/exterior linebacker, edge rusher, safety, slot corner would probably have found more footing if we'd given him one role instead of 5.

I think his best role is an outside linebacker. Someone, hopefully us, will slap him there, and I think he will excel, pass rushing and shutting down outside tackle runs on his side of the field.

Oh, and if it wasn't confusing enough to ask him to play 5 positions, we also opened the season asking him to tell everyone else to go.

Simmons is a player we, through massive incompetence, set up for failure.

He was used in VJ's scheme in almost precisely the same fashion as in College.

Hopefully, he'll be used in a more precise fashion going forward, and the White signing may be an indication.
 

DVontel

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We decided the guy could play everywhere
So, what he did in college?
pass rushing
Something he never did exclusively since playing football?


Vance put him in the same position his coaches did in college. The reason he’s not excelling here as opposed to college is because he’s not playing against inferior ACC athletes while being on a great defensive team anymore.
 

Phrazbit

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So, what he did in college?

Something he never did exclusively since playing football?


Vance put him in the same position his coaches did in college. The reason he’s not excelling here as opposed to college is because he’s not playing against inferior ACC athletes while being on a great defensive team anymore.

You are correct that Vance used him the same way his college coaches did... playing 5 positions.

His college coaches did so because he was so fantastically athletically gifted that he could flash anywhere, especially against weak competition.

Vance followed suit... because Vance was bad at his job.

Lets see how he does if you focus him at one position... instead of 5.

I think he will improve dramatically.
 

ajcardfan

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So, what he did in college?

Something he never did exclusively since playing football?


Vance put him in the same position his coaches did in college. The reason he’s not excelling here as opposed to college is because he’s not playing against inferior ACC athletes while being on a great defensive team anymore.
Sounds like stuff people said about Reddick. In fact, copy and paste from.old Reddick threads and just change the names to save time.
 

QuebecCard

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You are correct that Vance used him the same way his college coaches did... playing 5 positions.

His college coaches did so because he was so fantastically athletically gifted that he could flash anywhere, especially against weak competition.

Vance followed suit... because Vance was bad at his job.

Lets see how he does if you focus him at one position... instead of 5.

I think he will improve dramatically.

Sean Payton, the darling of this site a while back, begs to disagree.

P.S. So does Allen, who decamped for Denver.
 

DVontel

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Sounds like stuff people said about Reddick. In fact, copy and paste from.old Reddick threads and just change the names to save time.
Well, if they did, they weren’t thinking with logic.

I have said this verbatim repeatedly.

Reddick did not play the same position he did in college. He was a 3-4 EDGE at Temple. In the NFL, thanks to the big brain of Steve Keim & the coaching staff, he got moved to ILB in a 3-4. Not even remotely close to the same thing. Nothing similar between college & the NFL. What happened when he finally got moved to EDGE permanently? He has been flourishing.

Simmons, OTOH, has been playing all these positions in the league just like he was in college. The same thing he was doing at Clemson, he has been doing in the league. Difference is he’s not going up against much inferior athletes anymore. He has been a letdown at every position. He might make a splash play or two, but he flirts with the line of liability because he cannot defend the run, especially inside runs, nor he can’t cover anything if it isn’t a 9 route.


To make a long story short, Reddick didn’t do the same thing he did in college to start his NFL career. Simmons….has.
 

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I am overseas and checking in and what has happened in free agency. Season ticket deposits are due tomorrow. Allen and Murphy BOTH gone. The free agents we have signed are "meh" to put it kindly. And we might NOT pick up Simmons fifth year so we can lose him too after this season?

Why should I put another 4k into this team for this coming season? From the last play of the Packers game in 2021 and all last season home games have been miserable. And, this season could be WORSE. Much worse!
I guess if you look at it from that standpoint, then yes, you shouldn’t buy the tickets. I guess I’m not sure why everyone is surprised the Cardinals are going scorched earth. Just remember that we went 4-13 with these players last year. I really don’t think Bidwill is intervening either. He’s hired MO to do exactly this. Rebuild this team from scratch no matter what short term pain is involved. It may work, and it may not. I can’t wait to see this board freak out when we trade down twice in the first round. If it means we will build a physical team instead of the finesse garbage we’ve had to watch since BA left, then I’ll take the short term pain. But, make no mistake, MO & Gannon will sink or swim with the system & players they want here. I don’t see them re-signing Simmons either. They simply don’t believe that an ILB is EVER worth the kind of money that it would take to keep him. No sense being angry about it. In 2-3 years they may end up heroes for taking this approach. Time will tell. The problem is older fans like myself are running out of time to ever see this team turn this mess around.
 
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AsUpRoDiGy

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Since Monti is full speed ahead on the tank job...I think it's safe to assume Isaiah's option will not be picked up.
 

PACardsFan

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Since Monti is full speed ahead on the tank job...I think it's safe to assume Isaiah's option will not be picked up.
Nothing to do with tanking. Everything to do with CHANGE. And change can & will most likely will result in early losses. Something had to change here. Give Bidwill credit for FINALLY ripping off the bandaid. MO/Gannon have seen what it takes to build successful franchises. No reason to bitch about what’s happening. Should have happened years ago.
 

DVontel

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Since Monti is full speed ahead on the tank job...I think it's safe to assume Isaiah's option will not be picked up.
Keeping Isaiah would mean Monti is full speed ahead on the tank job.
 

DVontel

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Is Isaiah the most overrated player on this board by far?

It can’t be Kyler because he catches more slander than praise on here.

Pretty sure K9 & I are the only ones that critique Isaiah repeatedly.
 

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