Is It The Ball?

[George O'Brien]

I didn't see the video, but I'm told the Suns had a lot of turnovers and missed layups. Perhaps it was because the ball was slippery.

The initial player reactions to the new ball have been universally bad. So bad in fact that Stern has said he will "look into it". My suspicion is that the player's union may get involved because there are a number of players with performance features in their contracts and changing the ball could effect their performances.

 

[sly fly]

Player's union has no say per last CBA.

Whoever made this decision a.) really sucked at basketball as a kid, and has no idea what a leather ball feels like. Or, b.) really sucked at basketball as a kid, and has no idea what a leather ball feels like.

 

[elindholm]

Have you tried the ball? The league had a few former players test it out and they thought it was just fine.

I suspect that the current players are complaining just because they like to gripe, the same way they do about anything. O'Neal is delighted to have found one more thing to distract writers from his poor conditioning and inability to shoot free throws, and his is the only truly energetic voice of opposition. Everyone else I've read has shrugged, "It's different, but we'll get used to it."

 

[mathbzh]

What!!! Oneal can't hit his FT... this new ball sucks...
If the same goes with Big Ben FT ability, I think we should go back to these good old balls

 

[Louis]

Reggie Miller and Steve Kerr both like the ball.

Which says a lot to me.

 

[nowagimp]

Player's union has no say per last CBA.

Whoever made this decision a.) really sucked at basketball as a kid, and has no idea what a leather ball feels like. Or, b.) really sucked at basketball as a kid, and has no idea what a leather ball feels like.

Sounds right to me, having played some ball in my time and knowing that I used to hate new rubber "outdoor" balls with the extra tacticity. I could palm them better, but it hurts a consistent touch when trying to get rotation on the ball for a shot(it grips too much), and when dribbling on a penetration, the ball does not slide across the fingertips. Yeah it was easier to dunk because of the grip, so what. I suspect that is some kind of marketing stunt to encourage more acrobatic dunks. Either steve Nash is a complainer(yeah right), or reggie miller and steve kerr are "sucking up" to "the man", David Stern(much more likely). You have to remember in corporate america that management does not admit mistakes if at all possible. Keep sucking up to the man boys and you will be rewarded, screw with him and you will not be on any short lists for opportunities granted by the most powerful man in sports.

 

[haverford]

I tend to agree with Nowagimp on this. It is unlike Nash to complain so vociferously, if at all. The ball is an issue and will, it seems, have an effect on quality of play. Whatever you may think of Shaq, Nash is not just filling air time......

 

[sly fly]

Have you tried the ball? The league had a few former players test it out and they thought it was just fine.

I suspect that the current players are complaining just because they like to gripe, the same way they do about anything. O'Neal is delighted to have found one more thing to distract writers from his poor conditioning and inability to shoot free throws, and his is the only truly energetic voice of opposition. Everyone else I've read has shrugged, "It's different, but we'll get used to it."

Doesn't matter if I tried the new ball. However, I've played with PLENTY of synthetic balls... and there's no comparison.

Leather gets broken in, and develops an awesome "feel".

Synthetic can feel OK, depending on what type... but there has to be something wrong if many players are complaining. And, I highly doubt the complaints are just for "air time".

If it wasn't about marketing, why the hell did they have to change the look of it?

Why mess with something if it's not broke?

 

[elindholm]

Why mess with something if it's not broke?

I haven't tried the synthetic ball, so I don't know how bad it is. I read somewhere (but don't remember where) that there were complaints about the "old" leather balls, particularly that they weren't very consistent from ball to ball or even over the course of a game. I'm sure we've all been in pickup games where there are three or four different leather balls to choose from and massive argument about which one will be used.

 

[Nash]

They did have Reggie Miller, Steve Kerr and a few others shoot the new ball around in MSG to evaluate it. They liked the ball but the crucial fact that was missed was that they ONLY SHOT the ball around for a brief while.

The current players actually used the ball in practice during which the ball is much more likely to become wet from sweat. That is when the new ball starts creating problems. Clearly this is a scenario that Kerr and Reggie didn't test out.

The grouse from the players is definitely legit, otherwise why would you think Stern would actually bow to the pressure and send in the ball for testing?

Speaking to reporters in Paris before Sunday's exhibition game between the San Antonio Spurs and Maccabi Tel-Aviv, Stern conceded for the first time that reverting to the old leather ball is a possibility if the rigorous testing he has just ordered validates the widespread complaints about the ball -- particularly its tendency to become slippery when wet. "We have sent out the most stringent testing crew to see what there is to the issue," Stern said when asked if returning to leather was under consideration.
"Right now our plans are to stay the course, but we will monitor it and if we find there is something to it and it is a serious issue, we will take the appropriate steps because the most important thing to us is the game.
"We have gone out and done tests. We have wet both balls. When the [old] leather ball is wet at the end of the game, it is very slippery.

 

[nowagimp]

They did have Reggie Miller, Steve Kerr and a few others shoot the new ball around in MSG to evaluate it. They liked the ball but the crucial fact that was missed was that they ONLY SHOT the ball around for a brief while.

The current players actually used the ball in practice during which the ball is much more likely to become wet from sweat. That is when the new ball starts creating problems. Clearly this is a scenario that Kerr and Reggie didn't test out.

The grouse from the players is definitely legit, otherwise why would you think Stern would actually bow to the pressure and send in the ball for testing?

Yeah, "stay the course" and make the initial decision without testing, sounds like alot of crap to me. Iguess that he'll now test the balls since the crap has hit the fan. Just like last year when Stern needed repays of botched calls that decided several playoff games to determine that "some calls are missed".

Virtually all polymer composites do not absorb water, it beads up on the surface because they repel water, unlike leather. Thats why these composites will behave like a "slip and slide" when wet. Maybe because I have a chemistry degree, it just looks like idiocy to me, its so obvious. I'll bet there was virtually no "game condition" testing of these balls, or maybe, gee I dunno, do NBA players sweat?

 

[Louis]

So which is it? Is it slippery? Or is it sticky?

Because there's a sticky balls thread here too.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=79178

 

[ampersand]

The complaint is that it's extremely sticky until it gets wet, then it's very slippery.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Why mess with something if it's not broke?

I haven't tried the synthetic ball, so I don't know how bad it is. I read somewhere (but don't remember where) that there were complaints about the "old" leather balls, particularly that they weren't very consistent from ball to ball or even over the course of a game. I'm sure we've all been in pickup games where there are three or four different leather balls to choose from and massive argument about which one will be used.

I think you may have read that in an article on nba.com when they unveiled the new ball. I think this because I read an article on the new ball on nba.com, and they said something like what you're saying about the old balls. If this is the case, I'm not sure it's validity, as the league would've found any reason to push this new ball, and "complaints" about the old ball would have helped push it.

 

[TucsonDevil]

This whole "new Ball" thing reminds me of the time Coke wanted to mix things up a bit - to stave off pressure from Pepsi. They came out with a 'new' formula. Well after all Hell broke lose, they re-announced "Coke Classic". This lead to many thinking they did the whole thing on purpose.

...my belief? It wasn't on purpose. They tested the drink, time and time again with study groups and found many liked it better. What they didn't figure on was the backlash from those already addicted to the "Coke" taste.

It seems to me that David Stern has a similar problem.

 

[Nash]

So which is it? Is it slippery? Or is it sticky?

Because there's a sticky balls thread here too.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=79178

From what I've read in reports, there's a little bit of both. Apparently, when the ball is new, the grip is much better, thereby making it easier to palm/carry the ball. At this stage, they say the ball kinds 'sticks' to the hand esp. when shooting mid-range. As the game progresses, the ball gets wet and tends to slip out of the players' hands for the reason nowagimp stated.

I have a question now : so previous balls absorbed the sweat , thereby staying relatively dry on the surface....but didn't the increased weight of the ball from all the absorption affect the shooting in the latter parts of games?

 

[nowagimp]

From what I've read in reports, there's a little bit of both. Apparently, when the ball is new, the grip is much better, thereby making it easier to palm/carry the ball. At this stage, they say the ball kinds 'sticks' to the hand esp. when shooting mid-range. As the game progresses, the ball gets wet and tends to slip out of the players' hands for the reason nowagimp stated.

I have a question now : so previous balls absorbed the sweat , thereby staying relatively dry on the surface....but didn't the increased weight of the ball from all the absorption affect the shooting in the latter parts of games?

This is a good question, whether adding several grams of weight changes the shooting effort. As players fatigue, or start to lose their legs, the ball also feels heavier. It also requires more strength to shoot an elevated jumpshot(shooting at the top of the jump), than shooting on the way up(momentum reinforces the shot), or a set shot where the feet or planted. I suspect that the human mind deals with this in a compensatory fashion, but dealing with extremes in grip is much more difficult.

As far a grip on the ball, I always used the seams of the ball on at least 2 fingertips to launch a jumpshot. As I picked the ball up for a shot, I would rotate it in my hand, slide it to feel for seams. This can also be done(feel for the seams) off the dribble for a quick shot, or after picking the ball up for a more deliberate shot, but the ball must slide in the hands some. I would quickly locate my fingertips at seams and use the grip of the seams to add the touch on the shot, get the proper ball rotation. With a grippy ball, sliding your hand over it to feel for the seams is more difficult to do quickly and then take a shot quickly, I just tended to get the ball stuck in my hand trying to search for the seams, delaying the quick shot motion. With a slippery ball, it is just a mess handling the ball alltogether. I always had more problems with new outdoor balls as I couldnt slide my fingers over the ball(a reflex motion) to feel for the seams. If I were a player, I wouldnt want to change my learned shooting reflexes because some marketing guy had a "great idea". Im on the side of the players on this one.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just a few questions on the ball issue. I understand the "sticky" idea. Players, especially pg's have developed a touch over the years, allowing the ball to slide in their hands when dribbling and passing. This new ball makes that different.

But I don't understand the slippery thing. Why not use multiple balls in a game? Let the team with possession on a dead ball switch any time they want for a fresh ball. Jeez, its the NBA, they can afford it. Good grief, they could sell them off after the game ("Game used" balls, like the pieces of jersies they hawk), and they would make a mint.