Is it Gentry's Fault?

[Cheesewater]

I know there is a thread about Gentry never coaching the Suns to a title, but I was curious to know how many think Alvin Gentry is mostly to blame for whatever ails this current team.

 

[Covert Rain]

I know there is a thread about Gentry never coaching the Suns to a title, but I was curious to know how many think Alvin Gentry is mostly to blame for whatever ails this current team.

Listen, I get that Gentry could use some more talent on this team. What coach couldn't use more talent.

Gentry IMO has been suffering from "D'Antoni-itis" this season. His ego got really big IMO after what the Suns did last year. Gentry refuses to see what most people see. His comments recently about Lopez either show he has completely lost it and delusional or his ego won't let him admit he is wrong.

As a result....Gentry has made some lineup and rotation decisions that would baffle just about any coach in the NBA. In fact, analyst have been questioning it all season long.

Fact.....Fropez should not be a starter.

Fact.....Carter should not be a starter.

Fact......Statistically the Suns have really slow starts either at the start of the game or the start of the first half with those 2 on the court.

Fact.....Gentry has routinely been out coached in close games this season.

Gentry is not 100% at fault but he is a HUGE part of the problem this season.

 

[FArting]

They play to the level of their opponents.

 

[Chaz]

Your facts are suspect.

Would those players be more effective as bench players?

I don't think they would. If they are going to play at all I don't know that starting positions are really that important.

I keep hearing about bad starts but I have yet to see evidence that it is more often than not.

I think you can nitpick some mistakes here and there but he is a good coach.

 

[mojorizen7]

Voted no,he's a good coach who shares part of the blame,but who should stay.
Gentry isn't the GM,nor is he tied into Sarvers crew of basketball accountants.........but i've seen Gentry(last season) draw blood from a stone so to speak.

From what little samples i've seen this season(about a dozen gm's or so) he just appears to be following the company guideline.....but failing to step up for the good of the team at times. That could be a naive observation.

I don't know if Gentry is the long-term answer,but i think most of the problem lies over his head.

 

[Covert Rain]

Your facts are suspect.

Would those players be more effective as bench players?

I don't think they would. If they are going to play at all I don't know that starting positions are really that important.

I keep hearing about bad starts but I have yet to see evidence that it is more often than not.

I think you can nitpick some mistakes here and there but he is a good coach.

Well those stats were posted on another thread. The Suns dating back to Jan have trailed either at the end of the 1st or the end of the 3rd in 47% of their games. That includes having one of the softest schedules in the NBA for the month of Feb or we would have easily hit 50%. If you don't think that is a problem...I can't help you. All I know is it was Gentry earlier in the season that said playing catch-up takes it's toll on a team over the course of a game and that playing with a lead is easier. Not my words.

Now lets factor in how many times the Suns have trailed in rebounds at the end of the 1st or by the end of the 3rd. That stat is so bad it's not worth mentioning.

So even if you for some reason don't think playing catchup at nearly a 50% clip is significant or getting killed on the boards by the end of those periods....are you saying the following is true:

Lopez should start, Carter should start and Gentry has not been out coached in close games this season? What about his comments about Lopez being the future and being thought of as the 2nd most important piece on the team? You believe any of those "facts"? Do you honestly believe that having two fifths of your starting lineup (who wouldn't be starting on other teams)..has no impact in most of the games above?

Because if you do than maybe Gentry is not just a good coach...he must be GREAT and the rest of the world delusional. We should dust off the rafters for all the title banners that will soon hang from above. Then we should clear off shelf space for all the the awards Lopez is going to win as a player. I am calling it now......Gentry and Lopez's faces will be next to each other in the Ring of Honor someday.

 

[sunsfan88]

Gentry needs to leave. He doesn't demand anythin from his players. Too many times this season our team came out looking uninterested. It's his job to motivate them to play well.

Then when players screw around in practice, he leaves without talkin to reporters instead of trying to get into the face of the players not focusing.

It ain't all his fault but he could have done better.

We need a defensive head since Nash is likely leaving anyway. A coach that will enforce discipline.We need to become a defensive team.

 

[Chaz]

Well those stats were posted on another thread. The Suns dating back to Jan have trailed either at the end of the 1st or the end of the 3rd in 47% of their games. That includes having one of the softest schedules in the NBA for the month of Feb or we would have easily hit 50%. If you don't think that is a problem...I can't help you. All I know is it was Gentry earlier in the season that said playing catch-up takes it's toll on a team over the course of a game and that playing with a lead is easier. Not my words.

Now lets factor in how many times the Suns have trailed in rebounds at the end of the 1st or by the end of the 3rd. That stat is so bad it's not worth mentioning.

So even if you for some reason don't think playing catchup at nearly a 50% clip is significant or getting killed on the boards by the end of those periods....are you saying the following is true:

Lopez should start, Carter should start and Gentry has not been out coached in close games this season? What about his comments about Lopez being the future and being thought of as the 2nd most important piece on the team? You believe any of those "facts"? Do you honestly believe that having two fifths of your starting lineup (who wouldn't be starting on other teams)..has no impact in most of the games above?

Because if you do than maybe Gentry is not just a good coach...he must be GREAT and the rest of the world delusional. We should dust off the rafters for all the title banners that will soon hang from above. Then we should clear off shelf space for all the the awards Lopez is going to win as a player. I am calling it now......Gentry and Lopez's faces will be next to each other in the Ring of Honor someday.

I didn't say they should start. I am saying that Gentry's decision to start them isn't worth firing him over given the alternatives available to him.

Really, a .500 team trailed at some point in almost half the games?

Now your telling me the Suns are not a good rebounding team?


We could have been contenders this year! If only we had a coach!




Maybe Terry Porter is available.

 

[Chaplin]

Gentry needs to leave. He doesn't demand anythin from his players. Too many times this season our team came out looking uninterested. It's his job to motivate them to play well.

Then when players screw around in practice, he leaves without talkin to reporters instead of trying to get into the face of the players not focusing.

It ain't all his fault but he could have done better.

We need a defensive head since Nash is likely leaving anyway. A coach that will enforce discipline.We need to become a defensive team.

We tried that and it was a disaster.

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO, Gentry has been trying to milk a dry cow all season by trying to lengthen the talent that is not there by using bench players as starters. He has been trying to get the Suns into the playoffs even though Nash is injured and Carter and Lopez should not even be starting, as well as an injured Pietrus. When Gortat goes out injured there is not much left in the cookie jar. The Suns desperately needed a player like Carl Laundry last night.

Since I don't think any other coach would have a winning record with the the Suns talent level, I voted "Sort of, it's less than 50% his fault but he should stay."


______________________

 

[AzStevenCal]

Usually, I look at our roster and compare it to others and I get excited for the season to start. This year, I looked at our roster and compared it to others and I began to dread the season would start. It improved somewhat when we acquired Gortat but still, this is not an impressive roster. I'm not sure Gentry maximized the talents of his players but I"m not sure the end result would have been any different even if we had the best coach on the planet. I won't be devastated if he's fired as I've never been much of a Gentry fan but I don't see how he gets roasted for this season.

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

It wasn't our roster, especially after Edoh! left. It wasn't our owner or GM, they got Gortat and Brooks here, both are good.
Coach Gentry has been messing it up for a while now, he went from changing the line up every night out of desperation, found something semi successful, but it had Lopez and Carter in it.
Gentry's fault, with out a doubt, I hope he is long gone next year. (Carter too)

I hope Lopez is here next year, we won't get any trade value out of him. I think he can do just fine as a back up C.

I say with a good defensive coach, and basically the same team, we will make the playoffs next year.

Gentry sucks

 

[AzStevenCal]

It wasn't our roster, especially after Edoh! left. It wasn't our owner or GM, they got Gortat and Brooks here, both are good.
Coach Gentry has been messing it up for a while now, he went from changing the line up every night out of desperation, found something semi successful, but it had Lopez and Carter in it.
Gentry's fault, with out a doubt, I hope he is long gone next year. (Carter too)

I hope Lopez is here next year, we won't get any trade value out of him. I think he can do just fine as a back up C.

I say with a good defensive coach, and basically the same team, we will make the playoffs next year.

Gentry sucks

Not much of a prediction. We would have made the playoffs this year if Gentry hadn't had to face a horribly imbalanced roster to begin the season and then re-shape the roster a few months later when several key pieces were swapped. With a healthy Nash, we'll always be a playoff caliber team. Who wants a team who's ceiling is playoff caliber?

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

Not much of a prediction. We would have made the playoffs this year if Gentry hadn't had to face a horribly imbalanced roster to begin the season and then re-shape the roster a few months later when several key pieces were swapped. With a healthy Nash, we'll always be a playoff caliber team. Who wants a team who's ceiling is playoff caliber?

Steve

Gentry ran Nash into the ground, before and during his current injury. The front of the house brought in Brooks and Gortat,(with plenty of time left in the season) but they messed it up when they didn't fire Gentry.


Shawn

 

[AfroSuns]

We would be in the playoffs;
if Frye wasn't injured
If Nash's pelvic did not impeded his performance since ASB
I have no doubt we will be vying for 5 or 4 spot if the Gortat deal has been done much earlier.

Gentry lost his most potent player this season and was replaced by (as sir Charles will say) bunch of "Tito Jackson".
Quantity don't mean quality.
The leading scorer on this team is 37yr old Nash, who is mostly a distributor.
Gentry has one of the deepest bench in the league, he may not be a great coach but he and his coaching staff are doing just fine considering the crap-shoot that has being this season.

I will wait till next season after a full off season to see what adjustments they made, without injuries, without major trades before declaring he needs to go.

 

[desertdawg]

Gentry didn't have a good bench, he had starters coming off the bench, any other coach would have made the switch, next year's coach definitely will.

 

[AfroSuns]

Gentry didn't have a good bench, he had starters coming off the bench, any other coach would have made the switch, next year's coach definitely will.

Well its a good thing that Sarver or Babby are not that dumb, i will be surprised if Gentry is fired.

 

[Covert Rain]

I didn't say they should start. I am saying that Gentry's decision to start them isn't worth firing him over given the alternatives available to him.

Really, a .500 team trailed at some point in almost half the games?

Now your telling me the Suns are not a good rebounding team?


We could have been contenders this year! If only we had a coach!


Maybe Terry Porter is available.

At first you questioned the slow starts which I was responding to and now you are acknowledging them. I also pointed out several other things wrong with Gentry like his comments about Lopez and his ass whoopings in close games this season. That is on top of his lineup decisions. You left all that out. I think all that speaks to his coaching and his ego getting in the way. So, it's not just one thing as you allude too.

I didn't go as far as saying Gentry should be fired right now. Although I do support firing him when the Nash era is over. I have no confidence in him making the right decisions for the future based on his actions this year.

Also, the Suns look much better on the boards when Gortat is out there. The topic wasn't if the Suns suck overall at rebounding. It was how do they look after the start of the 1st and 3rd. Actually the suns have move up a bit overall since the Gortat trade.

Last but no least you are going to pull the Porter card? OK. Well than I will pull this one.......Phil, Pop, Karl, Doc and a few other coaches I could think of could get more out of this team and I bet solidly in a playoff position versus Gentry.

P.S. I am also pretty close to 100% positive that given the same roster that Lopez & Carter wouldn't be in the starting lineup with any of those coaches. I bet Porter could even make that call as crappy as a coach he was. I also don't see those coaches calling Lopez "the future and 2nd most important piece".

 

[AfroSuns]

Last but no least you are going to pull the Porter card? OK. Well than I will pull this one.......Phil, Pop, Karl, Doc and a few other coaches I could think of could get more out of this team and I bet solidly in a playoff position versus Gentry.
".

Are you sure about this?
Phil with Kobe and Lamar and couldn't get past the Suns for a couple of years
Gentry first year we swept a Popovich Spurs team using less talented Suns team than in recent years. Mostly due to a good bench.
You think Carl couldn't have gotten more than a WCF from a core of Melo, Anthony and Nene after all those years together.
How do you think Doc would have fared without their big 3? and most of their good defense is attributed to Thibodeau.
I will say Phil, Pop and Karl are better coaches, but I think it is reaching to assume they could have gotten more without actually seeing them in that situation.

 

[sunsfan88]

We tried that and it was a disaster.

Yea cause we had Nash and Amare then & both are awful defenders. Nash is likely to be traded this off season so we have to change to a style that wins or at least contends for titles.

If we can get a playmakin PG like Felton who is a good defender, we would be set. We have to make the transition from being an offensively minded team to a defense-first team.

The "run n gun" is exciting and fun to watch but I would rather be watching us compete for a title.

 

[BC867]

I was a big supporter of Alvin Gentry. He certainly was given an obstacle course by the Front Office and kept us hanging in there.

But once he had a more workable roster, they remained mediocre.

Not putting your best unit on the floor to start each game and establish psychological control has certainly been a bug up my a$$.

But what I am most disappointed in is his lack of taking charge. Right up until today, with Paul Coro's quote that Gentry "hinted" that he may change the starting lineup.

I want to see a coach who has the courage of his convictions and takes a stand, rather than one who hints, laying the way for abandoning the idea before it has a chance to gel.

He's done that before, and recently, when he said that Gortat would be starting the 3rd quarters, then left it in the dust two games later.

 

[Chaplin]

Gentry isn't going anywhere.

 

[BC867]

I raised this point in another thread, but I think it belongs here.

If, every day in practice, the Suns starting unit goes against the 2nd unit, which group have Gortat and Dudley played with?

The 1st unit, because they get the bulk of the minutes at their respective positions? If not, that doesn't build chemistry.

Or the 2nd unit, because Lopez and Carter have been the starters at their positions? If so, that also doesn't build chemistry.

The concept of giving subs starters' minutes goes beyond the games every second day. It effects daily practices as well.

There is an old saying. Practice makes perfect. No it doesn't.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

'Just another reason for dissatisfaction with Alvin Gentry as a complete coach.

Especially since he obviously knows that the guys who get the minutes should be the ones starting, but wasted all these months.

Add to that the reduced minutes of Nash lately and the performances of Aaron Brooks, he has wasted weeks as well.

We should have made the playoffs with our roster.

 

[Cheesewater]

I raised this point in another thread, but I think it belongs here.

If, every day in practice, the Suns starting unit goes against the 2nd unit, which group have Gortat and Dudley played with?

The 1st unit, because they get the bulk of the minutes at their respective positions? If not, that doesn't build chemistry.

Or the 2nd unit, because Lopez and Carter have been the starters at their positions? If so, that also doesn't build chemistry.

The concept of giving subs starters' minutes goes beyond the games every second day. It effects daily practices as well.

There is an old saying. Practice makes perfect. No it doesn't.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

'Just another reason for dissatisfaction with Alvin Gentry as a complete coach.

Especially since he obviously knows that the guys who get the minutes should be the ones starting, but wasted all these months.

Add to that the reduced minutes of Nash lately and the performances of Aaron Brooks, he has wasted weeks as well.

We should have made the playoffs with our roster.

Is that how the Suns practice? Just 1st unit against 2nd unit? I doubt it.

And which roster? The one at the beginning of the season? The one after the first trade? After the second? During the injuries?

 

[elindholm]

Is that how the Suns practice? Just 1st unit against 2nd unit? I doubt it.

Of course not. It's just another absurd oversimplification offered as flimsy evidence to support a myopic thesis.