Interest in McKinnie- per King/Rotoworld

[dogpoo32]

Is this considered baggage. Any decent strip clubbs in the desert?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/10/30/bryant-mckinnie-sued-trick-daddy-father/1668491/

Trick Grand Daddy sounds like a very charitable guy.

 

[40yearfan]

40, I am prepared to bash on Graves (surprise, right?), but not for anything you mentioned, or any of the injury replacement issues. My beef with Graves? He doesn't have the sack to tell KW what needs to be done. Do you see him calling KW into his office and telling him, in no uncertain terms, to fire Grimm? Do you see him firing Miller without KW's consent, and replacing him with an OC who will not just be a KW lapdog? I sure in the heck don't see it.

Fair enough. I don't agree that you should go over a coaches head like that, but it is a plausible method of management and a course that Graves could take. There are no starters available, so faulting him for not doing something in that area is silly.

 

[40yearfan]

The real question is Is Rod Graves the personnel GM or is he the contract GM? I don't think any knows what the answer is. I think that whomever is the the talent evaluator for offensive lineman isn't very good.

I think Grimm has a lot to do with that and I agree with Stout that he should be fired. Way too much money for the results.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

What would be the cost?

I dunno.

But, the counter to that question is, what will the cost be for not improving the line when opportunity presents itself.

If the Cardinals were more pro-active they could have had Chris Williams, and Bryan McKinnie as there starting OT's after the bye week.

Instead, more of the same. What will be the cost of more of the same ?

What is the cost if S.O.C. sounds across the airwaves, blogs, and thoughts of the NFL ?

What is the cost of Russ Grimm becoming the laughing stock of the NFL ?

I dunno.

This is the line the Cardinals wanted to go with. Again, if Levi Brown and Jeremy Bridges is the answer, I would love to know the question. And considering the offensive line, Rod Graves has his share of the blame, and it is more than justifiable.

In March, during the offseason when they decided Levi Brown, and Jeremy Bridges were going to start, that is a fail. The players on the field currently, were the backup plan back then in March. Even the biggest Graves apologist cannot contest that this plan, and the reprocussions of this plan that are being felt currently, are from a plan made when everyone was healthy and other options were on the table.

We will never know, but in my opinion, we are still having a similar conversation even if the offensive line was completely healthy at this point and time. Levi Brown may be better than D'Anthony Batiste, but not by that much, and not by enough to make a difference, IMHO.

 

[40yearfan]

I dunno.

But, the counter to that question is, what will the cost be for not improving the line when opportunity presents itself.

If the Cardinals were more pro-active they could have had Chris Williams, and Bryan McKinnie as there starting OT's after the bye week.

Instead, more of the same. What will be the cost of more of the same ?

What is the cost if S.O.C. sounds across the airwaves, blogs, and thoughts of the NFL ?

What is the cost of Russ Grimm becoming the laughing stock of the NFL ?

I dunno.

This is the line the Cardinals wanted to go with. Again, if Levi Brown and Jeremy Bridges is the answer, I would love to know the question. And considering the offensive line, Rod Graves has his share of the blame, and it is more than justifiable.

In March, during the offseason when they decided Levi Brown, and Jeremy Bridges were going to start, that is a fail. The players on the field currently, were the backup plan back then in March. Even the biggest Graves apologist cannot contest that this plan, and the reprocussions of this plan that are being felt currently, are from a plan made when everyone was healthy and other options were on the table.

We will never know, but in my opinion, we are still having a similar conversation even if the offensive line was completely healthy at this point and time. Levi Brown may be better than D'Anthony Batiste, but not by that much, and not by enough to make a difference, IMHO.

Rugby, if you don't think Brown and Bridges are a major upgrade over what we have now, I will have to disagree with you. And that's in the running game as well as the passing game. I'd be willing to bet we would only have 25% of the sacks allowed that we have now and Kolb would still be QB.

What gets me is that it looks like our OT's are getting worse instead of learning their position and playing better. That has to go direct to coaching.

 

[Superfuzz]

Graves has had years to fix the OL. He didn't.

This isn't about making trades midseason. This is about having tens of draft picks and offseasons to fix it. And what have we gotten? The Packers' and Niners' reject guards (when what really need is Tackles) and a bust #5 overall T.

Injuries have hurt us this year, yes. But we had arguably the worst line in the league at full health over the past 5 or 6 years or so. Now we have arguably the worst in history.

Graves & Grimm - time to go.

Whiz's hourglass is running out too.

The only people who should be safe in this organization right now are Larry and Horton

 

[MadCardDisease]

Graves has had years to fix the OL. He didn't.

This isn't about making trades midseason. This is about having tens of draft picks and offseasons to fix it. And what have we gotten? The Packers' and Niners' reject guards (when what really need is Tackles) and a bust #5 overall T.

I agree with this and have been say it for the last couple of years.

The Cards have ignored the OL over the last several years and are now paying the price for it. Three is No fix for it mid year. The Cards were fatally flawed at the position going into the pre-season and that flaw was exposed quickly.

 

[Bodha]

Im terrified of hwat we have to give up in order to get him.

Hes just a bandaid for this year, not a long term option. But Baltimore knows how hard up we are, they can ask for anything.


I dont think 1 upgrade at LT will make a difference on this year. Our offense is fubar.

 

[Stout]

Fair enough. I don't agree that you should go over a coaches head like that, but it is a plausible method of management and a course that Graves could take. There are no starters available, so faulting him for not doing something in that area is silly.

That's why I'm not ripping Graves for that

I don't want Graves to just immediately go over KW's head. I want him to tell KW that he has to get rid of Grimm and Miller, and the replacements have to have the autonomy to do their jobs properly. And, if KW feels that he won't let them go without going himself, I want Graves to fire him, because it is crystal clear that the staff needs to change. I just don't see Graves doing that.

 

[snowthedirtbub]

Is this considered baggage. Any decent strip clubbs in the desert?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/10/30/bryant-mckinnie-sued-trick-daddy-father/1668491/

Whats the hold up? Your telling me we can better our OL and increase money flowing to local business? Jesus Christ Graves GET ON THE PHONE!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Whats the hold up? Your telling me we can better our OL and increase money flowing to local business? Jesus Christ Graves GET ON THE PHONE!

Same hold up there was for Chris Williams.

They don't want to give up the draft picks, they will use on players that won't help the situation in any way.

Lose-lose situation.

If we had a pro-active front office our OT's could have been Chris Williams, and Bryant McKinnie after the bye week.

Chris Williams, would have taken, opening up the wallet, and McKinnie could probably be had for the Cardinals 3rd round bust pick.

With the worse case scenario of having McKinnie, Williams, Brown, and Massie going into camp next year. Oh, what a horrible problem !!!

 

[juza76]

Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider Hearing the Cardinals don't have interest in trading for Bryant McKinnie, move unlikely





GUESS THEY ARE VERY HAPPY TO STICK WITH BATISTA

 

[Brian in Mesa]

 

[CardsFan88]

I for one still think if Levi hadn't gone down, he would have been burned around the edge similarly as he was in previous years. Him being injured is worse than having him, but not by much...in the passing game.

Was he better than Batiste? Not in pass blocking very much. Run blocking yeah, I've always said that. Levi is a good run blocking tackle.

But in pass blocking he's not much better than Batiste. A couple less sacks at this point from his side? Well out of 39 sacks so far, what's a couple less? It's not like losing Levi had the effect of going from Orlando Pace in his prime to Batiste.

As for Batiste at Right tackle, as crappy as he's played, I'm not sold that he'd be adequate at right tackle. Bridges wasn't exactly doing a good job either. He was on the downside. I'd rather have him out there, but he looked as good as anyone else that was competing for that position. So his time looked about up.

I do lay blame at Rod Graves, because he is the general manager, and our pass blocking has been ignored in the draft and free agency for years. It's not just injuries, it's our talent even before or after injuries.

Now maybe we have Russ Grimm telling him not to draft people high or not pushing him to sign FA's, that he can turn any crap into gold, but aside from that, Rod Graves has not provided Grimm the talent to build a successful line.

I mean the blame lies somewhere, and it isn't 'injuries' that did it. I'm more of the mindset that the guys getting the players and ignoring certain positions, such as the OL, more or less, is to blame over the guy trying to coach crap into serviceable. I'm not sold on the scheme. I'm not sold in our response. But to start with you need to have NFL caliber OL'men, especially our tackles, and we don't.

I'm not a 'Rod Graves' basher about everything. I'll say when he makes good moves, or bad moves. The thing that sticks out and he owns it imo, is the decision whether it was FA or Draft, not to bring in quality OL, especially at the tackle positions.

I suspected that maybe Snyder was brought in so he could be a pulling guard. Otherwise the move made no sense to bring in a division rivals worst OL'men, and stats wise (while they aren't everything) one of the worst in football last year. We haven't seen much pulling, we've seen much sacking and little push in the run game from his responsibilities.

With a competent OL this team is easily playoff potential, perhaps championship potential. With this OL, we are a laughingstock. With Levi we're still a laughingstock potential OL, just like previous years. We did give up 54 sacks last year, even WITH Levi, and even WITH him finally doing better the last half the season. If he hadn't we'd probably have given up 60. He wasn't exactly doing great before his injury in preseason, even if it was meaningless preseason.

Even with Levi, I'm sure at this point of the season, he'd of given up a good number of sacks too. Sure he had a good 7 or 8 game stretch last season, but as we could see, the OL wasn't laughingstock bad the first four weeks of the season in terms of pass blocking. It was still bad, but not laughingstock. We were lucky teams weren't taking advantage, but in time they did again. Then it showed up again. We sure didn't run the ball very well.

We still gave up 54 sacks last year as a whole, and a good portion of those were Levi being burned around the corner. A major problem his whole career, and something that will probably plague him his whole career. When he comes back, guys will still burn right around him. I'm seeing the same thing without Levi as I saw with, just it's happening a little more often. But looks the same. Burned to the outside consistently, then gets in a funk overcompensates and gets burned on swim and spin moves to the inside. Just like Levi.

The signing was at a reasonable price, but I had hoped we'd switch him to RT, and if he doesn't work out there, then he's a backup with cut potential and not on a bad contract. A GM concerned with the OL wouldn't sign him and think it's settled, or even allow it to reach that point.

I've always given Graves credit where he deserves it, and lay blame on him when he doesn't. To me, the lack of focus on the OL and Kolb's contract were his worst moves.

I've always been understanding of trying to sign quality talent at cheaper prices as Graves would call it 'the patriots model', with the occasional splash we all wish would come as well. For trying to manage our cap decently, and not get ourselves in cap hell, etc. But the lack of attention on the OL is on someone's head. If not Graves, then who?

Then again also the Patriots model is to get as many draft picks through trades and compensatory picks as possible. So it's only partially the Patriots model.

Had Levi and Bridges not gone down, our OL still would have been imo #1 in sacks. It's basically what we've been with those guys. Usually #2.

Again in case anyone cares here's the top teams giving up sacks the last few years....and before Levi's 2nd half reprieve, it looked like it he was getting worse.

2010

1. Bears 56
2. Cardinals 50
3. Carolina 50
32. Giants 16

2011
1. Rams 55
2. Cardinals 54
3. Dolphins 52
32. Bills 23

2012 (8 games)
1. Cardinals 39
2. Packers 28
3. Bears 25
32. Giants 7

Alot of our sacks have been given up not just on the outside, but also our inside, by guys like Snyder, Colledge and Sendlein, etc.

Obviously our two best OL'men are Colledge and Sendlein, and Sendlein is a smart center, but overall these two guys aren't very good either. If they're your two weakest once the ball is snapped, you're line is probably good. If they're you're best, then you're screwed.

Levi, Bridges, Snyder, Batiste, Massie all suck. There's hope Massie improves, but the rest are pretty much set in stone. We're only pressed to start the rookie because none of our other players can step up. It was Brown who got injured. Had we upgraded the position, it doesn't mean whoever else was there would have gotten injured. So it's apples and oranges. Either way with or without Levi, our line would have been burned.

When Levi returns, sure he'll set the edge on run blocking, but on passing downs he'll get burned pretty regularly like he has the majority of his career. Lots of DE's had career days against Levi just like they are against Batiste. So it's beyond injuries with our line. We lost a guy who gets burned regularly, and replaced him with a guy who gets burned a tad more often than regularly.

But now it's not just our tackles, it's also our inside line play, and Graves just signed Adam Snyder this offseason.

Hopefully Massie, Potter, Kelemete work out, but overall this past 1/2 decade or more, even with Warner here, our line has been horrible at pass blocking. Just with Warner he could get rid of the ball way faster than an average QB because he was that good. He hid our deficiencies. We don't have that option now. Our pass blocking suckage, for the nth year in a row is on display.

Is it worse because of injuries? Yeah. Not by much though. Given the moves Graves did was to re-sign a LT that gets burned and contributed heavily in poor pass blocking since he came into the league, and signed Snyder who has also been a problem, I'd say yeah, with him being the GM, it's on him. Instead of 39 sacks, what would we have given up with Levi at LT and Batiste at RT...33 instead of 39? 30? Still a crappy number.

Still was going to get our QB killed. Would have gotten any QB killed. We have Koncussion Kolb. Still an obvious, glaring hole that Graves should have addressed, and given that reality we were afforded a 4-0 head start on the competition, we should have been busy trying to solidify our gains while playing with house money and brought someone in. Our situation is desperate, and we could have signed some people that were cut. Could of signed some guys after Levi went down. Could of swung a trade. Could of done other things the previous five years. The writing has been on the wall for years what speed rushers could do to us. We've been abnormally bad at it Whiz's whole tenure here. Levi or no Levi.

Helped Warner not stay on another year. Helped Manning choose another spot. Killed Kolb how many times now? Skelton. Gave Max Hall the Rosenbach treatment. Every QB here has been murdered from poor line play. How many QB's do we have to go through to figure it out. There's another one laying on the carpet. Dang, come offseason what should we do?

The #1 through #4 priority this offseason is....sign and high round draft players that can fix this, or at least give us a legitimate shot to, as nothing is certain. But Graves could focus on it for a change. Then I'll give him credit for that, like I have his other good moves.

 

[Duckjake]

Was he better than Batiste? Not in pass blocking very much. Run blocking yeah, I've always said that. Levi is a good run blocking tackle.

My biggest complaint with Brown was that after his initial block he would just quit playing. Which is why I call him Stand Around Levi Brown. I need to go back and watch a couple of the 2nd half games from 2011 to see if he was making a better effort and playing to the whistle.

I did watch some of the Patriots game last night. The Cards were blocking fairly well and no, they weren't holding and getting away with it. As somebody else mentioned in the last few days it seems like a weakness in our offensive line blocking scheme that wasn't caught before was picked up by Defenses after the Eagles game and it has been killing us ever since.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/03/mckinnie-grateful-he-wasnt-traded-to-arizona/

 

[MrYeahBut]

I've always given Graves credit where he deserves it, and lay blame on him when he doesn't. To me, the lack of focus on the OL and Kolb's contract were his worst moves.

.

HMMM, his worst moves.... how many others has he made? Isn't that enough to cost him his job? What else does he need to do? This isn't tiddly winks.



.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't think there's any denying that Graves has been, and continues to be, one of the 3 worst GM's in the league.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/03/mckinnie-grateful-he-wasnt-traded-to-arizona/

So he'd rather be a backup playing 18 snaps a game than being the starting LT in Arizona? And is grateful for it. He's a loser.

 

[Superfuzz]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/03/mckinnie-grateful-he-wasnt-traded-to-arizona/

Typical PFT trying to make a headline by twisting someone's words. That's not really what he said.

 

[Duckjake]

Typical PFT trying to make a headline by twisting someone's words. That's not really what he said.

That's exactly right. If McKinnie had said he'd love to have the chance to go to Arizona it would have been interpreted as a slam on the Ravens.