In defense of Mac, Graves, and the Cards

Tangodnzr

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I really mean no disrespect to any individual poster here, but some of this Mac, Graves, Bidwill, Cardinal in general bashing is just getting ridiculous in my estimation.
There's an old saying in golf...."Don't listen to advice from anyone who isn't a par shooter."
Everyone IS entitled to their own personal opinion, but just because someone has one doesn't make it right. I have a brother who often is fond of saying "opinions are like A-holes, everybody's got one."
From my viewpoint the majority...not all....of the negative criticism that I see here is from people who I wouldn't term "par shooters".
Many of them haven't proven anything themselves yet, other than they know how to post on a message board, yet they act as if they are successful business managers with a proven track record.
I'm not saying, don't post your opinion, after all that is "the point" of a message board. But, as often the case in so many things, it's the negative people who seem to be the most prolific "posters".
This post is my attempt to simply try and balance the scales a little.

Has anyone noticed the low profile Mac is taking right now?
And if you have, have you really given any serious thought to why that may be? People talk about "Dollar Bill" and what a cheap ignorant owner he is. When have any of you actually seen him being an active part in the Cards business recently?
All indications are that Michael has taken over the primary leadership of the organization. Things are not the same as they were 3 years ago, in fact, for those who really care to objectively look, there is very little about the present organization that is much like that of the past, other than SDS for the time being.
Even that will finally be changing before long.

Change doesn't happen overnight at the top levels of most business organizations, especially without actual ownership change. And even then there are limiting factors to be taken into account.

Some people have criticized the new coaching staff. I feel unjustifiably so and I will go into detail on that on another thread.
Suffice it to say that what I see happening is a group of intelligent men apparently working together as a team.
It is a proven fact that any business organiztion ultimately takes on the personality of the leadership characteristics of those who are the owner/managers/ leaders.

I don't see the promotion of Rod Graves as a slight to Dave McGinnis. I see the emergence of Michael Bidwill in the organization as a sign of progress and improvement. All indicating a willingness to indeed change and adapt.

Now is not the time for Mac to be taking center stage. I see no indication that Rod Graves is some ego maniac out to prove how inept Mac is/was and that he makes his decsions in an egomaniacal vacuum. I'd be willing to bet any amount that anyone cares to wager that Michael, Graves and Mac are in close communication with each other, discussing plans and any actions taken now are a consensus of them and even possibly others in the organization.

Why is it that some of you prefer to take the stance...."other people (namely "the Cards") are stupid until proven otherwise"??
Oh yeah, "50 years history blah, blah, blah". I've already addressed that weak argument. It all boils down to really nothing more than an excuse for a negative mindset. I don't buy it.

Have there been and will there be....mistakes made now and then?
Sure, but always focusing on them is a fools journey to me. Have a little faith. After all if faith is worthless then whats the use of a God?

I see no reason to panic as a Card fan. In fact I'm looking forward to next season, I at least feel comfortable in the fact that I do feel we have a generally good bunch of people actually working together to build a good team.

And that's my opinion.
 
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RedStorm

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Tango...

You are the Bizzaro(not meant as an insult) of this message board. Thanks for your opinion....:wave:
 

Mel Gray TD

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One playoff win in 50 years, constantly rebuilding, playing in a college stadium, leaving Chicago and St. Louis, firing Don Coryell, Gene Stallings, and Joe Bugel. NEED I SAY MORE!
 

ajcardfan

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I think I've finally found out what Bill Jr. does for this team. Tango is Bill Jr.! At last, it all makes sense! ;)
 

Ryanwb

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Forget rose colored glasses, you are living in a rose colored dome!
 

Stout

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Now that's not such a harsh statement. No one should rip you for posting your opinion. I am not and please do not take this as such.

Unfortunately, I take the opposite view of one of your main points. I am a Cardinal's pessimest. I feel there is no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. Why not? There is a new structure so we should give them a chance? Sure, I'll give them a chance. I won't have faith in them, however, until they show me something to give me faith.

I don't believe in blind faith. I'm not saying Graves is an instant failure. I'm saying he hasn't done anything to tickle my fancy. He made one mistake already, a big mistake, in mishandling the Boston situation, and I feel that's negatively impacting our FA efforts.

Can Graves rebound? Sure, it's possible. Will I have faith in this? No. I'll pray that we do get some good FAs, but I'll believe it when I see it. I see no reason to give Graves the benefit of the doubt.

Obviously, I'll wait and see what kind of team we field at training camp. I don't have any other choice, as a fan and poster. I'm just not going to smile and say, 'aw shucks, we'll be okay by training camp' when nothing's happening. If something does happen, I'll be the first to applaud. Until then, I'll remain pessimistic.

Again, this was not a shot at you. It was just my opinion, as your post was.
 

Ed B

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I respect your optimistic opinion completely. It is <b>you</b> who shows no respect for other people's opinions by constantly claiming that everything that isn't 100% positive about the team is wrong.

The historical argument is valid in the sense that this team has had dozens of "saviors" like Graves and i'm not going to believe he knows what he's doing until I see some results. What the hell is wrong with that? I'm wrong because I don't just blindly and unquestioningly believe this guys is gonna take us to the Super Bowl?

I have guarded optimisim in McGinnis and Graves but let's face it, we have dog meat at QB and WR right now and the team is apparently having a little difficulty luring big free agents here right now.

Could that change? Of course! Maybe we'll sign colvin tomorrow, who knows. If we do, I'll be the first to slap you a high five.

Everyone respects your constant "bright side", Tango. I might suggest you try to respect everyone else the same rather than taking the pedogogical "You're not a GM, what makes you think you know anything" attitude. Common sense says this team is in a bit of a bind right now, the general negativity is warranted until the team takes a positive step. When they do something positive, we'll be positive.
 
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Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by Mel Gray TD
One playoff win in 50 years, constantly rebuilding, playing in a college stadium, leaving Chicago and St. Louis, firing Don Coryell, Gene Stallings, and Joe Bugel. NEED I SAY MORE!

Please don't. You evidently are a perfect example of what I referred to in the "Blah, Blah,Blah," section of my post.
 

JeffGollin

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I think I've finally found out what Bill Jr. does for this team. Tango is Bill Jr.!
Tango makes more sense than 90% of the people who post on this board.

He may stick up for Mgt. more than I'd like. But Tango's posts are a lot closer to the truth than some of the zany stuff I see whizzing thru this bb.
 

Ed B

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Originally posted by JeffGollin

Tango makes more sense than 90% of the people who post on this board.

He may stick up for Mgt. more than I'd like. But Tango's posts are a lot closer to the truth than some of the zany stuff I see whizzing thru this bb.


I agree with this, but the tendency to insult everyone just because we don't all stand here with beams of sunshine radiating from our buttholes is pretty annoying.

Our starting WRs are Jason McAddley and Kevin Kasper right now. Don't ask me to be happy about it.
 
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Tangodnzr

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Ed, I don't claim that things are 100% rosy right now. Yes, I agree that we have a problem at QB at the moment. Will we by the time the season starts? I hope not, and I trust not.
Sorry if that offends you.
Certainly this team has problems that need addressing. But neither do I see the sky falling.
If you, or anyone else wants to be negative, have at it, you are indeed free to make your choices for yourself.
I will try not to be. And I will continue to counter the posts of those who are negative.
I'm not deserting the Cards ship.
Call me a homer if you want, tell me how I'm ignorantly looking through rose colored glasses, etc, etc, etc.
I will not bow to negativism, count on it, bank on it, and ****** about it all you want.
You will fight a battle of futility.
 
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Tangodnzr

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PS. I will indeed give you a high 5 when Colvin signs. :thumbup:
 

Ed B

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Ed, I don't claim that things are 100% rosy right now. Yes, I agree that we have a problem at QB at the moment. Will we by the time the season starts? I hope not, and I trust not.
Sorry if that offends you.


It offends me not in the slightest.

You lost me on the "trust not" part. I also "hope" that we will have things straightened out by Opening Day but right now, absolutely nothing has been done to address the team's problems.

Graves is unproven. The second he accomplishes something aside from smiling and sounding bright on TV, I'll give him credit for it, you mark my words.

If you have any doubt about my sincerity, look back at the positive threads I was making in bunches when we thought Stewart signed. Positive action from the team will always get a positive response. Positive talk from them doesn't. Anyone with lips can talk.
 

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I agree with Tango about Graves. There are posters that want to take him out in the desert and beat him to death with a rubber hose. The guy deserves some time.

On the other hand it is REAL hard as a fan to watch this team's management fail so often year after year. I have a little hope, but no faith, in a Bidwill led team. I sincerely hope you are right Tango.

There is one big bright spot this off season. We lost Jake and didn't have to give up anything to do it. :D
 

Russ Smith

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
PS. I will indeed give you a high 5 when Colvin signs. :thumbup:

He just did, with NEM )-:
 

BradMannTX

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Very thoughtful and well-balanced post. That was the most logical sentiment I've seen here in awhile.

Some of us are torn between rays of hope and alcoholism...I would agree that this is not the Cardinals of old. No matter what happens, it is ABSOLUTELY clear that this team is changing from the top down and the outcome of said change is still unproven. Maybe it's good, maybe it's worse, but it is clear that someone said, "hey, this, obviously, is not working."
 
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Tangodnzr

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Yes Ed, you did have some "good" things to say, in my opinion, and I posted several times how I agreed with your comments.

Especially in regard to Colvin.

Yes, I would have liked to seen him signed by the end of the week too. But he's obviously playing the market for every cent it's worth. Frustrating for us Card fans, but I can't say as I blame him. Hang in there, he could still very well be a Card, and I still think the odds do lie in our favor in landing him when the shopping spree is done.

Also don't you find it a little strange that Holliday and Okeafor haven't signed elsewhere yet either?
 

Ed B

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr


Also don't you find it a little strange that Holliday and Okeafor haven't signed elsewhere yet either?


No, I don't find it strange. Holliday's a bum and Okeafor is just OK but not even a real experienced starter let alone a star.
 

Stout

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Tango, Colvin's gone. Are you still optimistic? I'm not. Sure, I'll be pretty happy if we sign Okeafor and Holliday, but I won't be nearly as thrilled as if we had landed Colvin.
 

john h

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Originally posted by RedStorm
Tango...

You are the Bizzaro(not meant as an insult) of this message board. Thanks for your opinion....:wave:

Tango you are truly amaaaaaaazzzzzzzing-----
 
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Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by Stout
Tango, Colvin's gone. Are you still optimistic? I'm not. Sure, I'll be pretty happy if we sign Okeafor and Holliday, but I won't be nearly as thrilled as if we had landed Colvin.

I indeed would have liked to see him signed. But it ain't the end of the world. Life WILL go on.

It appears to me that he just jerked the Cards around, that's the part the bothers me the most.

And I don't necessarily blame the Cards for that.

Am I still optomistic? Yes, overall. Like a lot of others a little anxious at the moment, but I'm far, far from jumping ship.:thumbup:
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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for those of us pessimistic cards fans it's not about jumping ship, it's about viewing the cards with some objectivity and reality. my friends that are impartial fans of other teams contact me on a daily basis absolutely bewildered by the cardinals continued lack of any positive moves. those are OBJECTIVE views. not even the views of a frustrated fan who's been beaten down by this organization year in and year out!

it just amazes me that you're still gonna be confident and blindly trust an organization that has yet again lost out on the one FA that they talked up even before the post season (colvin). there is not a single player left on the market that can excite a cardinals fan. so, let's look at the big board:

Exciting players left the organizition: DBoston
Exciting players gained: NONE
Servicable players gained: hmm, NONE

tango, realistically, what record do you see this squad ending up at next season and on what do you base your projection?
 
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Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE

tango, realistically, what record do you see this squad ending up at next season and on what do you base your projection?
Realistically?
Ask me that question once training camp starts and we know for sure what the composition of the team is.
To try to make any predictions right now is totally foolish.
 

slanidrac16

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Tango...

I don't know how old you are but aside from that, I admire your optimism. However, I have watched this team for many, many years and our rebuilding system is 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

For instance, we are no longer in year 3 of Macs plan. We have moved on to Year 1 of the Rod Graves plan. We are a 5-11 team without a qb, wr, or a defense. We are 40mil under the cap and going into day 12 of free agency and have done nothing.

I love ya ,Tango. It wasn't long ago.....I was just like you.
 
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