If We Lose To Minnesota..........

[Cheesebeef]

^this

depends on if we actually have a GM who's respected and handed the keys to castle. if it's Rod Graves drafting him with some new handpicked coach, I wouldn't blame Luck one bit if this happened.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

depends on if we actually have a GM who's respected and handed the keys to castle. if it's Rod Graves drafting him with some new handpicked coach, I wouldn't blame Luck one bit if this happened.

I would trust Luck as a GM more than I would ever trust Graves, that's how bad he is.

 

[Buckybird]

We aren't *that* bad.

no we can't get that LUCKy...we've never had the #1 pick & the football gods aren't goona be the kind to us yet. You can pretty much bet with the saviour of the franchise in Indy(Manning) on his last breath you can bet they will get it for the 4th time.

Our Luck would be Andrew returning for his SR year if we owned the #1 pick Lol

 

[Russ Smith]

For whatever its worth, Kiper has Martin rated as the #6 prospect on his Big Board.

He is really good. The problem with Stanford OL's is it's hard to tell how good they are as pass blockers because that system is a running offense with a QB that seems to have an NFL level grasp of the game already.

It seems crazy with Luck but Stanford is a running team, they often play 2 even 3 TE's, so it's hard to say is Martin as good a pass blocker as his stats would indicate or is he that good because teams are so often in their run defense because of the multiple TE's on the field? or because Luck is so good at coming up to the LOS and picking which of the 3 plays they gave him to call.

The thing you like about martin is on a running team he's more known for his pass blocking than his run blocking. In that regard he's the opposite of levi who's a very good run blocker. Good athlete, seems to be a great kid.

Stanford actually has a few kids I'd love to have. I'm a huge Skov fan no idea how his knee will impact his decision to stay or go but he's a nice ILB prospect. And I love the safety Delano howell, he plays SS at Stanford but will probably be a FS in the NFL. He's about 200 pounds and a converted RB, so he's still getting better.

I think he's projected as a 3rd or 4th rounder but a real intriguing kid.

They don't have any pass rushing OLB that would fit our needs.

 

[CtCardinals78]

do not discount the 0-4 Indianapolis Colts....they need a Manning replacement

Who better to teach the next Peyton Manning than THE Peyton Manning. That said I think Luck is either the next QB of the Dolphins or the Cowboys. I give the slight edge to Dallas. I could very easily see them trading away their draft for Luck.

 

[TheHopToad]

The Cards should still take Luck if we have the first overall pick. He is that good.

Totally agree. Even if Kolb turns out to be very good, he will never be close to as great as Luck is going to be. Most experts agree that he is the next Manning, a once in 15 years QB. Take him if you have the chance and hope you can get even money back for Kolb.

 

[Duckjake]

This place has always been filled with "gloom birds" Save for a short stretch during the second coming of Kurt Warner... people use this place to vent frustration.. God knows it's saved my wife from a ton of bitching,
and for that, she thanks you all!

6-10,3-13,7-9,5-11,4-12,6-10,5-11,5-11,5-11,1-3.

Looking at those results I just can't understand why a Cardinal fans message board could be filled with doom and gloom except for the short stretch during the second coming of Warner.

 

[desertdawg]

This place has always been filled with "gloom birds" Save for a short stretch during the second coming of Kurt Warner... people use this place to vent frustration.. God knows it's saved my wife from a ton of bitching,
and for that, she thanks you all!

I read your post at work today and couldn't respond being the awesome employee I am and all, but I also got to think about it all day. My family too has benefited from my discovering this place , I exert a lot of my Cardinal energy (good and bad) in this mamma jamma. It's just friggin awesome to find so many that follow the same flock, always at the same place, talking about the same team.

I wasn't an ASFNer during the Kurt era, but I imagine it was hella fun up in here. I completely understand this place being a place to vent, ask the WTF! questions, and give our opinions to the same problems that seem to follow this team. But I for one see a new direction. I also see all the BS that gets mentioned 24-7 in here, I mean the Cardinal BS that we as fans have to stomach. Fustration runs through our veins, bizarre losses are our history, the fact that we made ot to the promise land a couple years ago (way to short and sweet) makes us jones like a junkie for a respectable game from start to finish...come on...just one game.

That hasn't happened yet this year, good effort/focus from both sides for a complete game start to finish.

Kolb has shown he can have himself a good ball game, but when he did we didn't run the rock and the defense was out of tune like a muthasucka (I actually say muthasucka in real life).

Defense, they are working on it, and it looks awful at times. The bootlegs that we allow without having an edge in there burns us often with the time we give up. The fact that we go prevent D when trying to hold a lead isn't new (and losing games because of it), but I thought I heard Horton say that wasn't going to happen anymore. Can't abandon what works, but it's still new and it does show glimpses, and I thought we were all gonna wait a while and see what happens on D. But I wish we stayed agressive during thos stents.

The running game..Beanie aint no joke. Add Beanie to the Chicken game and we are sitting at .500, even with the refs robbing us in our own house. Best run effort remember seing from the Cards in forever because we all I know I have short term memory. Everyone and their mama was anticipating good things from Williams, with the new Beanie 2 back set and Williams in there...our run game would be so good....even Whiz would run the ball. That injury really hurt.

The fire this guy, can that guy, bench the QB, I liked him last week but this week I can't stand him stuff bugs my little hippie head though. I can usually bounce whatever right off of me but it stings when the club is losing and folks dog pile with the obvious problems and then propose extremely agro so called solutions. I try and watch a game in here sometimes and on the first no gain, or if the other team gets a first, IT'S OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! The Luck thing just chaps my hide right now, 4 games in and I believe it started around the Chicken game to boot.

Teams fail before they can close, folks mention Schaub, Rodgers, both Manniings, Brady was a scrub, yadda yadda. I think last year wore a lot of fans down when it comes to QB performance, from Warner to DA/Hall/Skelton(who was ok for a rookie)/Bartel, I might even be missing someone (cough #7). We never really gave THESMELS QB a shot to tell you the truth, and this push up busting muthasucka sounds like he might have been right about the Beanster the whole time...#26 beat up on the "tough ass Giants".

Being that I said I was taking a break from the good people at ASFN, and now am probably working on my longest post ever (I know, what a *******!), I'd like to say that I was a loyal member of the darkside last year, I aint there this year. I still believe we can find our identity with this year, us fans already know what the team needs. We have like a dozen more games, no telling what happens. Probably more of the gut wrench style endings, that what a team does before it gets better, they get tired of losing and realize they can do it too.

Gonna be a long season, but if your looking for growth I think it will be easier to cope, if Whiz stays with his playcall (I don't understand why the Cards don't try and play to each QBs strengths, same game plan no matter who is taking the snap) then it's going to get worse IMO. We've had the same play call since I've been posting in here, unless Kolb is as smart as Warner was right now, the growing pains will come.

All I'm saying is this team is showing me some good stuff, points, heart, defense, and I haven't brought up the O-line or Grimm. I think our O-line isn't that bad, I think Grimm blows and our center is now the real coach and does what he thinks is best at the line, with the audibles being called. It was nice t see them gel, getting confidence from Beanies run game, they did so good at times...Kolb didn't realize it and still left the pocket, that was kinda funny.

We gotta whole year, if we make the playoffs I doubt we do any real damage but we will drop in the draft (that so many in here are worried about). Seattle sunk like a rock in the draft last year, and we need a few more pieces so if we don't make the playoffs this year I'm still akuna matada. We have a new QB, PP, Williams, Beanie looks for real, CC, DD, I could go on and on but I wouldn't put DRC in there if he were still here.

We got some work to do, short start, aint the same old Cards (even with Whiz and Graves). My main man, the new blood, Mad Mike wants a winner here in Az, and he will Bidwill when it comes to talent. For those who want to boot Graves, this is probably his best offseason ever. Wow this got long fast, guess I had some venting of my own, thanks yall.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Critics say a lot of things. Critics say Bradford was the most accurate passer they ever reviewed in the draft on the Sporting News. If we would draft Luck and then trade Kolb right away (if that happened), we could also go down as the most moronic franchise of all time- slam dunk if Luck does not pan out. Every draft pick for the most part is a gamble, especially the QB position

 

[Cheesebeef]

Critics say a lot of things. Critics say Bradford was the most accurate passer they ever reviewed in the draft on the Sporting News. If we would draft Luck and then trade Kolb right away (if that happened), we could also go down as the most moronic franchise of all time- slam dunk if Luck does not pan out. Every draft pick for the most part is a gamble, especially the QB position

why in the world would we trade Kolb immediately? you let Luck get his feet wet while Kolb ahs another season and then if you have two good QBs, you can get a bounty.

the only "most moronic move of all time" would be if Kolb somehow was bad or mediocre enough to be part of a team that got the first pick in the draft and then they DIDN'T take the most acclaimed QB since Peyton Manning.

that would be beyond moronic.

 

[conraddobler]

why in the world would we trade Kolb immediately? you let Luck get his feet wet while Kolb ahs another season and then if you have two good QBs, you can get a bounty.

the only "most moronic move of all time" would be if Kolb somehow was bad or mediocre enough to be part of a team that got the first pick in the draft and then they DIDN'T take the most acclaimed QB since Peyton Manning.

that would be beyond moronic.

I can see that happening.

You have to remember the dynamic of sitting there in the war room trying to explain why you paid 60 million dollars, a player and a pick for a guy good enough to land you the number one pick.

How do you trust the crew who just did that to you with that decision?

That group of people is going to be doing some major olympic tap dancing to try and avoid getting fired and would probably talk you out of picking Luck just so you wouldn't figure out how badly they all need fired.

Only this organization is both stupid enough to land there with a brand new QB they bought and then let the same people who did that control the next decision, and we can all see this exact scenario playing out if we got that pick.

Lucky for us it'll never happen.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can see that happening.

You have to remember the dynamic of sitting there in the war room trying to explain why you paid 60 million dollars, a player and a pick for a guy good enough to land you the number one pick.

How do you trust the crew who just did that to you with that decision?

That group of people is going to be doing some major olympic tap dancing to try and avoid getting fired and would probably talk you out of picking Luck just so you wouldn't figure out how badly they all need fired.

Only this organization is both stupid enough to land there with a brand new QB they bought and then let the same people who did that control the next decision, and we can all see this exact scenario playing out if we got that pick.

Lucky for us it'll never happen.

See anything is possible but the one good thing about the lockout is Andrew Luck's first contract is going to be about half what it would have been under the old CBA.

So a team like us that has a huge investment in Kolb can still draft a guy like Luck. yes it's a lot of money but it's far less than it would have been a year ago.

In the end if you believe Luck is going to be better than kolb, and I think everyone does, it's pretty tough to pass on Luck. The only way you do that is if someone just gives you some ridiculous offer like 2 starters in their prime , 2 #1 picks and a #2. But even then it's a risk because great QB's are worth so much in the NFL.

 

[chickenhead]

So a team like us that has a huge investment in Kolb can still draft a guy like Luck. yes it's a lot of money but it's far less than it would have been a year ago.

Great point. If we can draft Luck we do--it might even be manageable for a couple years.

But again, long odds and way to early to even think about it seriously. Teams are routinely "competing" for the #1 pick in week 17.

 

[oaken1]

See anything is possible but the one good thing about the lockout is Andrew Luck's first contract is going to be about half what it would have been under the old CBA.

So a team like us that has a huge investment in Kolb can still draft a guy like Luck. yes it's a lot of money but it's far less than it would have been a year ago.

In the end if you believe Luck is going to be better than kolb, and I think everyone does, it's pretty tough to pass on Luck. The only way you do that is if someone just gives you some ridiculous offer like 2 starters in their prime , 2 #1 picks and a #2. But even then it's a risk because great QB's are worth so much in the NFL.

I agree,...I would pick Luck under most circumstances,...but if some team managed to stockpile a buttload of picks and then offered something like two firsts and two seconds.........we are looking at getting starting OT's and OLB's...AND their backups........would make me think real hard on the right course of action......

not an issue in Cards land though....we always win that last meaningless game that takes us out of the top pick......something to build on for next year....momentum to carry into next season....all that stuff.

 

[john h]

...........we'll be in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. We'll then have 11 games to figure out if KK is a playoff type QB, and whether we want to keep him or trade him back to Philadelphia (since Michael Vick can't stay healthy) or somewhere else. And if we keep KK we should be able to get tremendous value for the number one overall pick.

The bad news is that Andre Roberts, our #2 WR, will score his only TD for the year in our final game, on a long pass from John Skelton, that costs us the worst record. It goes to...................................the Seattle Seahawks.

The really, really bad news is that we'll never lose to the Vikings.

We now have so much invested in our QB I seriously doubt we would take Luck even if he were there when we drafted. He will cost a fortune and Kolb has a contract that is not cheap. Mr. Bidwill is not going to pay big money to two QBs at the same time. We hitched our wagon to Kolb for better or worse and that has yet to be determined.

 

[conraddobler]

We now have so much invested in our QB I seriously doubt we would take Luck even if he were there when we drafted. He will cost a fortune and Kolb has a contract that is not cheap. Mr. Bidwill is not going to pay big money to two QBs at the same time. We hitched our wagon to Kolb for better or worse and that has yet to be determined.

This is what losing organizations do.

Most teams, most winning teams would never get the pick anyhow but if somehow they did, even if I had Tom Brady, I'd probably take Luck if he was there.

That's how important a QB is to your team.

At one point in time the 49ers had Steve Young and Joe Montana on their team and no one thought this was dumb.

The money issue only matters so much, why else are we always saving cap room if we can't pull the trigger on this?

I don't doubt that you're right that's how we'll approach the decision, which again I don't think we'll have to make, I'm just saying the fact we think like that is the problem.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

If Cards lose to Minnesota I dont think Whis makes it past mid season, for the team will most likely have its second 6+ game losing streak in two seasons.

 

[conraddobler]

If Cards lose to Minnesota I dont think Whis makes it past mid season, for the team will most likely have its second 6+ game losing streak in two seasons.

I don't see how we're going to lose that game.

You would almost have to try to lose to the Vikes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't see how we're going to lose that game.

You would almost have to try to lose to the Vikes.

when there's a will, there's a way. I'm sure it will be just as awful as last year's game when we had a 10 point lead with 3 minutes left against an awful Vikes team... held them on fourth and goal with 3 minutes left up 10... then still lost.

 

[Duckjake]

I'll tell you what, going 6-16 in their last 22 games is going to put some real heat on several people. It will be just business as usual for us long suffering fans.

 

[kerouac9]

See anything is possible but the one good thing about the lockout is Andrew Luck's first contract is going to be about half what it would have been under the old CBA.

So a team like us that has a huge investment in Kolb can still draft a guy like Luck. yes it's a lot of money but it's far less than it would have been a year ago.

In the end if you believe Luck is going to be better than kolb, and I think everyone does, it's pretty tough to pass on Luck. The only way you do that is if someone just gives you some ridiculous offer like 2 starters in their prime , 2 #1 picks and a #2. But even then it's a risk because great QB's are worth so much in the NFL.

But there's an opportunity cost there, too. Even with a lower contract value, the pressure to start Patrick Peterson (not just play him, but start him) was immense. That's when three and even for CBs take the field regularly in the NFL.

It's not just Luck or Kolb anymore than it was Kolb or Derek Anderson/Max Hall/John Skelton/Alex Smith/whatever. It's Luck or Kolb/Top Shelf OT or rush linebacker. The problem with the Kolb trade is if we're awful this season (like Top 5 pick awful--which I still don't really see happening), we have the opportunity to draft Luck, but we also pass on the opportunity to get either an impact tackle or pass rush specialist. We don't have a 2nd round pick thanks to the Kolb deal, which means that we're going to have to choose between an impact player at either position, because even early in the 3rd we're looking at a guy who isn't starting unless there's an injury.

Instead right now people have to be hoping for a deep draft class that's also top-heavy with elite prospects and we can trade down enough to pick up a second but still get an impact tackle (likelier at that position than at a rush linebacker position).

I was saying this offseason that I'd rather be below-average with Alex Smith or Matt Hasselback or Kyle Boller or whomever and still have the opportunity to get Luck/Landry/Barkley/Foles in the draft, but I was shouted down by people telling me that the NFC West was a lock if we got Kolb. That doesn't seem to be the case right now, and now the plan seems to be hope that we get better or hope that we can trade down.

Hope isn't a plan.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But there's an opportunity cost there, too. Even with a lower contract value, the pressure to start Patrick Peterson (not just play him, but start him) was immense. That's when three and even for CBs take the field regularly in the NFL.

the pressure to start him wasn't because he was a high pick... it was because we literally had no one at CB to play the position due to injury and horrible FA signings.

It's not just Luck or Kolb anymore than it was Kolb or Derek Anderson/Max Hall/John Skelton/Alex Smith/whatever. It's Luck or Kolb/Top Shelf OT or rush linebacker. The problem with the Kolb trade is if we're awful this season (like Top 5 pick awful--which I still don't really see happening), we have the opportunity to draft Luck, but we also pass on the opportunity to get either an impact tackle or pass rush specialist. We don't have a 2nd round pick thanks to the Kolb deal, which means that we're going to have to choose between an impact player at either position, because even early in the 3rd we're looking at a guy who isn't starting unless there's an injury.

Instead right now people have to be hoping for a deep draft class that's also top-heavy with elite prospects and we can trade down enough to pick up a second but still get an impact tackle (likelier at that position than at a rush linebacker position).

I was saying this offseason that I'd rather be below-average with Alex Smith or Matt Hasselback

um, no... you wanted no part of Hasselback and slammed me every time I brought him up K9. that's complete revisionist history. that's the way i thought we should have gone and it looks like the old man has the gas left in his tank that I thought he did. The team needed a leader, a guy who's won before and played with pressure. That's what Hasselback was, showing glimpses here and there during the season on an awful team and then playing great ball when the lights were brightest in the playoffs.

 

[kerouac9]

the pressure to start him wasn't because he was a high pick... it was because we literally had no one at CB to play the position due to injury and horrible FA signings.

It was in part because he was a high pick. I have little doubt that if Greg Toler were healthy, Peterson would still be a part time player and Jefferson would be starting across from him.

Talking heads on the radio here were asking aloud whether something was wrong with Peterson as a player because he was buried so deeply on the depth charter through the preseason.

um, no... you wanted no part of Hasselback and slammed me every time I brought him up K9. that's complete revisionist history. that's the way i thought we should have gone and it looks like the old man has the gas left in his tank that I thought he did. The team needed a leader, a guy who's won before and played with pressure. That's what Hasselback was, showing glimpses here and there during the season on an awful team and then playing great ball when the lights were brightest in the playoffs.

Fair enough. Hasselback was at the bottom of my QB wish list. His resurgence is compelling. He was awful last year. He's been remarkable this year.

Honestly, though, Hasselback is at his best when he's protected by a good offensive line, and they have a good one in Tennessee. I'm not sure that Matt would get along with the coaching staff here or that he'd last long taking the hits that Anderson/Hall/Anderson/Skelton/Bartel/Kolb have been taking the last year and a quarter.

Hasselback is 3rd in Football Outsiders' QB ratings right now. Kolb is 23rd. But, you know, Kolb put up gaudy numbers against Carolina in Week 1. We can keep talking about that, right?

Football Outsiders ranks Kolb behind Chad Henne, Alex Smith, and Rex Grossman.

EDIT: I do challenge you to find a place where I said that I'd rather give up a king's ransom for Kolb than run with Hasselback. I thought there were better options available than Hasselback, but it's not like I said that I'd rather have McNabb than him.

 

[conraddobler]

I'll tell you what, going 6-16 in their last 22 games is going to put some real heat on several people. It will be just business as usual for us long suffering fans.

I will say this about ownership, Michael is a real ray of hope, what good has been done on this team has been done by him.

Him being in charge is the only thing that gives me any hope that anything will ever change.

Hire a GM and let them run the team.

That means they fire who they want to fire, all the way down to the waterboy, only ownership is above them and they mostly just show up at the games.

Try that one out.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

What if the Cards drafted Justin Blackmon instead of Luck at 1